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00:54:30 <barjavel.freenode.net> Topic for #portableapps is: Welcome to the PortableApps.com support channel. If you need assistance, just say "help!", or ask your question, and WAIT rather than just leaving. | Please don't PM without asking first | This channel is logged: http://nascent-project.org/irc/logs | The #PortableApps IRC rules are here: http://gizmokid2005.com/paircrules Read and abide by them
00:54:30 <barjavel.freenode.net> Users on #portableapps: palogbot SergentSiler Oni-Neoxes Veixes BjornH @ChrisMorgan Suiseiseki rouilj1 Zarggg rouilj FireFox Mir sar3th|away +GizmoBot marlop z3uS StatBot Bensawsome MaienM|Sleep @Gizmokid2005
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00:55:43 <Veixes> that's a good palogbot
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01:20:16 <ChrisMorgan> Hm.  Apparently somewhere in that bit of storm the router died briefly.
01:21:24 <JohnTHaller> no fun
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01:24:39 <GizmoBot> ZachThibeau is the main developer of PChat and is a developer with PortableApps.com
01:25:16 <ZachThibeau> howdy everyone
01:25:21 <ChrisMorgan> Hey ZachThibeau
01:25:37 <JohnTHaller> hi ZachThibeau
01:25:37 <ZachThibeau> whats up
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01:26:54 <rpinney> Hello
01:27:24 <rpinney> Can someone point me in the direction of a how-to to install on my thumbdrive?
01:27:38 <ChrisMorgan> rpinney: just download and run the installer.
01:28:33 <JohnTHaller> When it asks you where, select X:\ where X is the letter your flash drive shows up as
01:28:41 <rpinney> Oh. I didn't realize it was a diret install.
01:28:45 <rpinney> direct*
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01:33:26 <Gizmokid2005> hello JohnTHaller, get my email?
01:33:38 <JohnTHaller> yes, songbird is in the queue
01:33:53 <JohnTHaller> had to finish PA.c Installer 2.0.2.  Posting it shortly
01:34:02 <Gizmokid2005> alrighty
01:34:14 <ZachThibeau> ok brb PChat language testing
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01:34:35 <Gizmokid2005> I've been working on DamnVid and am testing the new changes by the dev, but hope to have a DT of that up soon
01:34:42 <Gizmokid2005> still no firm word on KVirc though.
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01:36:20 <GizmoBot> ...
01:39:18 <JohnTHaller> btw - anybody else have any thoughts on the minor site changes (new kinda graphical form buttons, new text and textarea style, link to My account and logout in the header)
01:40:11 <ChrisMorgan> The text fields need to have stronger borders, e.g. move the hover/active one to the default one and make the hover/active one darker still.
01:40:30 <Gizmokid2005> I noticed that, at least the buttons were different, I like it
01:40:48 <ZachThibeau> I haven't noticed actually been busy with getting PAL to do language switching for PChat as I want to do a release asap for the 1.1 release I have finished
01:40:56 <Gizmokid2005> Oh JohnTHaller, I've been meaning to tell you...Thread subs are busted.
01:41:37 <ChrisMorgan> Thread subs?
01:41:43 <Gizmokid2005> yes
01:41:48 <Gizmokid2005> email notifications of replies
01:41:53 <Gizmokid2005> I haven't gotten an email in over a week
01:41:56 <Gizmokid2005> probably longer
01:42:49 <ChrisMorgan> Ah
01:43:34 <ZachThibeau> brb doing another language switching test
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01:44:25 <ZachThibeau> woo :D got it working
01:44:38 <ZachThibeau> doing 1 more quick test before I call it 100% ready
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01:45:51 <JohnTHaller> Gizmokid2005: Make sure it isn't blocked as spam.
01:45:59 <Gizmokid2005> I did JohnTHaller
01:46:08 <Gizmokid2005> they have disappeared into oblivion
01:46:19 <JohnTHaller> you run your own server?
01:46:26 <Gizmokid2005> Nope, that's my gmail
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01:47:04 <Gizmokid2005> even my domain email is google apps for domains..
01:47:14 <ZachThibeau> ok language switching is working as it should, now to add perl support back up
01:47:35 <ChrisMorgan> ZachThibeau: what did you change with the language switching?
01:47:36 <JohnTHaller> anybody else wanna see the site redesign progress?
01:48:55 <ZachThibeau> ChrisMorgan: it was related to CheckIfExists where I had %PAL:CustomLang% (not the exact line as I'm just pulling from my head) to %PortableApps.comLocaleglibc%
01:49:29 <ChrisMorgan> Hummm.  That should be correct though..?
01:49:55 <ZachThibeau> well once I changed it it started to work properly
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01:50:42 <ChrisMorgan> Seems to me there must be a bigger problem then.
01:50:46 <ChrisMorgan> Let me step through the code.
01:50:59 <ZachThibeau> now ChrisMorgan for perl the original launcher used the %PATH% variable to add the perl directory, does pal support %PATH% modification yet?
01:51:14 <ChrisMorgan> Sure.
01:51:21 <ChrisMorgan> e.g. PATH=%PATH%;...
01:51:33 <ZachThibeau> ok great
01:51:38 <ChrisMorgan> It's got full environment variable substitution in the Environment section, so you can just use it that way.
