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02:42:15 <GizmoBot> ChrisMorgan is a PortableApps.com developer and moderator
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03:18:18 <ChrisMorgan> Hmm... it's just occurred to me that Live mode isn't really so terribly good in some situations as it will do drive letter updates - but not directory moving as is a problem with Songbird and others
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04:21:45 <ChrisMorgan> Hello, pa_0803!  Can we help you at all?
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04:25:07 <WastePotato> ._.
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04:36:43 <GizmoBot> computerfreaker is working on KidSafe and TopOCR, and would very much like to have folks test them and give feedback
04:36:57 <computerfreaker> Hi guys!
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04:46:13 <ChrisMorgan> Hey computerfreaker
04:48:01 <computerfreaker> Hi ChrisMorgan!
04:48:28 <computerfreaker> How are you doing?
04:49:05 <ChrisMorgan> Fine.
04:49:31 <ChrisMorgan> Just committed some more changes to
04:49:41 <ChrisMorgan> http://portableapps.hg.sourceforge.net/hgweb/portableapps/launcher/
04:50:11 <ChrisMorgan> I have achieved total backwards-incompatibility, which is a great thing ;-)
04:50:35 <computerfreaker> backwards-incompatibility, exactly what most people dread :P
04:50:57 <computerfreaker> is that the universal launcher?
04:51:00 *** ZachThibeau is now known as ZachT|ZzZz
04:51:07 <ChrisMorgan> Yep
04:51:12 <computerfreaker> nice!
04:53:03 <computerfreaker> How will the launcher work? I'm curious.
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04:55:33 <ChrisMorgan> computerfreaker: take a look at the thread from Chris's PortableApps.com Launcher Test
04:55:38 <ChrisMorgan> I'm just going on with that
04:56:01 <computerfreaker> This thread?
04:56:02 <computerfreaker> http://portableapps.com/node/19188
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04:58:56 <ChrisMorgan> Yep
04:59:16 <computerfreaker> cool, I'm looking it over right now
05:15:05 <computerfreaker> aaahhhh!
05:15:21 <computerfreaker> Just found a nasty bug in my TopOCR launcher
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05:17:58 <GizmoBot> Chazz is the awesome developer of Bash Portable http://portableapps.com/node/20277 and GEdit Portable! (And Gnumeric Portable) :D
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05:18:52 <ChrisMorgan> Tut tut
05:20:59 <ChrisMorgan> There, got languages into the launcher as well
05:21:28 <computerfreaker> ChrisMorgan: how long should I wait before it's acceptable to publish an online installer for a long-dead freeware app /without the author's permission/?
05:21:52 <ChrisMorgan> computerfreaker: depends on where you are
05:21:56 <ChrisMorgan> Generally, 75 years.
05:22:09 <computerfreaker> wow...
05:22:42 <ChrisMorgan> If you use its branding anyway.  Generally though you're fine to do online installers without permission so long as the license doesn't forbid use of the name at all or trademark issues.
05:22:58 <computerfreaker> the app has been dead for 7 years already; I sent the programmer an e-mail about two weeks ago, requesting permission, but nothing back (no surprise there)
05:22:58 <ChrisMorgan> Otherwise, the period of copyright or trademark or whatever it happens to be which is the issue.
05:25:05 <computerfreaker> From the readme: "Copyright (c) 2000, 2002 Mirek Wójtowicz, Lublin, Poland
05:25:05 <computerfreaker> All rights reserved.
05:25:05 <computerfreaker> MWSnap is free for both commercial and non-commercial use.
05:25:05 <computerfreaker> You are free to put this program on a CD-ROM, but if you do so
05:25:05 <computerfreaker> please send me a notification (and a copy of the CD, if possible.)
05:25:05 <computerfreaker> And of course spread this program complete with all files."
05:25:46 <computerfreaker> shoot, sorry about the multiple lines; I copy & pasted directly from the readme
05:27:22 <computerfreaker> Judging by the contents of the readme, I'm probably OK
05:30:39 <ChrisMorgan> Does it say anything about altering it?
05:30:44 <computerfreaker> no
05:30:57 <ChrisMorgan> Then from what you've pasted you should be fine distributing it.
05:32:09 <computerfreaker> just looked through the entire readme and most of the help file, and there is /no/ mention of altering it
05:33:24 <computerfreaker> well, thanks for your advice! I'm going to upload it tonight
05:34:04 <ChrisMorgan> Make sure you explain it in your page so that no-one jumps on you for distributing it
05:34:11 <computerfreaker> ok
05:34:13 <ChrisMorgan> And then don't bother with it being an online installer, of course
05:34:24 <computerfreaker> just include the files?
05:35:33 <ChrisMorgan> Yep
05:35:43 <computerfreaker> cool, thanks!
05:35:48 <computerfreaker> life just got somewhat simpler
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05:40:58 * ChrisMorgan wonders exactly what running from a UNC path does to one of our applications
05:41:16 <ChrisMorgan> I've never studied how ${GetRoot} works with UNC paths
05:41:27 <ChrisMorgan> It's sure to break things though.
05:43:34 <computerfreaker> I don't think it will, actually
05:43:43 <ChrisMorgan> It will.
05:44:06 <ChrisMorgan> Most things check for it with a trailing / or \ after the X: which is returned by GetRoot
05:44:19 <computerfreaker> oh
05:44:22 <ChrisMorgan> Also many applications won't work with UNC paths
05:44:38 <computerfreaker> I was just looking at the GetRoot call, and it seems to work ok with UNC paths
05:44:40 <ChrisMorgan> So I've put in a stop sign in the PortableApps.com Launcher for UNC paths.
