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00:45:06 <Pyromaniac> hi GizmoBot
00:45:06 <GizmoBot> Hey Pyromaniac
00:45:38 <Pyromaniac> thanks GizmoBot
00:45:38 <GizmoBot> You're Welcome Pyromaniac!
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01:46:20 <GizmoBot> OliverK is a programmer, podcaster, html spelunker and pretty handy with a screwdriver.  In short, not to be trifled with.
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02:57:16 <GizmoBot> dbdii407 is Dave, Owner of the ScrapIRC Network.
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05:07:17 <kornbluth.freenode.net> Topic for #portableapps is: Welcome to the PortableApps.com support channel. If you need assistance, just say "help!", or ask your question, and WAIT rather than just leaving. | Please don't PM without asking first | This channel is logged: http://nascent-project.org/irc/logs | The #PortableApps IRC rules are here: http://gizmokid2005.com/paircrules Read and abide by them
05:07:17 <kornbluth.freenode.net> Users on #portableapps: palogbot @ChrisMorgan Guest85766 BeckySanderlin`x +OliverK amdzero z3uS Suiseiseki Bensawsome SrgSiler|AFK ronjn @Zach[AFK] @Gizmokid2005 +GizmoBot StatBot auscompgeek
05:07:19 <GizmoBot> palogbot is the logging bot for #portableapps . Logs are found at http://nascent-project.org/irc/logs . If he dies: http://nascent-project.org/portableapps/irc/restart
05:07:22 <GizmoBot> palogbot is the logging bot for #portableapps . Logs are found at http://nascent-project.org/irc/logs . If he dies: http://nascent-project.org/portableapps/irc/restart
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05:24:17 <JohnTHaller> ChrisMorgan: Any thoughts on IOBit Smart Defrag?
05:25:26 <ChrisMorgan> Not in particular; is it any better than JkDefrag?
05:25:38 <JohnTHaller> Well, it's still being actively developed for one.
05:26:25 <ChrisMorgan> Personally I doubt the significant value of any portable defragmentation software.
05:27:08 <JohnTHaller> Well, it's not for defragging the portable flash drive.  But would be for admins doing system drives and doing their own portable hard drives.
05:27:12 <ChrisMorgan> But it'd be a change from having games every day :P
05:27:24 <OliverK> there's nothing wrong with games
05:27:29 <JohnTHaller> Well, they're easy and no one will scream at us if there's a bug in em :-P
05:27:43 <OliverK> very few people find programing to be a fun game
05:28:56 <JohnTHaller> There was only one thing missing from the Smart Defrag current test.  It's here: http://portableapps.com/node/24808#comment-166387
05:29:53 <ChrisMorgan> Yeah, such things should definitely use the PAL admin stuff.
05:30:45 <JohnTHaller> Glad we switched the file description in PAL 2.1.  UAC uses it
05:30:49 <ChrisMorgan> At the moment I'm just catching up on the last day's progress... I was manning our church shop today and managed to leave my laptop on the bus so I didn't have it during the day when we didn't have people in (collected it intact from their main office afterwards)
05:31:04 <JohnTHaller> ah ok
05:32:12 <ChrisMorgan> Pyromaniac's been busy.
05:32:54 <ChrisMorgan> I wish he'd stop putting "PortableApps.com Launcher: this app has been made with the PortableApps.com Launcher" in his things and just put it in the release notes as "(uses PAL 2.1)" or similar...
05:41:18 <JohnTHaller> Hmm... he didn't do language switching.  It should be pretty easy.
05:42:19 <ChrisMorgan> It generally is once you're used to it a bit.
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05:58:18 <JohnTHaller> Alright, can't use language switching on this I think.  All the lang files are in native form (multiple code pages) and PAL can't handle an appinfo.ini in UTF8
05:58:27 <JohnTHaller> btw - why can't it?
05:59:17 <ChrisMorgan> It should cope just fine with UTF-8; with or without BOM?
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05:59:50 <JohnTHaller> UTF8 says it can't find [Launch]:ProgramExecutable
06:00:12 <JohnTHaller> The file: http://pastebin.com/1XTGQzWP
06:00:29 <ChrisMorgan> How about UTF-16LE?
06:01:22 <JohnTHaller> Huh, that works
06:01:55 <ChrisMorgan> With UTF-8 the BOM on the [Launch] line may be messing it up; I'm not intimately acquainted with the way Windows INI stuff works.
06:02:08 <ChrisMorgan> Whereas UTF-16LE is absolutely supported by it (stupid thing).