01:52:55 <ZachThibeau> JohnTHaller: for perl strawberry perl was causing too many problems to some people, so we are going to have to switch to active state's perl binary last I checked they had a zip distribution which could be downloaded as a online plugin installer
01:53:18 <JohnTHaller> I thought strawberry perl was keen on helping us?
01:54:06 <ZachThibeau> it's the way the perl xchat perl plugin is coded atm, I haven't touched much of the plugin code
01:54:44 <JohnTHaller> ah
01:54:56 <JohnTHaller> well, we can do an online active state installer for the addon for pchat then for now.
01:55:10 <ZachThibeau> sounds good to me then
01:55:23 <ChrisMorgan> ZachThibeau: not good... it should all be working, stepping through it all seems right.
01:56:08 <ZachThibeau> maybe it's specific bug's related to certain apps?
01:56:13 <JohnTHaller> ZachThibeau or Gizmokid2005, you wanna see site redesign shots?
01:56:18 <ZachThibeau> yeah syre
01:56:20 <ZachThibeau> **sure
01:56:34 <ZachThibeau> ChrisMorgan: for the path does this look alright? PATH=%PATH%;%PAL:AppDir%\perl\bin
01:56:44 <Gizmokid2005> absolutely JohnTHaller
01:57:11 <JohnTHaller> ChrisMorgan, I PMed one to you a couple mins ago
01:57:11 <ChrisMorgan> ZachThibeau: that looks fine.
01:57:24 <ZachThibeau> O_O WOW
01:57:39 <ChrisMorgan> Take into consideration PATH precedence; sometimes working at the start of the path will be safer.
01:58:06 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: yeah, I saw it.  Again, it's growing on me.
01:58:33 <JohnTHaller> The footer has had the most work.
01:59:06 <ZachThibeau> ok PChat Portable 1.1 is ready for release :), I've done some nice work in this release
01:59:36 <ChrisMorgan> Yeah, I like the footer most.
02:00:32 <ChrisMorgan> ZachThibeau: I'm not quite happy about this language switching thing.  I wonder whether you might be safer to remain with your current launcher and just send me the PAL edition of it to see if I can work out what's happening.
02:00:56 <ZachThibeau> ok Chris
02:01:08 <ChrisMorgan> What do you reckon?
02:01:14 <ZachThibeau> I'll package up the pal version for you now if you want
02:01:54 <ChrisMorgan> That'd be good, thanks.
02:02:38 <ZachThibeau> just give me 2 minutes to switch to my desktop version and I'll get it packaged for you and I like to use the PAL Launcher since it's the only launcher I got language switching to work at all
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02:05:20 <ZachThibeau> generating PortableApps.com Installer package now for PChat
02:06:48 <ZachThibeau> uploading now
02:12:38 <ZachThibeau> argh I wish my connection was faster atm :/
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02:17:34 <ChrisMorgan> BTW JohnTHaller, I tried modifying the buttons a couple of ways changing the border radius, joining two side-by-side buttons together, adding more box-shadows to get an ever-so-slightly raised surface.  Fun playing with it ;-)
02:18:39 <ChrisMorgan> One thing, the select element is missing from the :hover effect which darkens the border.
02:22:08 <ZachThibeau> still uploading Chris
02:24:58 <ChrisMorgan> http://chrismorgan.info/temp/PortableApps.comButtonsRetro.png
02:27:48 <ChrisMorgan> Or the "boring" variant without the uneven border radius: http://chrismorgan.info/temp/PortableApps.comButtons2.png
02:28:38 <ChrisMorgan> Something's just occurred to me... when it takes the screenshot, the window loses focus, and so the cursor stops being a hand.  How interesting.
02:29:18 <ZachThibeau> ChrisMorgan: http://pchat-irc.com/PChatPortable_1.1.paf.exe
02:29:31 <ChrisMorgan> Got it, thanks
02:29:58 <ZachThibeau> np
02:31:11 <ZachThibeau> just ping me if you found anything wrong, personally it seems to be working just fine :/
02:32:02 <ChrisMorgan> I see you're using LANG=%PortableApps.comLocaleglibc%, so the [Language] section is not being used for anything at the moment.
03:05:08 <ChrisMorgan> ZachThibeau: realised one thing about it: if you set CheckIfExists, you should also set DefaultIfNotExists, otherwise if it doesn't exist, it'll get a blank string.
03:08:06 <ChrisMorgan> ZachThibeau: another thing: you probably want to quote the -d value for paths with spaces?
03:19:20 <JohnTHaller> ChrisMorgan: The joined buttons thing is cool
03:22:07 <JohnTHaller> updated the stylesheet.  select will hover now.  and darkened up the borders
03:24:38 <ChrisMorgan> The problem with the joined buttons thing is that it's a bit hard to do predictably for all situations.
03:24:49 <JohnTHaller> Yeah
03:24:57 <JohnTHaller> And Drupal doesn't have it built in to understand it.
03:24:59 <ChrisMorgan> You can do :first-thingummy and :last-thingummy to get some of it, but managing the margin is a bit tricky.
03:25:13 <JohnTHaller> ah
03:26:14 <ChrisMorgan> In there, I did margin-right: 0 on the first and margin-left: -5px on the second button, but that was because of the whitespace between them.  Not sure if that can be gotten rid of without display: block or a bit more messy CSS.