05:44:53 <computerfreaker> hadn't thought about other apps trying to do stuff with the GetRoot results
05:44:54 <ChrisMorgan> It's how it's used in ${ReplaceInFile} that I was more worried about
05:45:25 <ChrisMorgan> So it just tells you to map the path to a drive letter and try again
06:04:40 <computerfreaker> Does the PortableApps.com Installer support Unicode filenames? The Installer keeps crashing while trying to build my files-included version of MWSnap - one of the files has a Unicode name
06:12:00 <ChrisMorgan> computerfreaker: not possible with NSISu
06:12:05 <ChrisMorgan> s/with/without/
06:12:15 <computerfreaker> ok
06:12:17 <ChrisMorgan> You're stuck then.  You can't do it with PAI.
06:12:23 <computerfreaker> so should I just use an online installer? That works
06:12:32 <ChrisMorgan> It does?  It shouldn't :-/
06:12:45 <computerfreaker> I think it works because 7-Zip can handle Unicode?
06:12:48 <ChrisMorgan> What crashes?  Do you ever get to see the message?
06:12:53 <computerfreaker> yes
06:12:58 <ChrisMorgan> Which line of code?
06:13:15 <computerfreaker> oh wait, I think we're talking about different things
06:13:24 <computerfreaker> in the build process, the local installer fails
06:13:25 <ChrisMorgan> probably :D
06:13:37 <ChrisMorgan> I think it should be able to be fixed with an 8.3 path.  That's how it's meant to handle them, obviously we're dealing with it in a slightly different way
06:13:39 <ChrisMorgan> Which OS?
06:13:44 <computerfreaker> Windows XP
06:14:00 <ChrisMorgan> I've got to go for a while now to feed a friend's dogs.  More work on the launcher repository after, I expect.
06:14:14 <ChrisMorgan> OK, sounds like a minor ("ish") code problem.
06:14:22 <computerfreaker> the filename is meant to be espa(accented N)ol.bmp, but the accented N throws the PAI
06:14:32 <computerfreaker> I'll just do an online installer for now
06:14:51 <computerfreaker> bye, Chris! Thanks for all the help!
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06:38:09 <pa_9759> Spam:http://portableapps.com/node/22225#comment-140471
06:38:33 <computerfreaker> I just flagged that as spam, too
06:38:45 <computerfreaker> I literally hit the submit button as you came in
06:38:56 <pa_9759> :)
06:39:03 <computerfreaker> :)
06:39:21 <pa_9759> Ciao
06:39:26 <computerfreaker> bye!
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06:39:46 <computerfreaker> I should go too, I have a lot of stuff waiting for me
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07:03:55 <ChrisMorgan> Thanks, spam deleted and user blocked.
07:04:03 <ChrisMorgan> And another very similar one Steve picked up earlier
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09:09:10 <ChrisMorgan> Hmm... I'm sure it would help if PortableApps.comLauncher.nsi could compile.
09:09:27 <ChrisMorgan> Moral of the story: try compiling it before committing rather than just working on it without testing it
09:10:45 <ChrisMorgan> Macros with the wrong number of arguments, forgetting to define a variable, ... silly me!
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09:16:23 <JohnTHaller> heyo
09:17:07 <ChrisMorgan> And seeing as I'll be needing !searchparse some time soon, now seems a good time to get NSIS Portable 2.46... !searchparse is broken in 2.45.
09:17:21 <ChrisMorgan> I think I'll publish PAL1PA1 nowish
09:17:26 <JohnTHaller> PA.c Platform 1.6 Beta 2 has been posted: http://portableapps.com/node/22341#comment-140480
09:17:38 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: do you want me to test it on Wine?
09:17:48 <JohnTHaller> I did :-)  But please do as well
09:19:03 <JohnTHaller> and now I should sleep/  it's 4:20am
09:19:16 <ChrisMorgan> Incidentally you have your "redirect don't right click" links... they all download properly with wget :-)
09:20:04 <ChrisMorgan> Is your "known issue" about slow tray icon in Wine still true?
09:20:18 <JohnTHaller> Oops nope
09:20:32 <ChrisMorgan> Goodnight John.
09:21:04 <JohnTHaller> Gnight man
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09:49:09 <kangarooo> i put a picture in portable apps platform in top right corner. how to remove it?
09:57:25 <ChrisMorgan> kangarooo: take a look in X:\PortableApps\PortableApps.com\Data
09:57:33 <ChrisMorgan> There should be a picture in there somewhere, not sure where
09:57:57 <ChrisMorgan> Delete that and it should stop
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09:59:02 <kangarooo> yes thx :) maybe when theres picture put then clicking it will ask do you want to remove it?
09:59:17 <Duke_> Hi
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10:03:17 <ChrisMorgan> Uh oh... site offline
10:04:25 <ChrisMorgan> kangarooo: I've never thought about it myself... but I think it's probably easier on the user to just leave it as it is.  Possibly it could have a context menu with an item "Remove personal picture".
10:04:36 <ChrisMorgan> ... and we're back
10:17:32 <kangarooo> ok thats a good idea but it should come from when clicked on picture
10:21:36 <ChrisMorgan> I don't think so
10:27:26 <kangarooo> sad for all users wholl try picture adding option and will want to later remove it
10:28:16 <ChrisMorgan> Right click would be enough
10:28:59 <ChrisMorgan> Personally I think it could be more useful if left click did nothing at all and right click has "Choose picture..." and also "Remove picture" when there is one there
10:29:05 <kangarooo> aaah its now working already :D i dint understand at first :D thx
10:29:39 <ChrisMorgan> For the moment though, you'll just have to delete the picture manually
10:30:13 <kangarooo> no i just added again picture with left click and removed picture with right click
10:30:28 <ChrisMorgan> Oh, right click does remove it does it?
10:30:39 <kangarooo> yes
10:30:40 <ChrisMorgan> OK, didn't know that.  Looks like John thought of everything.
10:31:17 <kangarooo> of course thats logical and better :) but maybe when there is picture maybe the same button would be better
10:33:36 <kangarooo> im using portable apps all the time but 1 week ago usb flash weared out and i had some bad blocks witch made files to 4.0 kb :( and usb wears out as i found out from writing not reading so programms who write a lot makes it faster dead. so pidgin better use is when its not making log files and by default portable pidgin does so thats bad.