06:02:22 <JohnTHaller> With BOM it fails.  Without BOM, it's too many different codepages for it to handle
06:03:16 <ChrisMorgan> Reading the file as ASCII it should work OK, just getting gibberish.  But getting the right bytes in then could be troublesome.  UTF-16LE is the way to go in most such cases.
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06:04:36 <JohnTHaller> Oh wait, lang switching isn't gonna work anyway because of the admin force
06:04:53 <ChrisMorgan> You're getting caught by the environment switch?
06:05:14 <JohnTHaller> right, you lose it all when switching to admin.  we haven't come up with a fix for that yet
06:06:45 <ChrisMorgan> I've got a fix in mind for 2.2, specifying particular environment variables to fetch from the non-admin thing and then use the UAC cross function call thing to pass from one to the other.  If the direct IPC doesn't work I can write it to the runtime data file and read it from the admin one and that will work.
06:07:19 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, that'll work.  I'd suggested the runtime file since I didn't know about the cross function call
06:07:50 <ChrisMorgan> Something in the UAC plugin to run a function in the launcher as the normal user.  Haven't tried it but it sounds like it should work.
06:07:54 <JohnTHaller> There's no harm leaving it there for now, right?
06:07:59 <ChrisMorgan> I'll probably get it to transfer the normal PortableApps.com* variables automatically so normally there will be no need to do it.
06:08:21 <JohnTHaller> That plus at least TEMP, since we may set that at the platform level now.
06:08:51 <ChrisMorgan> Shouldn't be, depends on whether the default value is safe.  If it is, no harm - but you may wish to let the user switch languages themselves and so probably comment out the FileWrite
06:09:16 <JohnTHaller> Well, if PAL doesn't see anything in the env var, it doesn't do anything anyway, right?
06:09:28 <JohnTHaller> (Otherwise non PA.c Platform users would always be stuck in English)
06:09:50 <ChrisMorgan> Well, yeah, it'll read with the [LanguageFile] stuff.  So it is safe.
06:10:29 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, it's fine as is then.  I didn't notice it having any issue (I just checked to be sure).
06:11:04 <ChrisMorgan> We'll need to think a bit about how the Platform/Launcher TEMP handling should go, too; currently PAL without [Launch]:CleanTEMP=false creates a subdirectory of TEMP and sets PAL:_TEMP to the original TEMP (so a second instance of PAL uses the original TEMP not the sub-TEMP).
06:11:40 <JohnTHaller> The platform will be setting a TEMP\UniqueSubDir as TEMP platform and app-wide
06:11:53 <JohnTHaller> And cleaning it out on eject.
06:13:15 <ChrisMorgan> It might be good if there were some way of telling PAL that it had done that so that PAL could not bother with its own Temp magic which will just make a second level of TEMPness.
06:17:26 <JohnTHaller> Alright, Directories Move just stopped working.  Hmmm
06:19:31 <JohnTHaller> Any thoughts?
06:23:58 <JohnTHaller> Any Chris?  I'm just trying to get this out so I can sleep.
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06:25:26 <ChrisMorgan> Personally I'd do the line more like ``appdata=%APPDATA%\IObit\IObit SmartDefrag``, but what it had should have been fine.
06:25:55 <Scriptdaemon> Ah, I see you're still working on it. I was about to say, you're late. =P
06:25:58 <JohnTHaller> It isn't moving in on launch.  Isn't backing up.  And isn't cleaning on close.
06:26:16 <ChrisMorgan> Make sure there's no whitespace at the end of the line or the quotes may make it wonky (shouldn't but I can't remember the precise parse rules I used)
06:26:22 <JohnTHaller> Every single app has required nearly an hour to get the release done.  Some have required more than an hour just to fix bugs.
06:26:58 <ChrisMorgan> It's probable that my nice ForEachINIPair macro doesn't work properly with UTF-16LE; I can't remember whether I designed it so it should work or not.
06:27:21 <ChrisMorgan> Kick out the language stuff and put it back as ANSI and see if it works.
06:27:26 <Scriptdaemon> ChrisMorgan, didn't it have issues with that awhile back?
06:28:16 <JohnTHaller> Similar minds.  I had just started persuing that.  It is the issue.
06:28:19 <ChrisMorgan> I'm not sure if FileRead automatically selects the encoding or not.  Should test that at some point.
06:28:22 <JohnTHaller> You have to use ANSI.
06:28:32 <Scriptdaemon> I didn't have that problem specifically, I just recall there being talk about it.
06:28:45 <ChrisMorgan> Hmm.  I'll need to look at that before 2.2 then.
06:30:41 <JohnTHaller> We could just force em all to be UTF16LE, I spose.  Convert em ourselves in the launcher.