03:26:42 <JohnTHaller> Yeah.  ANd getting it working properly in all browsers even when zoomed could be tricky
03:27:55 <ChrisMorgan> If I can effectively eradicate the whitespace in between (remember back into the distant past and try lots of things...) it'd be easy.
03:28:09 <ChrisMorgan> But if not, then you're going for absolute sizes which is nasty.
03:32:22 <ChrisMorgan> ZachThibeau: going back to using PAL:LanguageCustom is working fine for me as far as setting LANG is concerned (tried en_US - LANG= - and de - LANG=de).
03:33:18 <ChrisMorgan> Then there's just the minor thing that PChat doesn't launch at all.  Does it support Windows Server 2003?
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03:38:42 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: float: left; margin: 0; does it for joining them together.
03:39:34 <JohnTHaller> I think that'll mess up right-aligned ones like Split Summary for articles
03:41:01 <ChrisMorgan> Possibly.  I'll try it.
03:41:51 <ChrisMorgan> Then I just remove the left/right border on one of them, round the left/right border-radius, remove the top: 1 in :hover and it looks great in the user edit page.
03:43:18 <JohnTHaller> cool
03:43:26 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: the margin: 0 affects the Split Summary button, as I would expect, but not the float: left;
03:43:48 <ChrisMorgan> The teaser-button-wrapper float:right keeps it over on the right.
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03:44:21 <ChrisMorgan> I'll see if I can make a bit of CSS to do it all.
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03:48:44 <ChrisMorgan> ZachThibeau: this may also interest you; running PChat in Wine, where you get the console output: it works, but there are quite a few GTK warnings and whatnot. http://pastebin.com/2EVvexJ0
03:49:28 <ChrisMorgan> Not sure if the "Gtk-Message: Failed to load module "canberra-gtk-module":  `libcanberra-gtk-module.dll': Module not found" matters, but the "Error while trying to open the  c:/devel/target/dd9b04a76900cdb40fad5d615475d28f/etc/gtk-2.0\im-multipress.conf  configuration file: No such file or directory" sounds like it's trying to access paths from your devel machine or something like that.
03:49:44 <ChrisMorgan> The Pango font warnings can probably be ignored, I expect.
03:54:41 <OliverK> i see those devel errors all of the time
03:54:46 <OliverK> with other apps
03:55:00 <OliverK> not sure what it is supposed to mean . . . .
03:59:25 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: that darkened textbox change you just made is good.
04:04:05 <JohnTHaller> thanks.  I ditched the glow, darkened the borders and made it look more concave.  my designer schooled me on best practices for forms.  it really works.
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04:05:52 <ChrisMorgan> Yep, I like it.
04:06:56 <ChrisMorgan> I've got my button-joining CSS working fine when there are three buttons, but on the user page the :first-of-type isn't working properly for some as yet unknown reason.
04:08:53 <ChrisMorgan> Trying :nth-of-type(x) I finally got it working at x=4 :-/
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04:10:29 <ChrisMorgan> Yep, it's those three hidden inputs that are catching it :-(
04:11:01 <ChrisMorgan> :*-of-type still just means <input>, not input.form-submit :-(
04:11:26 <JohnTHaller> let it go :-)
04:11:28 <JohnTHaller> work on other stuff
04:11:35 <JohnTHaller> I think we're gonna keep our buttons as is anyway
04:12:43 <ChrisMorgan> It was a fun experiment if nothing else.  I'd still like to get it working anyway... :-)
04:16:55 <ChrisMorgan> http://chrismorgan.info/temp/PortableApps.comButtonsJoined.png is how it looked in a node editing form (it worked fine without the Save button too, when it just had two buttons)
04:19:08 <JohnTHaller> that looks really good
04:19:22 <JohnTHaller> send me the css.  i'll see if our designer digs it
04:22:06 <ChrisMorgan> http://chrismorgan.info/temp/portableapps.com-joined-buttons.css
04:23:12 <ChrisMorgan> The margin stuff could be altered so it doesn't change it... hang on, I'll do that now.
04:24:10 <ChrisMorgan> Fixed it, same URL.  That removes the 2px shuffling left of the buttons.
04:25:18 <ChrisMorgan> Working for me on the user page, node add page, node edit page, 1-3 buttons.
04:25:46 <ChrisMorgan> If we ever have 4 buttons, that hack for the user page so that it gets the radius on the left side would need to be removed and user/*/edit would just have to suffer.
04:27:32 <ChrisMorgan> I reckon it looks quite nice actually.  Which surprises me a bit in a way :P
04:28:10 <ChrisMorgan> Only tested in Firefox 3.6 on Linux so far.
04:28:33 <JohnTHaller> Ok installer 2.0.2 is up: http://portableapps.com/news/2010-06-16_-_portableapps.com_installer_2.0.2
04:28:36 <JohnTHaller> as is toucan 3.0
04:30:52 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: <select> is looking wonky in Chrome, it seems to be taking the whole size to do the fade rather than half a dozen pixels or whatever?
04:32:10 <JohnTHaller> odd.  i hadn't checked that out yet
04:34:29 <ChrisMorgan> And it's fading from approximately black to white rather than light grey to white
04:34:29 <ChrisMorgan> s/white/very light grey/
04:34:29 <ChrisMorgan> My nice button joining stuff kills the border-radius in Chrome.