10:35:36 <kangarooo> a little help is when right click in my computer on flash disk properties hardware select usb properties policies optimize for performance then it makes les writes and works more on ram but removal strongly only with eject so last writes are made
10:36:17 <kangarooo> also formating to ntfs makes les writes and format to ntfs if not immidiatly then its possible after making that policy
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10:47:23 <GizmoBot> Gizmokid2005 is working on KVIrc Portable: http://portableapps.com/node/18626 and RSSOwl Portable: http://portableapps.com/node/19271
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10:59:47 <ChrisMorgan> kangarooo: NTFS will make it use the disk more.
11:00:59 <ChrisMorgan> And drives tend to die /if/ they'll die.  To a large extent they tend to fail irrelevant of heaviness of usage; most disks never really die at all but rather fade into obscurity and are forgotten or lost.
11:01:07 <ChrisMorgan> Bye now, I'm off for the night.
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11:06:40 <kangarooo> ntfs with that policy will make les writing ChrisMorgan
11:10:13 <sar3th> ChrisMorgan: ntfs with that policy will cache all write processes to your harddiskuntil you use "safe hardware removal" to eject the drive. the downside of this is that if you pull the drive out without safely removing it, you will lose the new data
11:11:04 <kangarooo> so no writing to drive so its better
11:12:06 <kangarooo> also for small files and many as portable apps its better to use ntfs as it reads many small files faster then any fat. fat is only good for large files. my own experience and i read it also
11:13:12 <sar3th> fat supports files up to 2gb if i recall correctly, ntfs doesn't limit filesize, so for really large files, ntfs is better ;)
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12:50:13 <pa_2653> Just a heads up.  Our school antivirus solution - McAfee Enterprise is registering positive for the Artimis virus on the Blender and ConvertAll portable apps.
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12:51:41 <pa_2653> Hi!  Anybody out there?
12:52:05 <sar3th> yes pa_2653
12:52:15 <pa_2653> :-)
12:52:20 <sar3th> pa_2653: please read this: http://portableapps.com/support#false_positive :)
12:52:33 <pa_2653> Thank you
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13:52:19 <Hojsn> Hi everyone
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15:16:04 <card.freenode.net> Topic for #portableapps is: Welcome to the PortableApps.com support channel. Visit us at http://portableapps.com/ | If you need assistance, just say "help!", or ask your question, and WAIT rather than just leaving. | This channel is logged: http://nascent-project.org/irc/logs | The #PortableApps IRC rules are here: http://gizmokid2005.com/paircrules Read and abide by them.
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16:41:41 <JohnTHaller> hola
16:42:25 <sar3th> welcome JohnTHaller :)
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16:48:40 <JohnTHaller> everyone test 1.6?
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17:08:27 <Gizmokid2005> hello JohnTHaller
17:08:28 <Gizmokid2005> nope.
17:11:28 <JohnTHaller> try it :-P
17:12:23 <Gizmokid2005> You took out my themes. NO! :P
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17:13:19 <CF|AFK> Hi guys!
17:13:21 <CF|AFK> Hi John!
17:13:32 *** CF|AFK is now known as computerfreaker
17:13:53 <JohnTHaller> hi.  try 1.6
17:13:59 <computerfreaker> sure, will do
17:14:20 <computerfreaker> Anything specific you want me to check?
17:15:08 <JohnTHaller> just look for bugses
17:15:15 <computerfreaker> ok
17:15:36 <computerfreaker> just found what could be a bug - in the installer, there's no default folder
17:15:37 <JohnTHaller> Gizmokid2005: they're just disabled by hiding the menu.   they'll be back in 1.6 beta 3.1 later today.
17:15:47 <JohnTHaller> It's supposed to install to root.
17:15:56 <computerfreaker> oh, ok
17:16:17 <Gizmokid2005> JohnTHaller: then I'll try it then :P
17:16:50 <computerfreaker> hum, the tray icon is a bit unpredictable
17:17:28 <computerfreaker> double-clicking the tray icon shows, then quickly hides, the menu
17:18:26 <Gizmokid2005> computerfreaker: yes...one click to show, one click to hide...
17:20:00 <computerfreaker> actually, it's one click to show and a double-click to hide, at least on my system
17:20:06 <computerfreaker> Windows XP Pro, SP3
17:20:13 <Gizmokid2005> not for me.
17:20:18 <JohnTHaller> actuall;y, the tray icon isn't used to hide.  clicking anywhere but the menu is used to hide
17:20:31 <computerfreaker> JohnTHaller: that's working
17:20:32 <Gizmokid2005> JohnTHaller: not for me.
17:20:39 <Gizmokid2005> but I think I have "KeepVisible=True"
17:20:43 <JohnTHaller> you do
17:21:07 <JohnTHaller> which actually hasn';t been tested in 1.6
17:21:13 <JohnTHaller> and may not work right
17:22:03 <Gizmokid2005> why'd you go and break it?
17:22:22 <computerfreaker> not sure if you can detect what kind of device the Platform is running on, but you might want to have the Eject button hidden when running from a hard drive
17:22:37 <computerfreaker> Other than that, everything looks good
17:22:57 <Gizmokid2005> JohnTHaller: so 1.6B2 is the latest?
17:23:54 <JohnTHaller> yes
17:24:06 <JohnTHaller> i'm packaging it to ship as 1.6 now, actually
17:24:11 <JohnTHaller> eject won'
17:24:33 <JohnTHaller> eject wont eject, just close, if you're running it from your Windows HD
17:24:46 <sar3th> that is reasonable
17:25:02 <computerfreaker> just tested Eject and you're right
17:25:31 <computerfreaker> Everything looks good, John
17:25:33 <computerfreaker> Nice work!
17:27:54 <computerfreaker> btw, could I talk to you for a few minutes?