06:31:42 <ChrisMorgan> Don't want that.  ANSI if possible.  I'll just need to make sure it works properly for 2.2
06:32:41 <JohnTHaller> Odd that UTF8 didn't work.  Maybe we can figure that out.
06:32:47 <JohnTHaller> Be nice to standardize everything on it
06:33:45 <ChrisMorgan> So I've got two things to do for PAL 2.1 (one Mark's one mine) and four with a possible fifth for 2.2.  Plus the ongoing manual work.
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07:01:46 <JohnTHaller> Anyone wanna proofread?  http://portableapps.com/apps/utilities/smart_defrag_portable
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07:05:08 <Scriptdaemon> On it. =P
07:06:08 <Scriptdaemon> This is freeware, correct? Don't you usually include in the top paragraph something like "This program is free for personal use." or something of that sort?
07:08:12 <JohnTHaller> added
07:08:51 <Scriptdaemon> I don't see anything wrong with anything else.
07:08:56 <JohnTHaller> cool
07:16:03 <Scriptdaemon> JohnTHaller, I have a question about the package version. What if the base app already uses the four version numbers? Do we add a fifth for revisions, etc. ?
07:17:11 <JohnTHaller> No such gthing as 5th.  Invalid.  We multiply the last one.
07:18:01 <Scriptdaemon> Ah.
07:18:47 <JohnTHaller> Ok... it's up: http://portableapps.com/news/2010-12-21_-_smart_defrag_portable_1.5
07:19:43 <Scriptdaemon> Remember to put him on the team page and give him a badge.
07:20:00 <JohnTHaller> Oh thought he was already
07:20:26 <Scriptdaemon> I did too for the longest time.
07:21:16 <Scriptdaemon> http://www.k-3d.org/ The main page version differs from the download page. I currently use the version from the download page. Which version should I use?
07:21:37 <Scriptdaemon> For display version*
07:21:50 <Scriptdaemon> It's a little late for package version.
07:22:44 <Scriptdaemon> I'll take a look at this and SWI-Prolog again and update to the latest launcher/installer and these should probably be okay to release too.
07:24:43 <JohnTHaller> your call.  i'm trying to finish up ff 4b8
07:25:18 <Scriptdaemon> To make it easier for you I think I'll do 0.8. We'll see.
07:38:32 <JohnTHaller> Ok firefox 4b8 is up
07:44:50 <Scriptdaemon> ChrisMorgan, "DON'T YOU DARE DO THAT!" error = HAHA.
07:45:40 <OliverK> JohnTHaller: sweetness
07:46:27 <JohnTHaller> Much smoother with my faster internet.  WIthout it, I'd have just gone to bed.
07:46:51 <OliverK> did you switch providers or did they fix it?
07:47:20 <JohnTHaller> They fixed the packet loss.  So now I'm getting the (very expensive) speeds I pay for.  50 / 5
07:47:32 <OliverK> 50 down, 5 up?
07:47:34 <OliverK> nice
07:48:02 <JohnTHaller> Yup.  Sadly my cable bill went from $157 to $298
07:50:07 <Scriptdaemon> There has to be a way to change the default bookmark in .gtk-bookmarks...
07:50:19 <Scriptdaemon> Hmm.
07:50:46 <OliverK> i cannot even think of a way to justify that to myself without inserting a server on my lan into that
07:51:47 <JohnTHaller> Fun fact, when you get the super premium internet, all your discounts for having cable and internet go by by.  So, just HD cable with a DVR is $101 before taxes and fees.  Needless to say, I'm cancelling cable.
07:52:10 <OliverK> with hulu, why would you need it?
07:52:18 <Scriptdaemon> Netflix >
07:52:19 <OliverK> yeah, we ran into that BS when we first got internet
07:52:46 <OliverK> we could have gotten 3 mbs, but we would have lost the discount and then it became more then what my parents wanted to pay
07:53:31 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon: that was with [DirectoriesMove] settings, wasn't it?  How did you notice it - looking through the code or doing it or something else?
07:54:37 <JohnTHaller> I really only DVR a handful of channels.  BBC, Discovery, etc.  I can live without them.  And I have Netflix for older stuff.  And I can Hulu an occasional something here and there if I really want to.   But I've not that big into watching much TV.
07:58:32 <Scriptdaemon> ChrisMorgan, I forgot to add /.k3d after 'settings'
07:58:57 <JohnTHaller> alright, bed for me.  gnight all
08:00:25 <OliverK> night
08:01:23 <Scriptdaemon> Hmm. now why isn't that working... K-3D deals with .gtk-bookmarks just like Fyre, and I copy+pasted everything over from Fyre (and adjusted for K-3D) and the pictures bookmark isn't showing...