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04:34:45 <barjavel.freenode.net> Topic for #portableapps is: Welcome to the PortableApps.com support channel. If you need assistance, just say "help!", or ask your question, and WAIT rather than just leaving. | Please don't PM without asking first | This channel is logged: http://nascent-project.org/irc/logs | The #PortableApps IRC rules are here: http://gizmokid2005.com/paircrules Read and abide by them
04:34:45 <barjavel.freenode.net> Users on #portableapps: palogbot @OliverK|Away +ZachThibeau @JohnTHaller @ChrisMorgan FireFox SrgSiler|AFK Veixes BjornH Suiseiseki rouilj1 Zarggg rouilj Mir sar3th|away +GizmoBot marlop|away z3uS StatBot Bensawsome MaienM|Sleep @Gizmokid2005
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04:35:39 <JohnTHaller> ChrisMorgan: where is there a select somewhere?
04:35:49 <ChrisMorgan> http://portableapps.com/node/23864/edit
04:36:16 <JohnTHaller> You mean STory Topic?
04:36:19 <ChrisMorgan> Yep
04:36:25 <JohnTHaller> Looks fine for me.  All white
04:36:39 <JohnTHaller> Chrome 5.0
04:36:49 <ChrisMorgan> Chrome's Developer Tools are so horrible compared to Firebug.
04:40:14 <ChrisMorgan> Interesting, it seems like it may be a bug in Chrome/Webkit on Linux.  As soon as it gets a background, it starts rendering it in a custom way, which even with white to white is a yucky gradient, overlayed on top of it: black to transparent black, I think.
04:40:30 <ChrisMorgan> So it's not your fault, except for triggering the bug ;-)
04:42:57 <JohnTHaller> ouch
04:43:18 <ChrisMorgan> I see why my borders aren't working.  -moz-border-radius-topleft etc. don't map to -webkit-border-radius-topleft but rather -webkit-border-top-left-radius
04:44:34 <ChrisMorgan> And the same applies for the CSS3/Opera spec.  Mozilla did it the "wrong way".
04:45:37 <ChrisMorgan> OK, updated stylesheet for Chrome and hopefully/probably Opera support.  Same URL.
04:46:24 <ChrisMorgan> Still looks a bit wonky in Chrome because the buttons are too short for some reason.
04:59:05 <JohnTHaller> alright, abiword is up.  bedtime.  more releases in the am.  well, later in the am.
05:01:14 <ChrisMorgan> :P
05:01:17 <ChrisMorgan> Goodnight, sleep well.
05:01:56 <ChrisMorgan> Is it just me, or are you really not using the LangStrings in the message boxes in the Installer?
05:02:03 <ChrisMorgan> And if not, why not?
05:04:38 <JohnTHaller> One message up front comes up before lang switching
05:05:05 <JohnTHaller> elsewhere, they are set manually only if they don't exist (because some of the lang files are missing certain strings) and that's the only way to have a fallback in NSIS
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05:08:20 <ChrisMorgan> ${LangFileString}
05:09:03 <ChrisMorgan> ${LangFileString} str value == LangString str ${LANG_WHATEVER} value
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05:09:10 <ChrisMorgan> Makes for much neater code.  That's how I do it in PAL.
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05:14:55 <JohnTHaller> ChrisMorgan: what file in the source are you using it like that?
05:15:07 <ChrisMorgan> All my language files.
05:15:28 <ChrisMorgan> And once you're using MUI_LANGUAGE, you don't need to do anything extra at all.
05:15:29 <JohnTHaller> I just see langfilestring var text
05:15:52 <JohnTHaller> What if it's running in Bulgarian and the Bulgarian file is missing a string.
05:16:45 <ChrisMorgan> http://portableapps.hg.sourceforge.net/hgweb/portableapps/launcher/file/tip/Other/Source/Languages.nsh
05:17:12 <ChrisMorgan> Then the language files are full of things like ${LangFileString} LauncherFileNotFound "$AppNamePortable cannot be started. You may wish to re-install to fix this issue. (ERROR: $MissingFileOrPath could not be found)"
05:17:23 <JohnTHaller> I know that part
05:17:29 <JohnTHaller> My issue is what if a lang file is missing a var
05:17:30 <ChrisMorgan> And if a string is missing, it takes the value from the one specified as the default; English in my case.
05:17:56 <ChrisMorgan> That's what LANGFILE_INCLUDE_WITHDEFAULT does
05:17:56 <JohnTHaller> I keep asking that and you keep thinking I'm not using langfiles :-P
05:18:03 <JohnTHaller> See, that's what I needed :-P
05:18:08 <JohnTHaller> I was unfamiliar with that command
05:18:44 <JohnTHaller> We'll add that into the next release and ditch my if sections
05:19:24 <JohnTHaller> 20 strings across 70 langs, I know a few are missing here and there.
05:19:27 <ChrisMorgan> Do you want me to do that?  I can go back to the 2.0.2 thing and manage multiple heads on my repository.
05:19:59 <ChrisMorgan> Later I expect all of my changes will be merged (or fixed, or rejected), but for the moment we can leave that line dangling.