17:28:02 <Gizmokid2005> JohnTHaller: doing an upgrade from the 2.0b3 blows away all the favorites.
17:28:10 <Gizmokid2005> well...maybe that was my fail...
17:28:29 <JohnTHaller> it doesn't anymore.  not from 2.0b3 to 1.6b2.  but 1.6b1 did blow them away
17:28:48 <Gizmokid2005> I forgot I renamed my current menu
17:28:50 <Gizmokid2005> trying again
17:29:43 <Gizmokid2005> yep, you broke remain visible
17:30:05 <JohnTHaller> May just ditch it anyway.  It's a kinda silly option.
17:30:14 <JohnTHaller> So, lemme guess, it's stuck visible.
17:30:14 <Gizmokid2005> why?
17:30:17 <Gizmokid2005> Yep.
17:30:24 <Gizmokid2005> I use it because I launch multiple apps at once.
17:30:24 <JohnTHaller> It's a menu.  You click something, it goes away.
17:30:27 <Gizmokid2005> then close it when I'm done.
17:30:34 <Gizmokid2005> and i HATE that about the winstart menu
17:31:04 <JohnTHaller> So with RemainVisible is it stuck visible?
17:31:07 <Gizmokid2005> Yes
17:31:12 <JohnTHaller> Right click the icon
17:31:22 <Gizmokid2005> yes?
17:31:26 <JohnTHaller> did it go away?
17:31:28 <Gizmokid2005> brings up the right-click menu
17:31:32 <Gizmokid2005> nope
17:31:33 <JohnTHaller> Ah right
17:31:45 <Gizmokid2005> even the key combo doesn't fix it
17:32:41 <JohnTHaller> Hmm... thought that would
17:32:52 <Gizmokid2005> granted, for my purposes i /could/ use the start at launch feature...but then if I shutdown the menu and then relaunch it tries to relaunch all the apps even though I didn't shut them down
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17:36:07 <Gizmokid2005> JohnTHaller: the languages menu doesn't scroll either by mouse wheel or just hovering over an arrow, you have to click it to get it to scroll
17:37:02 <JohnTHaller> That's a Windows thing :-(
17:41:08 <Gizmokid2005> Wasn't sure, but I figured I'd tell you
17:41:19 <computerfreaker> JohnTHaller: could I please talk to you for a few moments? Nothing essential, but something you might be interested in
17:41:36 <JohnTHaller> too busy
17:41:40 <computerfreaker> ok
17:41:44 <JohnTHaller> packaging 1.6
17:41:50 <computerfreaker> cool!
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18:13:25 *** SteveLamerton (n=kvirc@host-137-205-68-076.res.warwick.ac.uk) has joined #portableapps
18:14:04 <computerfreaker> Hi SteveLamerton!
18:14:39 <SteveLamerton> Hi computerfreaker, Gizmokid2005, JohnTHaller, MaienM, all
18:14:53 <Gizmokid2005> Hello SteveLamerton
18:16:16 <JohnTHaller> steve get my email?
18:16:18 <JohnTHaller> brb
18:16:55 <SteveLamerton> Yes, cheers John, all ordered, should arrive next thursday ;)
18:19:09 <SteveLamerton> Right then #portableapps people, I have a request, if you guys could take a look through my presentation for FOSDEM I would be most grateful, you can grab it here: http://drop.io/pacfosdem10
18:20:38 <computerfreaker> downloading it right now, SteveLamerton
18:20:45 <SteveLamerton> Thanks computerfreaker
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18:22:39 <computerfreaker> Page 2, "Continues to work as you move computers" sounds a trifle awkward IMHO; perhaps "Continues to work as you move from computer to computer" or "Continues to work as you switch computers"?
18:23:07 <SteveLamerton> Ok, switched :)
18:25:58 <computerfreaker> Looks good, Steve!
18:26:12 <computerfreaker> I especially like the screenshots
18:26:39 <SteveLamerton> Thanks computerfreaker, I tried to break it up a bit, lots of bullet points gets dull ;)
18:26:55 <MaienM> hello SteveLamerton :)
18:26:58 <MaienM> taking a look now
18:27:00 * computerfreaker wishes he could make it to FOSDEM
18:27:43 <SteveLamerton> Thanks MaienM
18:27:48 <SteveLamerton> computerfreaker: Where abouts are you?
18:28:08 <computerfreaker> Generally, I'm in the USA
18:28:08 <MaienM> hehe, nice installer screenshots SteveLamerton :D
18:28:11 <computerfreaker> it varies
18:28:24 <SteveLamerton> computerfreaker: Ahh ok :)
18:28:31 <SteveLamerton> MaienM: I thought you would like them ;)
18:30:24 <MaienM> looking good SteveLamerton :)
18:31:03 <MaienM> isn't the menu called the platform though nowadays?
18:31:29 <MaienM> or is the platform the whole mix of things?
18:31:39 <SteveLamerton> I believe it'll be recorded as well :O And I thought the menu was really part of the platform along with the other bits and pieces
18:31:46 <MaienM> kinda confusing since the PAM is now the PAP.....
18:31:55 <MaienM> I'm not sure really
18:32:10 <MaienM> lets ask JohnTHaller, he might know ;)
18:32:52 <SteveLamerton> Not changing it much now :P
18:33:35 <MaienM> nah, after reading it again the separation between the menu and the platform makes sense
18:34:05 <MaienM> I guess I just got confused since they are used interchangeably most of the time ;)
18:34:30 <SteveLamerton> Yeah, I know exactly what you mean!
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18:43:00 <SteveLamerton> Gizmokid2005: Any chance you could take a look?
18:43:28 <Gizmokid2005> checking SteveLamerton
18:43:34 <SteveLamerton> Thankyou!