08:02:09 <Scriptdaemon> ChrisMorgan, would the fact there's a hyphen in the name have anything to do with that?
08:03:06 <Scriptdaemon> D'oh.
08:03:12 <Scriptdaemon> Nvm.
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08:07:54 <Scriptdaemon> ChrisMorgan, do you have time to take a look at K-3D Portable?
08:11:27 <Scriptdaemon> (I haven't put it up yet, I was going to put it on Dropbox for you first, if you were up for it.)
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08:28:18 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon: at the moment I'm recording old tapes to computer and washing dishes and whatnot so I'm not ready to now.  Also, I personally prefer to have directories outside settings - Data\k3d or something like that.  (With DirectoriesMove the source and destination don't need to be the same - k3d=%USERPROFILE%\.k3d will work fine
08:28:21 <ChrisMorgan> )
08:33:19 <Scriptdaemon> Uh oh. I just realized, I did the same thing for Marble. Is it too late to change it now then?
08:34:45 <Scriptdaemon> I suppose I can add in a temporary move from where is it now to where it's supposed to be before the .marble=%VARIABLE%\.marble line. Would that would?
08:34:53 <Scriptdaemon> work*
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08:47:37 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon: there's nothing wrong with it, but I feel it's neater keeping things out of it.  For in settings I wouldn't bother changing it, for a .folder I might change it and put upgrade code in place to move it.
08:51:49 <Scriptdaemon> ChrisMorgan, would the upgrade code be permanent in case someone takes a long time to update, or would I eventually be able to remove it?
08:52:50 <ChrisMorgan> There's really no harm in leaving such upgrade code in permanently.  Just a few lines of simple code.
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13:02:37 <pa_7101> hi, will the installers leave any traces like registry entries on the PC?
13:06:56 <pa_7101> hello?
13:07:00 <pa_7101> anyone?
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17:26:00 <JohnTHaller> hello all
17:30:11 <Gizmokid2005> hello JohnTHaller
17:30:16 <JohnTHaller> hola
17:30:33 <JohnTHaller> how goes it
17:30:46 <Gizmokid2005> definitely been much better.
17:30:49 <Gizmokid2005> but I've been worse
17:30:50 <Gizmokid2005> yourself?
17:31:02 <JohnTHaller> hangin in.  almost caught up on sleep for a change
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17:33:28 <Gizmokid2005> I know that feeling.
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17:58:47 <acovrig> has anyone else had issues with JavaPortableLauncher?
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18:57:48 <Simeon> hi all
19:11:57 <ZachThibeau> howdy Simeon
19:11:59 <ZachThibeau> howdy John
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19:42:13 <RFretel> Hello!
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20:06:19 <Bensawsome> ohai
20:06:19 <Bensawsome> lol
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20:43:25 <Simeon> hi Zach, bye John :)
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21:27:11 <Thasmo> Hello guys! Just seen "portableapps.com" and many of my all-day apps are there - thats so great, because now I can sync those apps via dropbox and have all those apps like "Preinstalled" everywhere.
21:27:55 <Thasmo> I'm just wondering if theres a way to set a portable app as a default app for certain file types? WIndows doesn't give me the option to select portable apps - I guess because they're not registered in the registry.
21:29:05 <spgSCOTT> That's an interesting way of doing it, hadn't thought of that...although my PA.c collection takes up more than 2GB
21:30:01 <Thasmo> spgSCOTT, thats quite a lot. :>
21:30:12 <spgSCOTT> File associations? I vaguely remember there being mention of that...I think there was a program for it.
21:30:13 <Thasmo> you get 2 GB for free at dropbox
21:30:43 <spgSCOTT> Ah yes, check the preview for PA.c 2.0 page. it is on the cards as far as I know...
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21:30:53 <GizmoBot> OliverK is a programmer, podcaster, html spelunker and pretty handy with a screwdriver.  In short, not to be trifled with.
21:31:20 *** OliverK is now known as OliverK|Away
21:31:29 <Thasmo> spgSCOTT, where can I find that page?
21:31:56 <spgSCOTT> http://portableapps.com/node/24104
21:32:00 <Thasmo> thanks
21:32:05 <spgSCOTT> but it is only a brief mention...
21:33:19 <Thasmo> spgSCOTT, I see. I haven't used v1 either. What's it about? Management of portable apps?
21:33:45 <spgSCOTT> What do you mean? The menu?