05:20:09 <JohnTHaller> Not yet.  I still don't know Hg and don't have the time to learn it.
05:20:25 <JohnTHaller> Unless you wanna hold my hand when I need to update something.
05:20:35 <JohnTHaller> I'd still like only confirmed and tested working changed committed.
05:20:43 <JohnTHaller> changed - changes
05:21:28 <ChrisMorgan> I'm meaning just the changes on the language strings technique.  That's pretty easy to test.
05:21:31 <JohnTHaller> right now, testers are just you and me.  so if you don't test it, I have to.
05:21:38 <JohnTHaller> Ok, that's cool
05:22:44 <ChrisMorgan> Now go to bed :P
05:22:55 <JohnTHaller> will do, heh
05:22:57 <JohnTHaller> gnight man
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07:19:22 <pa_1166> I develop the site. Can I use materials from your website, a hyperlink pointing back?
07:21:45 <ChrisMorgan> Sure; the stuff designed specifically for use is at http://portableapps.com/about/press
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08:59:49 <ZachThibeau> sory ChrisMorgan I was asleep and as for PChat supporting Windows Server 2003 I have no idea whatsoever
09:00:00 <ZachThibeau> *sorry
09:01:27 <ChrisMorgan> It starts and immediately terminates.  On Wine it works as expected.
09:01:58 <ZachThibeau> yeah I don't use windows server to be honest nor do I have a copy of it
09:03:08 <ZachThibeau> but on the other versions of windows IE Vista, XP, 7 it should work as expected
09:05:29 <ZachThibeau> anyways I need to get up and get ready for work, is there anything else needed to be done with PChat ChrisMorgan?
09:08:55 <ChrisMorgan> Well, I changed to CheckIfExists=%PAL:AppDir%\PChat\locale\%PAL:LanguageCustom%\LC_MESSAGES\pchat.mo and LANG=%PAL:LanguageCustom% and it worked fine.
09:10:00 <ZachThibeau> I'll give it another try and see if it works for me
09:10:07 <ZachThibeau> if not it could be just my computer :/
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09:10:44 <GizmoBot> ZachThibeau is the main developer of PChat and is a developer with PortableApps.com
09:10:56 <ZachThibeau> it works now :/
09:10:58 <ZachThibeau> odd
09:11:27 <ChrisMorgan> For correctness I also had [Language]:DefaultIfExists=en_GB
09:11:48 <ChrisMorgan> I wonder what the difference was.  There must have been some.  Ah well, so long as it works :-)
09:12:19 <ZachThibeau> ok I'll add that and it should be readyfor release today as long as john is ready to release it, I may do it as a pre-release first
09:13:30 <ZachThibeau> brb coffee time
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09:52:32 <ZachThibeau> ChrisMorgan: you may want to take a look at this http://portableapps.com/node/23867
09:53:34 <ZachThibeau> with that I also do say PChat Portable 1.1 Pre-Release 1 is ready for testing http://portableapps.com/node/23868 and with that I am off to work be back in 4 hours
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15:23:11 <GizmoBot> ...
15:23:34 <ZachThibeau> howdy everyone
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17:00:46 <GizmoBot> ZachThibeau is the main developer of PChat and is a developer with PortableApps.com
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17:19:43 <ZachThibeau> howdy St
17:19:51 <ZachThibeau> ** SteveLamerton
17:20:53 <SteveLamerton> Hello ZachThibeau, all
17:21:38 <ZachThibeau> whats new?
17:23:29 <SteveLamerton> Dreadful Toucan release ;) Finished end of years exams yesterday though which is good
17:24:08 <ZachThibeau> nice
17:24:36 <ZachThibeau> I'm getting PChat 1.1 finalised, did a pre-release test and hoping it will be enough for the final cut :)
17:27:19 <ZachThibeau> after that I shall be taking over code::blocks Portable (got permission from Chris to take over the development of it)
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17:35:44 <TimClark> SteveLamerton: are you active ?
17:35:55 <SteveLamerton> TimClark: For a while, yes
17:36:20 <TimClark> I am a little confused, it Tucan 3 going to need a Rev 2 ?
17:36:28 <TimClark> is*
17:37:23 <TimClark> Toucan 3.0  *
17:37:41 <TimClark> Sorry, I keep misspelling that
17:38:36 <SteveLamerton> Not a rev 2, more of a 3.1
17:39:16 <TimClark> Ahh, ok
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17:48:12 <GizmoBot> ...
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18:07:02 <TimClark> So apps that are made from scratch, like Steve's get the base app undated when there is a problem, When we portableize and an existing app it keeps it's original version and gets a Rev 2 if we fuck up, is that it Gizmokid2005  ?
18:07:34 <TimClark> Sorry for the language guys, wrong Tab :(
18:07:34 <Gizmokid2005> TimClark: typically, but only because Steve's app is meant to be portable by design, he made it for PA.
18:08:21 <Gizmokid2005> on the other hand TimClark, songbird, if there is a screwup in the app, it gets a new app revision, but if it's a screwup in the portablization, then it's a rev.