18:45:31 <Gizmokid2005> looks good to me SteveLamerton :)
18:46:07 <SteveLamerton> Excellent thanks you guys, I will submit that tonight :)
18:51:22 <JohnTHaller> Ok back
18:52:59 <JohnTHaller> Yes, we call it the PortableApps.com Platform.  But it's still the PortableApps.com Menu inside
18:56:27 <JohnTHaller> SteveLamerton: I think mentioning our license would be nice, too.  All our stuff is GPLed.  And the number of languages supported (installer supports 58, platform supports 51).  ANd that we support and test in Wine as well.
18:57:14 <SteveLamerton> JohnTHaller: Installer languages are mentioned on the installer slide, I will add the other stuff too :)
19:00:21 <JohnTHaller> cool
19:00:29 <JohnTHaller> you want some sexy bgs?
19:01:00 <computerfreaker> g2g, got some stuff I need to take care of and a couple of updated launchers to post
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19:01:08 <SteveLamerton> JohnTHaller: If you have them handy
19:01:45 <JohnTHaller> I can prob get you something tomorrow AMish.  What are you doing the p[resntation in... OO.o?
19:02:55 <SteveLamerton> Well it is written in Powerpoint 07, exported to pdf
19:03:02 <JohnTHaller> Ok
19:03:40 <SteveLamerton> Actually give me a minute, I'll just try something
19:04:25 <JohnTHaller> Ok, who wants to try 1.6 final?
19:04:43 <Gizmokid2005> JohnTHaller: only if you fixed RemainVisible ;)
19:05:15 <JohnTHaller> We will probably deprecate that.  It's because of issues with the taskbar in Win7.  Had to change the show and hide bits :-(
19:05:32 <Gizmokid2005> what issues? Everything has always worked fine for me...
19:06:08 <Gizmokid2005> I mean, I noticed you making it optional to show in the taskbar as an actual entry...but if you are deprecating RemainVisible, what's the point?
19:06:17 <JohnTHaller> We had to add the ability for the PA.c icon to appear in the Win7 taskbar instead of systray... since Win7 won't show it by default (unlike previous Windows versions).
19:06:36 <Gizmokid2005> win7 won't show anything in the tray by default, even half its' own icons.
19:06:47 <Gizmokid2005> nearly all users should know that...hence the big arrow...
19:06:48 <JohnTHaller> IN order to do that, I had to change the way the menu itself shows and hides.  This interfered with the systray icons ability to show/hide and I had to set it to show only
19:07:10 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, but nearly everyone on Win7 asks why they have to keep re-launching the menu.
19:07:28 <JohnTHaller> And hardly anyone is using RemainVisible at the moment.
19:07:30 <Gizmokid2005> Then they should be pointed to the appropriate information...it's new, people aren't used to change.
19:07:45 <JohnTHaller> No.  We're not going to teach people to use Win7.  We have to adjust to it.
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19:08:25 <Gizmokid2005> That's just like saying you aren't going to fix the Wait cursor issue that some people see with the splash disabled it...
19:08:29 <JohnTHaller> I will attempt to get it working again in a later beta, but it's far more important to support Win7 and have it be easy for users.
19:08:30 <Gizmokid2005> it's a windows problem..
19:09:55 <JohnTHaller> Doesn't matter, it becomes OUR problem.  If the menu, by default on Windows 7, disappears entirely from the screen with no icon visible by default after a user launches an app or clicks away from it... it's BAD usability.  Most users are confused by that.  IN Vista/XP they can scout around and see it sitting their in the systray at least.  On Win7, they can't without interacting with the systray... and they don't know to expect
19:10:27 <SteveLamerton> New version uploaded: http://drop.io/pacfosdem10/asset/fosdem10bg-pdf The only bit that looks dodgy is the front page logo, it would need different colouring
19:10:32 <JohnTHaller> So, having it show up on the screen SOMEWHERE by default (in our case, the taskbar) on Win7 is far more important than RemainVisible.
19:10:47 <Gizmokid2005> what was the issue with coexistence between the two JohnTHaller?
19:11:23 <JohnTHaller> I had to entirely change the way the menu shows and hides.  I had to disable the ability for the systray icon to hide the menu for now.
19:11:36 <JohnTHaller> There is probably a workaround, but I don't have an hour to find it.
19:12:37 <JohnTHaller> Hang on steve... lemme get you a betgter one
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19:14:06 <JohnTHaller> Gizmokid2005: It's not the way I wanted to do it, but it was the only way that worked for now.  Eventually, I want to show/hide with the systray icon again... and then RemainVisible will work right.
19:14:23 <SteveLamerton> JohnTHaller: Cheers, if not I will just open up the logo and paint bucket the letters white ;)
19:14:55 <JohnTHaller> Steve: http://portableapps.com/temp/palogowhite.png
19:18:50 <sar3th> i don't think you should deprecate the RemainVisible=true setting, as i think it's very useful...i hate it when the menu randomly disappears, and even the ShowInTaskbar won't do much about that :(
19:19:22 <sar3th> well, randomly is not the appropriate word, but you know what i mean...after starting an app
19:19:23 <JohnTHaller> It's temporary.  Win7 [proper support is much more important.  It's a menu, so it works as expected.
19:19:46 <sar3th> it's okay if it's a known bug by default, but i don't think you should give it up completely
19:20:10 <JohnTHaller> I *just* said: It's not the way I wanted to do it, but it was the only way that worked for now.  Eventually, I want to show/hide with the systray icon again... and then RemainVisible will work right.
19:20:56 <SteveLamerton> How about this for the final version?  http://drop.io/pacfosdem10/asset/fosdem10bg2-pdf
19:22:57 <JohnTHaller> 3-5 million users worldwide.  important stat to add
19:23:33 <JohnTHaller> >100,000 website members to go along with that
19:24:11 <SteveLamerton> Got that one
19:24:14 <SteveLamerton> Added the first
19:24:42 <JohnTHaller> Hang on... new menu screenshot....
19:25:48 <MaienM> the link kinda looks bad with that background, seeing how no one can click on it anyway maybe you should make it normal text?