21:33:56 <Thasmo> spgSCOTT, no the "2.0 platform"
21:34:32 <Thasmo> spgSCOTT, ah I guess the menu yes - just reading this.
21:35:44 <spgSCOTT> That is version 2 of the menu or Platform as it is called now. A graphical way of selecting/running your apps, as opposed to just finding them in explorer...and I just realised that my PA.c collection is actually about 1.8GB...but I have other stuff in dropbox as well...
21:36:30 <Thasmo> spgSCOTT, if you can convince some friends to use dropbox you get 250 MB extra for each accepted invite.
21:36:40 <Thasmo> and your friends get it too
21:37:08 <Thasmo> spgSCOTT, do you use 2.0 already? I mean, is it somehow stable, although its beta?
21:37:35 <spgSCOTT> yeah I know...but I only use it for sharing files, images etc forr forums...my apps are on a memory stick
21:38:04 <spgSCOTT> Yes, I have used 2 since it was released, and it has worked consistantly for me.
21:38:15 <Thasmo> spgSCOTT, alright. I'm using the apps at home and in the office via dropbox. No stick-carrying so.
21:38:54 <Thasmo> spgSCOTT, well thanks a lot for your great and fast help - I'm not used to this on IRC. :>
21:39:43 <spgSCOTT> no problem, i'm fairly new to this as well
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21:40:36 <Thasmo> spgSCOTT, ye I kinda start hating non-portable apps right now. xD
21:41:26 <spgSCOTT> I'm the same...I loathe installing something I can't find a portbale replacement for...I even install portable apps on my pc's as well
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21:44:36 <Thasmo> spgSCOTT, ok downloaded 2.0 beta5, I think I get the point. trying to import my already downloaded apps into this ...
21:46:02 <spgSCOTT> simple, once you have installed the platform, copy the folder of the app into X:\PortableApps\<your app folder>
21:46:57 <Thasmo> spgSCOTT, ah alright. Nice.
21:47:16 <Thasmo> spgSCOTT, sadly I just realized file assocciations still on the roadmap - not yet implemented.
21:49:09 <Thasmo> spgSCOTT, r u using windows 7?
21:49:28 <spgSCOTT> yes, it is...
21:49:39 <spgSCOTT> Yes, but not now
21:49:57 <spgSCOTT> sorry, I meant no not yet for the file associations
21:50:24 <Thasmo> spgSCOTT, do you know how to get rid of the app launcher/menu in the windows taskbar and only show it in the tray?
21:50:47 <spgSCOTT> Yes, just let me find it...it is in the forum somewhere
21:51:07 <spgSCOTT> http://portableapps.com/support/portable_apps_suite#disablewin7taskbar
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21:52:17 <Thasmo> spgSCOTT, ah thanks very much - you seem to be able to answer all questions I ask you. :>
21:52:46 <spgSCOTT> haha probably not...
21:53:26 <spgSCOTT> I think I am the only one that likes the 7 taskbar button...less clicks for me, seeing as I have most icons hidden
21:55:38 <Thasmo> spgSCOTT, so - just wondering, can you think of any other cool thungs related to portable apps which are interesting? I bet there's so much more I'm able to fall in love with. :>
21:56:37 <Thasmo> :>
21:56:38 <spgSCOTT> How do you mean?
21:57:18 <Thasmo> Just wondering if there are any other useful tools/tricks/files which makes this whole portable apps even a better experience. :>
21:58:25 <Thasmo> I mean I just use Dropbox for some weeks and it was a blast and now combined with portable apps its just AWESOME. :>
21:59:21 <spgSCOTT> I just like how there is pretty much a solution for everything here, and in a lot of cases, more than one solution
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21:59:39 <Thasmo> spgSCOTT, solutions for what in detail?
21:59:46 <Thasmo> running software portable?
22:01:04 <spgSCOTT> Even simple things like being able to access my files from Uni from somewhere else, or for being able to portablely program for my uni work (which is done in Unix there)
22:01:44 <Thasmo> spgSCOTT, ah I see.
22:02:03 <Thasmo> spgSCOTT, so youre running a linux OS right off your USB stick?
22:03:04 <spgSCOTT> no, but I can use programs from PA to do stuff in windows (of any flavour) which I learn at Uni in Unix
22:03:58 <Thasmo> spgSCOTT, any specific programs?
22:04:16 <Thasmo> just to get an impression of what you mean exactly.
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22:05:14 <spgSCOTT> Geany for the programming, PuTTY for connecting to the Uni, and WinSCP to get the files...that kinda thing...
22:05:51 <Thasmo> spgSCOTT, and you use the same on linux or some ports?