18:09:01 <TimClark> Thanks Gizmokid2005 , I think I understand it now
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19:05:02 <GizmoBot> ZachThibeau is the main developer of PChat and is a developer with PortableApps.com
19:09:41 <ZachThibeau> howdy Tim
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19:11:47 <TimClark> Sorry ZachThibeau WebCrap pinged out, again
19:12:00 <ZachThibeau> no problems
19:16:54 <TimClark> ZachThibeau: What would be "the rare instance that the launcher doesn't work as it should (which sometimes can happen)" ??
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19:28:02 <GizmoBot> ZachThibeau is the main developer of PChat and is a developer with PortableApps.com
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19:36:23 <benedikt93> Hi
19:36:33 <benedikt93> ZachThibeau: concerning PChat: How long / to which length are the logs saved?
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19:53:50 <ZachThibeau> sorry benedikt93 I was away from my pc, the logs pretty much keep gathering to a certain degree, at a certain number of lines the log resets and restarts collecting
19:54:35 <benedikt93> when will this happen exactly?
19:54:36 <ZachThibeau> so the logs don't gather much in terms of conversation per say just enough for the end user to see what was said last time
19:55:27 <ZachThibeau> and as I said at a certain number of lines about 46 lines and then the logs reset and start collecting for another 46 lines
19:55:42 <ZachThibeau> over writting the old logs
19:56:00 <sar3th> really?
19:56:40 <ZachThibeau> at least from what I gathered from the source code, to be honest most of my changes haven't really been with the logs
19:57:23 <sar3th> well, my logs go back to my first join in #portableapps :P
19:57:29 <sar3th> **** BEGINNE LOGBUCH UM Mon Feb 09 18:52:27 2009
19:57:45 <sar3th> 38592 lines, becuase i switched to znc sometime
19:57:59 <Veixes> enough to write a book
19:58:00 <sar3th> so the normal xchat does not delete logs
19:58:08 <sar3th> i think you confuse it with scrollback
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19:58:56 <ZachThibeau> maybe, like I said I haven't really touched much when it comes to the actuall logging functions just mostly the text loading functions making it faster etc
20:03:04 <ZachThibeau> anyways JohnTHaller I've released a pre-release of PChat 1.1 using the PortableApps.com Launcher and everything seems to be in working order, perl plugin seems to be working properly, the only real complaint I got was for the gtk wimp theme making it and I quote "win98ish"
20:03:28 <ZachThibeau> I say another day or 2 of testing it maybe ready for release
20:04:26 <JohnTHaller> cool, ZachThibeau
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20:18:14 <ZachThibeau> ok well be right back got to reboot my pc
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20:22:57 <GizmoBot> ZachThibeau is the main developer of PChat and is a developer with PortableApps.com
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20:33:39 <benedikt93> ZachThibeau: It can't be only 46 lines as I have a log file with about 1800 lines.
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20:46:32 <pa_6419> JohnTHaller: John what is holding you back from finally updating all the apps in the directory?
20:49:06 <JohnTHaller> I am updating them all, it just takes a while.
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20:50:13 <pa_6419> :P
20:57:10 <pa_6419> JohnTHaller: Do you know why the final version of the launcher isn't pushed out? (He already tagged 2.0 final in the repo)
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21:05:49 <Pyromaniac> hi
21:06:39 <Pyromaniac> hey JohnTHaller , do you know whether I can destribute Stinger ( http://vil.nai.com/vil/stinger/ ) in an online installer?
21:07:25 <Pyromaniac> somebody told me that McAfee wrote their lisence so that you couldn't
21:09:40 <Pyromaniac> I can't seem to find where it might suggest that, so I thought you might be able to answer that JohnTHaller ?
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21:20:22 <TimClark> Pyromaniac: it should be presumed that ALL apps that are Not OSS are NOT free to redistribute unless you find direct evidence to the contrary.
21:21:01 <TimClark> This is the first thing you want to check before making a "commercially developed app" portable.
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21:25:42 <Pyromaniac> so are you saying TimClark that an installer that downloads the app from the original source is still redistributing it?
21:26:05 <TimClark> No, that is NOT what I am saying
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21:27:01 <TimClark> Downloading from the host/mother site is NOT redistributing
21:27:12 <Pyromaniac> ok, well this is an online installer and it downloads the app from McAfee's site, so I thought I would be fine
21:28:01 <Pyromaniac> ok, I'll but the download link up again
21:28:47 <TimClark> Note, I did not say you should do that, merely answered your question
21:29:06 <TimClark> I don't know what other factors are in play
21:29:45 <TimClark> And I think all apps should be functional and tested BEFORE the online installer stage is developed
21:30:12 <Pyromaniac> I did that already
21:30:37 <TimClark> Sorry, I did not see any testing or feedback in your post
21:31:03 * Pyromaniac is going to email the guys at McAfee labs
21:31:27 <TimClark> Good idea
21:39:38 * Pyromaniac has sent the email.
21:41:02 <TimClark> Pyromaniac: considering what it does, does the Stinger even run as a Limited User ?
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21:43:46 <TimClark> Even IF it will run, I don't think it would be able to clean a system as a limited user
21:44:05 <TimClark> So it would only be able to tell you if a host machine is infected with that limited set of viruses / malware but Not be able to clean it unless you become Admin
21:44:34 <TimClark> opps, he's gone
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21:49:36 <JohnTHaller> back :-)
21:49:41 <JohnTHaller> hi TimClark
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21:50:05 <Pyromaniac> TimClark: Yes
21:50:25 <JohnTHaller> TimClark: wanna see a site redesign snapshot?