19:26:26 <SteveLamerton> Good call MaienM, silly auto link creation ;)
19:26:27 <JohnTHaller> http://portableapps.com/files/images/screenshots/platform1.6.png
19:26:54 <sar3th> looks nice
19:27:01 <MaienM> looking good :)
19:27:22 <SteveLamerton> JohnTHaller: Thanks, changed :)
19:30:06 <JohnTHaller> Ok, 1.6 is up and propogating.  You guys can snag it early from here, but please don't spread the link yet.  I'll announce it in a couple hours... got a conf call with a prospective partner first.  https://sourceforge.net/projects/portableapps/files/PortableApps.com%20Platform/PortableApps.com%20Platform%201.6/PortableApps.com_Platform_Setup_1.6.exe/download
19:32:39 <SteveLamerton> JohnTHaller: Nice one :)
19:32:47 <SteveLamerton> Hopefully final copy here: http://drop.io/pacfosdem10/asset/fosdem10-pdf
19:33:07 <JohnTHaller> Check out the fun new graphics in the installer, too :-)
19:34:29 <JohnTHaller> The Menu slid is missing the multilingual part
19:35:19 <SteveLamerton> JohnTHaller: You said 51?
19:36:00 <JohnTHaller> Yeah 51.  And the menu lets you uninstall apps now, too :-) now tha 1.6 is final.
19:37:03 <SteveLamerton> Ok, got that added too :)
19:37:05 <JohnTHaller> I told you I sent you 10 drives, too, right?
19:37:19 <SteveLamerton> You said you were going to, great :)
19:38:44 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, sent em earlier this week.  Should be there in time.  They're blank, but you can throw Suite 1.6 on each pretty quickly.  I'd say keep one for yourself as a thank you/keepsake.  Give away 1 as a raffle in your lightning talk by asking people to give you a business card or slip of paper (ask for it at the beginning so you have it at the end).  And then the rest for prospective partners as we said.
19:40:02 <SteveLamerton> Sort of mention it at the beginning, then collect cards at the end? And sounds good to me, loading them up will be no problem
19:44:44 <JohnTHaller> Yeah.  COol
19:47:11 <SteveLamerton> I am loving the new graphics in the installer!
19:48:32 <JohnTHaller> Like em? :-)  Designer just did them.  And I reworked the USB icon last night for autorun.inf and showing up in Explorer.
19:49:33 <SteveLamerton> Very nice :) New icon looks a lot more interesting in explorer that the other one :)
19:49:50 <JohnTHaller> Compiling the suite is so much easier now with the new installer I wrote.  When we do 2.0, we're gonna add more langs for suites.
19:52:50 <SteveLamerton> Sounds good, I guess that means that with 2.0 comes an updated suite?
19:53:16 <JohnTHaller> Actually 1.6 is getting one, too.  Uploading it now.
19:53:55 <SteveLamerton> Nice, be good to have a nicely updated suite
19:54:22 <JohnTHaller> Yup, better installer that upgrades the apps more smoothly too.  Incoroporates all the changes that preserve addons like Pidgin plugins and stuff.
19:57:34 <SteveLamerton> Ahhh ok
19:59:49 <JohnTHaller> Alright, conference call time... back in a bit
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20:39:03 <JohnTHaller> hola again
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20:54:16 <Oni-Neoxes> Hello JohnTHaller.
20:54:23 <Oni-Neoxes> how goes you?
20:56:51 <JohnTHaller> not bad.  good call
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20:59:17 <Oni-Neoxes> Hello SteveLamerton.
20:59:22 <Oni-Neoxes> How's your day so far.
20:59:36 <SteveLamerton> Very good thanks Oni-Neoxes, yourself?
21:00:01 <Oni-Neoxes> Pretty great day so far.
21:03:07 <ZachThibeau> howdy SteveLamerton, how's toucan coming along
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21:05:59 <SteveLamerton> ZachThibeau: Slowly, not had much time recently been focussing on the FOSDEM stuff really
21:06:12 <ZachThibeau> ahh ok
21:06:34 <ZachThibeau> has anyone heard from John (xenon dev) lately?
21:06:47 <JohnTHaller> 1.6 platform/suite is uploading and mirroring  :-)
21:06:53 <JohnTHaller> No, haven't.  SHould drop him a note
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21:08:21 <ZachThibeau> if he is going to drop xenon 2.0 I would be willing (assuming he would be alright with it) to continue it's development
21:11:17 <SteveLamerton> ZachThibeau: You can see the presentation here: http://drop.io/pacfosdem10/asset/fosdem10-pdf
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21:12:53 <ZachThibeau> thanks SteveLamerton
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21:22:21 <SteveLamerton> ZachThibeau: You like?
21:22:51 <ZachThibeau> can't view it yet, busy with other work atm but I have it saved to my hard drive
21:23:09 <SteveLamerton> Ahh no problem :)
21:35:20 <ZachThibeau> SteveLamerton: nice presentation :D
21:35:28 *** ptmb (n=PTMblogg@a83-132-128-25.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #portableapps
21:35:41 <SteveLamerton> ZachThibeau: I am glad you like it :D
21:47:03 *** palogbot (n=palogbot@delawarepark.safesecureweb.com) has joined #portableapps
21:47:03 <card.freenode.net> Topic for #portableapps is: Welcome to the PortableApps.com support channel. Visit us at http://portableapps.com/ | If you need assistance, just say "help!", or ask your question, and WAIT rather than just leaving. | This channel is logged: http://nascent-project.org/irc/logs | The #PortableApps IRC rules are here: http://gizmokid2005.com/paircrules Read and abide by them.