22:06:12 <Gizmokid2005> Thasmo: PuTTY isn't required on linux as most distros come with SSH built-in :)
22:06:25 <Thasmo> Gizmokid2005, eh yes - I guess so. :>
22:06:26 <Gizmokid2005> geany is on linux iirc, and WinSCP...well there's equivs of course :)
22:06:39 <Thasmo> I see.
22:06:46 <Thasmo> Gizmokid2005, who r u? :>
22:06:57 <Gizmokid2005> the friendly op :)
22:07:00 <spgSCOTT> I didn't know that and was trying to learn how to connect to the uni...Putty was the first thing I say that I recognised when googling SSH
22:07:27 <Thasmo> Gizmokid2005, whats your relation to the PA project? :>
22:07:52 <Thasmo> spgSCOTT, then try WinSCP too.
22:08:07 <spgSCOTT> I don't use Geany on linux, though I think it is there...just the little i know in terminal and a text editor...
22:08:13 <spgSCOTT> yes I know that now
22:09:09 <OliverK|Away> geany is originally linux
22:09:40 <OliverK|Away> linux ships with ssh.  Its NOT part of the kernel or bash, but it is ALWAYS on every linux OS
22:09:55 <Thasmo> OliverK|Away, do you know differences from geany to Komodo Edit or similar? Is it already mature?
22:09:57 <OliverK|Away> you can install and run linux distros from your flash driver
22:10:11 <OliverK|Away> komodo edit costs money, geany is free
22:10:20 <Thasmo> no no komodo edit not.
22:10:24 <Thasmo> only Komodo IDE
22:10:30 <OliverK|Away> geany is cross platform, komodo edit is not
22:10:33 <Gizmokid2005> Thasmo: I'm a developer
22:10:36 <Gizmokid2005> and the IRC op
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22:10:48 <OliverK|Away> true.  I had forgotten
22:10:52 <Thasmo> Gizmokid2005, so PA is a company in the US?
22:10:56 <OliverK|Away> I haven't used komodo edit a ton
22:11:03 <OliverK|Away> it was very slow when I last tried
22:11:17 <Thasmo> OliverK|Away, it's not the fastest, true.
22:11:41 <OliverK|Away> I haven't really used it
22:11:43 <Gizmokid2005> Thasmo: not really. I mean, yes, but no. Nobody works for PA
22:11:47 <Thasmo> OliverK|Away, searching a nice IDE for months now - no luck. I'm just not satisfied with all of them. xD
22:11:53 <OliverK|Away> hehe, yes.
22:12:01 <Gizmokid2005> everyone who develops is a contributer, donating their time, except for JohnTHaller, who is the owner.
22:12:19 <Thasmo> Gizmokid2005, I see.
22:12:30 <OliverK|Away> it takes time to find the right IDE.  My search stopped at geany and I am happy with it.
22:12:48 <Thasmo> OliverK|Away, is it compareable to Komodo or NetBeans?
22:12:59 <Gizmokid2005> Thasmo: yep. I've portablized Songbird and KVirc
22:13:04 <Gizmokid2005> and have another I'm working on
22:13:14 <OliverK|Away> well, it has compile\build\run buttons, does syntax highlight, has a plugin system
22:13:27 <Thasmo> OliverK|Away, does it run on JAVA?
22:13:29 <OliverK|Away> I like the scribble pad the best
22:13:36 <OliverK|Away> no, its C\C++
22:13:42 <Thasmo> OliverK|Away, ah - cute.
22:13:42 <OliverK|Away> but it has things for Java
22:13:49 <OliverK|Away> :D
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22:14:04 <OliverK|Away> it will do syntax highlighting for java I believe
22:14:07 <Thasmo> OliverK|Away, ye I don't like java applications running on windows. slow and clunky somehow.
22:14:18 <OliverK|Away> oh, like netbeans or eclipse? :D
22:14:38 <Thasmo> OliverK|Away, not sure - I don't like any of em if they run via JAVA xD
22:15:21 <OliverK|Away> I don't like stuff that is built with java. Minecraft is the only exception and even then I STILL wishh it would get ported to C++ or something better
22:15:31 <Thasmo> For me JAVA compared to C++ is like ASP compared to PHP - I guess.
22:15:56 <JohnTHaller> I don't know... once the JVM is up, the apps seem just as snappy to me.
22:16:04 <Thasmo> whats JVM?
22:16:13 <Thasmo> ow tha boss oO
22:16:39 <OliverK|Away> java virutal machine
22:16:42 <JohnTHaller> Java Virtual Machine.  The thing that runs the java code.  When first launched, it has to load up... roughly equivalent to booting up a small OS.