21:50:26 <TimClark> Pyromaniac: yes, what?
21:50:42 <Pyromaniac> yes, stinger portable works with limited rights
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21:54:27 <TimClark_> Sorry about that guys, webcrap sucks
21:54:41 <TimClark_> JohnTHaller: yes i would like to see it
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21:54:57 <TimClark_> Pyromaniac: did you see what I said just as you parted
21:55:07 <Pyromaniac> no
21:55:19 <Pyromaniac> do I need to?
21:55:23 <TimClark_> Even IF it will run, I don't think it would be able to clean a system as a limited user
21:55:28 <TimClark_> So it would only be able to tell you if a host machine is infected with that limited set of viruses / malware but Not be able to clean it unless you become Admin
21:55:47 <Pyromaniac> eh, now I got to infect my computer with a virus... great
21:55:59 <Pyromaniac> oh the things I need to do for testing :P
21:56:35 <Pyromaniac> but its not designed to be a replacement to antivirus programs, it says so on the site
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21:57:25 <Pyromaniac> "It is not a substitute for full anti-virus protection, but rather a tool to assist administrators and users when dealing with an infected system."
21:58:20 <sar3th> "a tool to assist administrators", keep that in mind
21:58:23 <Pyromaniac> brb, I have an idea
21:58:27 <Pyromaniac> yeah
21:58:32 <TimClark_> I'm just saying that you would need to inform users that unless there were Admin it could only detect that limited list
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21:58:47 <TimClark_> NOT clean it
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22:14:25 <Pyromaniac> it doesn't seem like it won't work in a limited account
22:14:27 <Pyromaniac> http://www.portablefreeware.com/index.php?q=stinger&m=Search
22:14:51 <Pyromaniac> they usually mention when you need to be an admin to run the apps
22:15:40 <Pyromaniac> I did some google searches too and found nothing saying it won't work
22:16:30 <TimClark_> I think it is best to assume that it will not be able to clean an infected system w/o Admin, that's almost always a given
22:17:08 <TimClark_> Even ClamWin will warn you that it can clean things in memory that are loaded at the system level unless you are Admin
22:17:25 <TimClark_> it CAN'T clean *  correction
22:19:42 <Pyromaniac> well, I remember I was working on an app that was supposed to clean up the mess left by U3
22:19:50 <Pyromaniac> it did so by copying itsefl to the host
22:20:07 <Pyromaniac> and doing some other stuff later (but thats not important)
22:20:19 <Pyromaniac> and I ran norton security scan
22:20:28 <Pyromaniac> It was picking it up as a virus
22:20:51 <Pyromaniac> and I thought if Stinger saw it as a virus too, I might be able to test it like that
22:21:15 <Pyromaniac> in the Limited account. But it didn't see it as a threat.
22:21:21 <TimClark_> Stinger has a VERY limited set that it checks, so it's possible, but unlikely
22:21:42 <TimClark_> Checking
22:21:57 <Pyromaniac> checking what?
22:23:18 <TimClark_> Stinger only looks for 2912 specific viruses , trojans and variants there of
22:23:40 <Pyromaniac> I thought it was 3025?
22:23:50 <TimClark_> The odds of that matching a FP from Norton is unlikely
22:23:54 <Pyromaniac> not that its a big difference
22:24:03 <TimClark_> Does it matter 2912 3025
22:25:48 <Pyromaniac> JohnTHaller: I've been meaning to ask you, I was wondering if you could put in your menu something like ViruSense
22:26:44 <JohnTHaller> what's a virusense?
22:27:13 <Pyromaniac> Its a program (that comes with CodySafe) that tells you when autorun.inf has been modified
22:27:45 <Pyromaniac> I don't use it though, i just saw the post in the forums and went to their website again (I didn't know they added portable apps)
22:27:45 <JohnTHaller> I've debated it for a while (pre-codysafe).  The problem is it gives a false sense of security, since most viruses don't alter autorun.inf, just your apps.
22:28:26 <Pyromaniac> how about checking if its hidden? Most viruses will hide the autorun.
22:29:19 <JohnTHaller> It's not a separate app, it's just a simple check in the menu to see if codysafe is still set as start=.  It';s cake to implement.  But, like I said, most viruses will not touch autorun.inf AT ALL.  So it's definitely a false sense of security if not explained properly.
22:29:45 <Pyromaniac> ah
22:31:02 <JohnTHaller> Only a handful of USB-specific viruses will modify autorun.  And those, if you accidentally run it, you're infected before you even run codysafe or portableapps
22:31:53 <Pyromaniac> now, since NSIS is the only language, other than Batch, that I can work with, I was thinking of making a virus scanner that, every minute or so, will "FindProc" a list of known filenames for virueses, anf if it sees a match, it check the MD5 and if thats a match, it tells the user
22:32:48 <Pyromaniac> the only problem is that it will hog a lot of memory, so I'm not sure how to deal with that
22:34:19 <JohnTHaller> All of the USB-specific ones will modify autorun.inf and I can easily monitor that in Delphi.  But the majority of viruses are not USB-specific and will infect the actual programs on the flash drive.