21:47:03 <card.freenode.net> Users on #portableapps: palogbot ptmb Res2216firestar sentabi @SteveLamerton gluxon @JohnTHaller Oni-Neoxes Darwin4Ever Suiseiseki +GizmoBot Zarggg WastePotato @Gizmokid2005 Guest85607 TheWarden @MaienM tarbo StatBot Bensawsome +ZachThibeau NiveusLuna sar3th SrgSiler|Sleep Mir
21:47:03 <GizmoBot> palogbot is the logging bot for #portableapps . Logs are found at http://nascent-project.org/irc/logs . If he dies: http://nascent-project.org/portableapps/irc/restart
21:47:03 <MaienM> Auto-Message: palogbot has been restarted.
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21:51:36 <ZachThibeau> lol here is something odd, PChat my fork of xchat when compiled with Visual Studio it's about 1 meg and crashes constantly, but when compiled with mingw it's stable, and the size is 800kb and no compression applied xD
21:54:08 <sar3th> ZachThibeau: it has to do something with dll calls...STDCALL etc
21:54:51 <ZachThibeau> possibly either way I'm sticking with mingw for PChat for now until I can figure out why it's crashing when compiled with Visual Studio
21:58:03 *** m-p{3} (n=unrealmp@modemcable068.125-20-96.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #portableapps
22:01:39 *** ChrisMorgan (n=ChrisMor@unaffiliated/chrismorgan) has joined #portableapps
22:01:39 <GizmoBot> ChrisMorgan is a PortableApps.com developer and moderator
22:02:35 <ZachThibeau> howdy m-p{3} and ChrisMorgan
22:02:51 <ChrisMorgan> Hey ZachThibeau
22:04:34 <m-p{3}> Hi
22:05:17 <Bensawsome> yo m-p{3} so hows ur bare bones rig treating ya?
22:05:35 <m-p{3}> Bensawsome: Works pretty well so far, especially with my GTX 275
22:05:42 <Bensawsome> ^_^
22:05:42 <Bensawsome> lol
22:05:47 <Bensawsome> i wish i could have gotten that
22:05:51 <Bensawsome> it was freakin sweet
22:05:55 <m-p{3}> Hehe
22:06:03 <Bensawsome> and the usps lost my package
22:06:18 <m-p{3}> I don't know if it's okay to take over the channel for non-PA related stuff though.
22:06:19 <Bensawsome> i have no confidence in the infrastructure of this country anymore -_-
22:06:24 <Bensawsome> lol
22:06:27 <Bensawsome> true
22:06:33 <m-p{3}> another channel?
22:06:36 <Bensawsome> to #portableapps-ot?
22:06:41 <m-p{3}> alright
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22:14:51 <SteveLamerton> Night all
22:15:48 <ZachThibeau> here's a first :D I have 2 new users on my PChat forum :D now all I need them to do is do some major testing for them to work on :P
22:17:31 *** SteveLamerton has quit ()
22:18:24 <m-p{3}> PChat?
22:18:48 <sar3th> Inofficial XChat fork for PortableApps.com
22:19:55 <m-p{3}> Oh
22:24:09 <ZachThibeau> sar3th: unofficial
22:24:10 <ZachThibeau> :P
22:24:58 <ZachThibeau> I'm also trying to make a static compile of gtk so that I can statically link gtk into pchat so that we would not need a seperate gtk install
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22:27:31 <ChrisMorgan> ZachThibeau: you never do: just include the DLLs
22:28:26 <ZachThibeau> like zed from xchat has minigtk but he doesn't include the proper gtk headers to make third party xchat compilers to use minigtk which I believe is another (possibly) license violation
22:29:02 * ChrisMorgan has no idea about minigtk, never heard of it
22:29:47 <ZachThibeau> minigtk is a modification of the gtk library so the gtk library is 1 dll instead of a load of dll files or exe files that gtk has
22:30:31 <MaienM> so that means you always include EVERYTHING instead of just the things you need? :/
22:31:31 <ChrisMorgan> ZachThibeau: "everything" everything or "just-the-things-you-link-in-your-code" everything?
22:31:35 <ZachThibeau> iirc for something like that yes
22:31:54 <ChrisMorgan> So will it include e.g. GtkSourceView when my application has no need of it?
22:32:04 <ChrisMorgan> It'd normally be a separate DLL
22:32:15 <MaienM> that sounds like a bad idea for a portable app ;)
22:32:38 <sar3th> static compilation is most unnecessary for an app xchat when you think about it for real
22:32:59 <sar3th> the only advantage is that you have 1 exe instead of 1 exe + dlls
22:33:12 <ChrisMorgan> Personally I reckon static compilation is normally not a great idea.  It can complicate matters a bit
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22:33:30 <sar3th> windows contains several optimizations for dll loading
22:33:45 <ChrisMorgan> sar3th: yeah, prefetch and other non-portable things like that :P
22:33:46 <sar3th> if 2 apps share a dll, it's only loaded to memory once
22:34:03 <ChrisMorgan> You sure about that?  That's not my belief
22:34:09 <sar3th> why do you think any app launches faster if you close it and reopen it?
22:34:29 <sar3th> because the dlls are cached in memory, for later use and other apps
22:34:32 <ChrisMorgan> prefetch is the main thing.  Also it may not need to do as much preparation of settings or whatever second run
22:34:40 <ChrisMorgan> %WINDIR%\Prefetch
22:34:49 <sar3th> i know prefetch :P
22:35:14 <sar3th> .g site:nirsoft.net prefetch view
22:35:15 <GizmoBot> sar3th: http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/win_prefetch_view.html
22:35:18 <sar3th> ;)
22:35:27 <ChrisMorgan> Hmm.  What a strange idea.
22:35:44 <ChrisMorgan> MaienM: depends.  If you compress a dozen DLLs with UPX they may not pack down as solidly as one DLL which contains more - but has more common content.