22:16:44 <OliverK|Away> its the backend that runs java
22:16:52 <OliverK|Away> eww . . .
22:17:03 <JohnTHaller> That's why the first time you run a Java app after booting Windows, it takes a few seconds.
22:17:06 <Thasmo> Yeah but it still needs a lot of RAM
22:17:29 <Thasmo> and somehow all JAVA apps on windows have a ugly, slow and unusable GUI.
22:17:39 <OliverK|Away> sad result of java
22:17:52 <OliverK|Away> its part of why I like microsoft office over open office.
22:18:02 <JohnTHaller> Only older apps not using the Windows GUI stuff... which is trivially easy to add these days.
22:18:05 <Thasmo> OliverK|Away, open office runs on java??
22:18:06 <OliverK|Away> I've had render issues with openoffice and its really slow
22:18:08 <OliverK|Away> yeah
22:18:10 <OliverK|Away> last I knew
22:18:25 <JohnTHaller> OpenOffice.org does not use Java at all.... unless you run a new document wizard.  Or use Base.
22:18:47 <OliverK|Away> then why does it require java to run?
22:18:57 <JohnTHaller> It doesn't.
22:19:00 <Thasmo> I see - but MS Office is still great, at least Word/Excel ...
22:19:10 <Thasmo> Dont like OO either.
22:19:17 <Thasmo> *OpenOffice
22:19:19 <JohnTHaller> Office and OpenOffice.org boot just about as quickly if you have the start with windows bits disabled.
22:19:39 <JohnTHaller> Office tries to sneak it into the install so it boots part of itself with Windows, making it feel faster but sucking up RAM when it's not running.,
22:19:58 <Thasmo> JohnTHaller, quick question - is it somehow possible to associate certain file extensions to portable apps?
22:20:13 <Thasmo> eh file types
22:20:27 <Thasmo> I mean I see it's on the roadmap of 2.0
22:20:44 <OliverK|Away> JohnTHaller: last I tried, it wouldn't start until I had java installed in some form or another.  Thanks to java portable I was able to get around it.
22:20:51 <OliverK|Away> I need to leave now
22:21:00 <Thasmo> OliverK|Away, cu
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22:22:03 <Thasmo> JohnTHaller, some stuff is mentioned about JAVA/JRE: http://www.openoffice.org/dev_docs/source/sys_reqs_30.html
22:22:07 <JohnTHaller> Thasmo: Yes.  You can use Cafe Mod, eXpresso or Portable File Association, all apps in our forums.  The 2.0 platform will add these in as wekll.
22:22:30 <JohnTHaller> Thasmo: As mentioned, wizards and OpenOffice.org Base (the database app) require Java.  Nothing else in OO.o does.
22:22:32 <Thasmo> JohnTHallern, whats best for windows vista/7? any preferences in general?
22:22:40 <Thasmo> JohnTHaller, I see.
22:22:53 <JohnTHaller> Portable File Associations seems to work best last I heard
22:24:11 <Thasmo> JohnTHaller, thanks a lot - ill try that then.
22:24:20 <spgSCOTT> had to test that with base...app just closes...(I have never had JAVA) is there maybe a way to tell the user that it needs java, or is that more a thing for the OO.o devs themselves? not that I really use it though.
22:24:26 <JohnTHaller> I stopped using Office when they added the ribbon and switched to OO.o fulltime.
22:24:55 <Thasmo> whats OO.o?
22:25:01 <spgSCOTT> openoffice
22:25:05 <JohnTHaller> It's OO.o itself.  I know the wizards just show a quick error (Need Java Please!) and then go back to the app.
22:25:09 <Thasmo> ah lol k - alrught.
22:25:20 <JohnTHaller> OO.o = OpenOffice.org.  Like PA.c = PortableApps.com
22:25:33 <spgSCOTT> ah thought so.
22:25:37 <Thasmo> Hrm I see - not used to those abbreviations.
22:26:15 <spgSCOTT> I kinda see what you mean with the ribbon...though I still prefer office
22:26:31 <Thasmo> spgSCOTT, "ribbon" - the new GUI on top?
22:27:03 <JohnTHaller> Yup.  Ribbon = fail.  It's great for newbie users that have never used office.  But if you've used office since the mid 90s, it's awful.
22:27:04 <Thasmo> or is it the circular open office logo?
22:27:13 <Thasmo> ah ye
22:27:20 <Thasmo> k k I see - yes it's totally awkward
22:27:46 <JohnTHaller> The whole mess of a toolbar with the little areas for different things that basically violates all published usability and GUI guidelines for every OS.