22:38:10 <Pyromaniac> ok, well, lets use this example: virus.exe is a bad virus that does bad things. well, it will have only x amount of time to do what it will do and then, when the "FindProc" Antivirus thingy sees it, and finds out its a positive, it kills the process and says "hey look! You were in danger, but I just saved you! Let me do a quick virus scan on your drive and see if it got infected"
22:38:58 <Pyromaniac> and then it will search for the file on your drive and then tell you it and.. and..
22:39:08 <Pyromaniac> it deletes it
22:39:33 <MaienM> and you honestly believe it is that simple?
22:39:54 <JohnTHaller> Most viruses infect other files.  They'd modify StartPortableApps.exe for example.  Or Firefox.exe.
22:40:05 <Pyromaniac> eh, thats why I'm talking it out, I'm thinking out the stuff
22:40:45 <Pyromaniac> (that last statement killed my thoughts)
22:41:10 <TimClark_> And the database of viruses would have to be huge
22:41:48 <Pyromaniac> ok, well I have a different idea... this time about adobe flash player
22:41:51 <TimClark_> And, again, I think would need Admin rights
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22:42:17 <Pyromaniac> I think I know what to do, but again I want to talk it out
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22:42:32 <MaienM> Pyromaniac: not to be rude, but this room is not a think-tank, and people (not just you) should stop using it as such
22:42:39 <MaienM> -def is much more fit for that purpose
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22:42:42 <MaienM> *-dev
22:42:43 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: Jon built BPBible Portable 0.4.6, http://bpbible.googlecode.com/files/BPBiblePortable_0.4.6.paf.exe
22:43:08 <JohnTHaller> Is it good to go?
22:43:25 <ChrisMorgan> Should be.
22:43:55 <ChrisMorgan> So it's going on the BPBible Google Code project now.  That's fine I presume?
22:44:05 *** rouilj1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
22:44:05 <JohnTHaller> ChrisMorgan: We still gonna host it ourselves and have them link to us?  Or we just link to them?
22:44:13 *** rouilj has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
22:44:18 <Pyromaniac> MaienM: but that place is a ghost town, and besides I want to get as many opinions as possible
22:44:18 <ChrisMorgan> Just a link I think.
22:45:33 <MaienM> I honestly don'
22:45:47 <MaienM> ehm, wait
22:46:18 <MaienM> that room is more fit for discussion on development and such, we try to keep this room clean and available for support
22:46:19 <JohnTHaller> ChrisMorgan: Ok.  I'll post it up today.
22:46:26 <ChrisMorgan> Thanks.
22:46:59 <MaienM> and we try to keep other discussions out of it as to avoid clogging the logs
22:48:07 <TimClark_> Anybody here a Toucan user ?
22:48:57 <JohnTHaller> not a problem with 301 is there?
22:49:06 <Pyromaniac> so you decided to try it TimClark_ ?
22:49:29 <TimClark_> JohnTHaller: no, i was just going to ask  "Could you please download and run JohnTHaller 's latest upload and run some quick paces "
22:50:13 <Pyromaniac> I can!
22:50:45 <TimClark_> Pyromaniac: do you know the app well enough to know what to look for ?
22:50:59 * Pyromaniac still needs to update like 1/2 of his 75 apps
22:52:00 <Pyromaniac> what do you need to find out?
22:53:56 <Pyromaniac> that splash looks so good
22:54:00 <TimClark_> I was asking if there was anyone familiar already with the app, someone who has used it, to run it thru some of their normal paces, keeping mind the recent questions about 3.0, , to see if they found anything new
22:55:23 <Pyromaniac> eh, I only used sync and backup (and secure, once)
22:56:04 <Pyromaniac> but I accidentally deleted the encrypted file, so I never got to using it do decrypt
22:58:21 <Pyromaniac> perhaps you can post a topic TimClark_ ?
22:58:40 <TimClark_> FORGET I ASKED, please !
22:59:19 <Pyromaniac> forget what? :P
22:59:27 <TimClark_> just never mind
22:59:52 <Pyromaniac> it was a joke :P laugh a little
23:01:41 <Pyromaniac> CodySafes's portable applications page is a joke
23:02:41 *** AppGuy (~AppGuy@unaffiliated/appguy) has joined #portableapps
23:03:04 <Pyromaniac> hi AppGuy !
23:03:20 <AppGuy> hi Pyromaniac and everyoneelse here
23:03:50 <MaienM> Pyromaniac: TimClark_ asked a simple question, whether you were familiar enough with the app to be able to run some quick test to see if there was anything unusual. That question can be answered with a simple "yes" or "no", it does not in any way need a 5-line answer leading to a "no I cannot", which is totally irrelevant to what he asked.
23:07:51 * Pyromaniac will keep that in mind
23:09:11 <Pyromaniac> holy mother of mercy! I just got the codysafe menu right before they started to sell it!
23:09:20 <Pyromaniac> $9.90
23:09:22 *** JohnTHaller has parted #portableapps (None)
23:16:21 <Pyromaniac> well, I'm off, I have to do some testing of a huge app that I'm trying to make portable for that guy... Chriz, that was here yesterday.... So long!
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23:59:02 <Oni-Neoxes> Silly me. Quick question
23:59:15 <Oni-Neoxes> how do I show batch files in PA Menu