22:36:39 <MaienM> sure, but it you have to include a lot of unused stuff a higher compression rate might not make up for that
22:37:09 <MaienM> the only real way to be sure would be testing though
22:39:34 <ZachThibeau> at any rate xchat will not compile with minigtk as minigtk package zed provides is missing several headers
22:41:29 <ZachThibeau> and I raised the issue of missing headers in minigtk on their forum and so far no reply yet and I've been waiting nearly about 2 weeks now
22:43:48 <ZachThibeau> so I'm attempting to fix it on my own with no such luck yet :/
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23:09:27 <JohnTHaller> PortableApps.com Platform/Suite 1.6 have been released: http://portableapps.com/news/2010-01-28_-_portableapps.com_platform_and_suite_1.6
23:12:26 <gluxon> JohnTHaller: Wait, officially
23:12:30 <JohnTHaller> Yup
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23:12:38 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: great!
23:12:46 <JohnTHaller> Told ya I was doing it today :-P
23:12:57 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: well done
23:13:16 <ChrisMorgan> Anyone got a copy of Stellarium on hand who can tell me what the "won't work from a path with spaces in it" string is?
23:13:29 <ChrisMorgan> I'd like to include it in the launcher before doing a release, I've got another string for translation too
23:14:11 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: I'm putting languages into the launcher (got the old ones from Firefox) so error messages will come up in the language specified in the Platform.
23:14:44 <ChrisMorgan> FYI, Your $(LauncherNextButton) was not necessary - $(^NextBtn) should be used in such situations
23:15:04 <JohnTHaller> I know.  I'm using that in many launchers now
23:15:08 <JohnTHaller> And the installer, I think
23:15:13 <ChrisMorgan> Good
23:16:02 <ChrisMorgan> Inkscape had the same issue, having translated that string which was already translated.  It provides the GPL "for informational purposes only" and changes the button text to $(^NextBtn) now rather than the "I agree" one.  They had had a string which was just "Next >" rather than "&Next >" which was a nuisance too...
23:17:27 <JohnTHaller> There's no reason to make users look at the GPL on install
23:17:57 <ChrisMorgan> I agree
23:18:09 <ChrisMorgan> I've wondered whether I should take the matter into my own hands and kill the page.
23:18:14 <ChrisMorgan> At the moment though I've been working on the Launcher.
23:18:55 <ChrisMorgan> I did put a UNC path fail message box in to the launcher
23:19:11 <ChrisMorgan> And updated the copyright date :D
23:20:00 <ChrisMorgan> Anyone got Stellarium out?
23:20:55 <gluxon> ChrisMorgan: What do you need from it? :)
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23:21:12 <ChrisMorgan> A string from Other\Source\StellariumPortable.nsi
23:21:22 <ChrisMorgan> The one about "won't work from a path with spaces"
23:21:43 <ChrisMorgan> And I suppose I probably may as well get the whole file so I don't need to rewrite the code for it
23:21:49 <gluxon> This?
23:21:49 <gluxon> LangString LauncherNoSpaces ${LANG_ENGLISH} `${PORTABLEAPPNAME} cannot run from a directory with a space in it.  Please alter the current path ($EXEDIR) to remove any spaces and start the portable app again.  Please see the help.html file for more information.`
23:22:01 <ChrisMorgan> OK, good, thanks
23:22:15 <gluxon> :)
23:22:34 * ChrisMorgan updates it to use ${LangFileString}
23:23:23 <ChrisMorgan> Great script, LangFile.nsh is
23:24:48 <ChrisMorgan> gluxon: how about the code which searches for spaces, could you find that for me?
23:25:12 <ChrisMorgan> I think it'd use WordFind but I've never used it before
23:25:23 <gluxon> Sure :)
23:26:26 <gluxon> Should I just pastebin the source?
23:26:53 <ChrisMorgan> Probably
23:26:55 <ChrisMorgan> Yes please
23:27:02 <gluxon> http://pastebin.com/m54774b1f
23:27:29 <gluxon> Somewhere around line 214
23:28:31 <ChrisMorgan> Thanks
23:30:17 <ChrisMorgan> Hmm.  So it's the Data which breaks it in Stellarium, but it can then be copied locally.
23:32:24 <gluxon> Going to get into theming for eXpresso today :)
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23:46:49 <gluxon> Those idiots over at liberkey don't know a darn thing what they're talking about!
23:46:49 <gluxon> http://www.liberkey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=3200&start=0#p22119
23:47:45 <ChrisMorgan> You follow them, do you?
23:47:50 <gluxon> NO!
23:48:07 <gluxon> rcmaehl and I were arguing for a while whether liberkey was illegal or not.
23:48:10 <gluxon> then he posted that.
23:51:48 <JohnTHaller> I have examples of dozens of GPL violations of Liberkey of our copyrights across multiple version numbers... and then opendev lying on the record to a reporter stating that they'd never used any of our software (at least he finally admitted it in this post).  I contacted them 3 times about this via 2 different methods and never received any response.  I know of at least 10 freeware packages they are *currently* bundling without
23:52:45 <ChrisMorgan> without... (line too long, truncated)
23:52:48 <ChrisMorgan> permission, I presume
23:53:11 <JohnTHaller> ... bundling without permission in violation of the associated EULAs and distrigution agreements.
23:53:45 <JohnTHaller> The only time I've mentioned them has been in our own forums when people have brought them up.  And then in the lifehacker article where there own members were stuffing the ballot box.
23:54:34 <JohnTHaller> I don't know that it's worth engaging someone like 'opendev' directly anymore due to his past shady actions, lies to reporters and refusal to remove application which he does not have permission to bundle.
23:55:05 <ChrisMorgan> Admittedly, as I understand it it seems as though the administrator of LiberKey wasn't involved in that episode.  It sure was bad judgement on lifehacker's part using an easily hijacked voting form, though...
23:55:34 <ChrisMorgan> OK, I think I'm ready to release PAL1PA1
23:55:49 <JohnTHaller> Multiple Liberkey forum members were, though.
23:56:45 <ChrisMorgan> Yep
23:58:50 <JohnTHaller> So I don't know that it's worth it.  I could post all the evidence in our forums, but then we just get in a back and forth with a project of that nature... which I don't think we want to be associated with.