22:28:16 <spgSCOTT> yeah, being at school when it changed was a problem...but I am quite lazy and now that I have got used to it...still have trouble finding things though
22:28:45 <spgSCOTT> spent AGES trying to find the autocorrect...
22:29:38 <Thasmo> JohnTHallern, did you mean this one? http://portableapps.com/node/15583
22:30:51 <JohnTHaller> Yup.
22:32:37 <Thasmo> ok thanks
22:34:13 <Thasmo> JohnTHaller, errr ... i get a virus warning when downloading. oO
22:34:45 <spgSCOTT> what is alerting?
22:34:51 <JohnTHaller> It's a false-positive because the app is made with AutoIT (scripting language).  That's why we don't do any more AutoIT apps.
22:34:54 <spgSCOTT> I would suggest a false positive
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22:35:25 <Thasmo> spgSCOTT, JohnTHaller, I see. Just read the comments . indeed.
22:35:37 <Thasmo> But I can install it safely?
22:35:55 <JohnTHaller> Yes.  Or you can use one the others which I don't think are AutoIT.
22:36:11 <JohnTHaller> They use a different method for catching stuff and generally only work with files clicked on in Explorer windows.
22:37:51 <spgSCOTT> uploaded it to VT...wow they really hate AutoIT...
22:37:55 <Thasmo> JohnTHaller, so when using this, my AV will continue to warn me everytime a file is opened?
22:38:59 <JohnTHaller> Thasmo: Just when you run the app.  It stays running and then closes when done I think.  Either that or you run it once to make the associations and then again to remove them.  Don't quite remember.  But it'll be in a 2.0 beta shortly, which will work much better.  And have no A\V issues.
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22:39:36 <JohnTHaller> spgSCOTT: Yeah, it's always been an issue as AutoIT is used to write some malware and every app is basically the same base EXE with the script stuck on the end of the file.  So false popsitives are a huge issue.
22:40:00 <Thasmo> JohnTHaller, ok - looking forward trying it out - will be a really cool feature.
22:40:29 <spgSCOTT> yeah I have come across it before, but never to that extent...
22:40:33 <JohnTHaller> Until then you can also use FreeCommander and associate portable apps with it.  And even associate apps with downloads in Firefox (the launcher automatically makes them portable)
22:41:51 <Thasmo> JohnTHaller, thanks but I think I can wait depending on what "shortly" means in days. :>
22:42:22 <JohnTHaller> well, the next beta arrives within 7 :-P
22:42:57 <JohnTHaller> and 2.0 has an actual release date.  we won't be announcing it just yet though.
22:43:48 <Thasmo> and the feature is in the next beta?
22:43:57 <Thasmo> or did I misunderstand that.
22:45:28 <JohnTHaller> the next beta is categories/folders and theme engine
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22:46:40 <Thasmo> JohnTHaller, alright.
22:47:11 <Thasmo> JohnTHaller, anyway cool stuff. Felt in love with PA.c right away. :>
22:47:29 <Thasmo> And I even dont use it on a stick.
22:47:42 <spgSCOTT> ok, well that's me for now...xbox time see ya :)
22:47:43 <JohnTHaller> Cool, glad you like it.  Be sure and subscribe to the newsletter and you'll get a ping as soon as the next beta is posted.
22:47:57 <Thasmo> spgSCOTT, ciao and thanks for the help.
22:48:07 <JohnTHaller> Or watch RSS where you can also find out about each app on the 31 days of app-ness.
22:48:14 <JohnTHaller> later spgSCOTT
22:48:15 <spgSCOTT> np.
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22:48:34 <Thasmo> JohnTHaller, unhide it!! :>
22:49:03 <JohnTHaller> unhide what?
22:49:12 <Thasmo> the newsletter registration :>
22:49:59 <JohnTHaller> Ack.  It's here: http://portableapps.com/newsletter
22:50:17 <Thasmo> JohnTHaller, thanks - but where is it linked anyway? :>
22:50:28 <JohnTHaller> It would seeem the link is hiding.  I'll fix it
22:50:46 <Thasmo> JohnTHaller, k k.
22:51:24 <dboki89> JohnTHaller: are the strings for PAP 2.0 frozen and ready for translations, or are they still subject to change?
22:52:31 <JohnTHaller> still changing
22:52:41 <dboki89> ^^ Oh, and hi :)
22:54:32 <JohnTHaller> Ah the newsletter is still linked from the app page and from the sidebar Follow & Connect With Us
22:57:32 <Thasmo> JohnTHaller, I see. Still hidden imo. ;o) But nvm, I've even followed you on Twitter before knowing there's a newsletter.
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