00:22:22 *** AlleyKat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 00:39:20 *** ChrisMorgan (~ChrisMorg@unaffiliated/chrismorgan) has joined #portableapps 02:00:06 *** Gizmokid2005 has quit (Quit: Uh-oh!! The Gizmo is gone!!!! Good Riddance.) 02:02:27 *** Gizmokid2005 (~Gizmokid2@vps2.gizmokid2005.com) has joined #portableapps 02:02:29 Gizmokid2005 is the developer of KVIrc Portable: http://g2k5.us/4j and Songbird Portable: http://g2k5.us/4k 02:08:35 *** ChrisMorgan has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 02:34:49 *** AlleyKat (~Miranda@0x573a58b7.ronnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) has joined #portableapps 02:42:08 *** ZachThibeau is now known as ZachT|ZzZz 02:45:15 *** ChrisMorgan (~ChrisMorg@unaffiliated/chrismorgan) has joined #portableapps 02:55:14 ChrisMorgan: I've been working on the language environment variables in PAL, and I've found a few inconsistencies in their naming. So, as we're going to use our own variables, I've been thinking if I could change them. 02:55:36 Tell me more! 02:55:56 Hold on... 02:56:20 http://portableapps.chrismorgan.info/irc/logs/?t=2011-09-15#T21-40-34 02:57:00 Also, what about adding .NET version detection: 2.2 or 2.3? 02:58:47 Not 2.2, I think. I want to get 2.2 out fairly soon (if I didn't want beta testing done, I'd just skip 2.1.2...). How about I release 2.1.2 and 2.2 Beta 1 together later today? 03:00:39 *** JohnTHaller (~JohnTHall@cpe-98-14-114-27.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #portableapps 03:01:07 kAlug: so are you suggesting PortableApps.comLocale* -> PAL:Language* and throw away PortableApps.comLocaleWinName? 03:02:54 Releases: Great! Languages: no, just rename them. 03:03:39 Oh, BTW, how do you make Mercurial diff UTF-16LE files? 03:03:39 It would make far more sense to keep them all named the same 03:06:56 kAlug: http://portableapps.com/news/2011-09-16_-_nsis_portable_2.46.2_released#comment-183644 03:08:17 kAlug: requires an extension; I have one based on something on a mailing list ages ago; here's mine: http://pastebin.com/kdDGimxT; save that as BOM.py and enable it in ~/.hgrc or %USERPROFILE%\mercurial.ini on Windows or [repository]/.hg/hgrc anywhere with a value in the [extensions] section like "bom = ~/.hgexts/BOM.py" 03:09:52 Mercurial's binary-detection function is very foolishly implemented: mercurial.util, def binary(s): return bool(s and '\0' in s) 03:10:20 And UTF-16LE will almost always have null bytes in it, so it will be detected as binary... 03:10:44 It's one aspect of Mercurial that was distinctly poorly done. 03:11:23 JohnTHaller, kAlug: do we see value in PortableApps.comLocaleWinName once we have PortableApps.comLocaleName which is the same but in mixed case and sans LANG_? 03:11:47 The Platform will need to retain it until no apps are using PortableApps.comLocaleWinName, but the Launcher doesn't need to. 03:12:07 What apps are using that? 03:12:13 I say keep it just to be safe. Since some apps do use it. 03:12:20 I think... hmm... 03:13:17 kAlug: some do, but they tend to strip LANG_ from it... 03:13:26 Yeah 03:13:29 JohnTHaller: there's no problem in PAL with correcting references to it. 03:13:35 Ok 03:13:43 Or telling the user they've got to fix it. 03:15:02 But I'd like to refrain from doing anything beyond renaming variables until I've got my act together with PADT and it's ready to replace the PAL Generator, where it'll be much easier to manage such things, detecting potential problems and upgrading things well. 03:15:40 As long as it can still be run from a batch file or process for automation when you do that switch 03:17:25 ChrisMorgan: Thanks. Now I need to figure out how to make TortoiseHg use that... 03:17:42 JohnTHaller: I'll certainly be keeping support for that. 03:18:04 kAlug: NSISu revision look good to you? 03:18:27 Installing now... 03:19:38 kAlug: if you've got it installed locally, put BOM.py in %USERPROFILE%\hgexts\BOM.py or similar and refer to it in %USERPROFILE%\mercurial.ini with the full path and it'll work as soon as you next start an hg process (close all TortoiseHG windows and it'll close the thgw process) 03:23:40 kAlug: I've never tried using this extension on Windows, and the null bytes can do some slightly funny things in some shells; I've no idea what the effect of your diff will be but don't blame me if it looks weird. 03:24:31 JohnTHaller: I'd argue that it was easier to use [FilesMove], but your way is OK too. 03:24:37 I also have another extension which I wrote which decodes UTF-16LE to UTF-8 before diffing it, but I have it disabled; I can't remember what was wrong with it, but there was something that it ended up messing up or not coping with properly. 03:25:09 kAlug: Whenever I can avoid a file move, I do it. It makes crashes safer. It's the way the older NSISu worked, too. 03:25:12 kAlug: makes it a tad safer and reduces the work in the launcher 03:25:22 I like the !include way better. 03:28:34 JohnTHaller: Does the website's Tracker have a RSS/Atom feed? 03:29:07 It's disabled to reduce load. 03:29:33 I don't think it worked right with comments anyway 03:29:39 (ie, it'd only show new topics) 03:30:10 Ok, all apps are up to date again. Wanted to start fresh for the weekend. 03:30:28 ChrisMorgan: The extension is working in the shell, it's just TortoiseHg's GUI that doesn't use it. I think it uses a custom diff code. 03:30:48 Think I have the Drupal upgrade issue narrowed down. Running a final real upgrade from D6 to D7 on a backup of the site and DB from earlier this week tomorrow. If all goes well, we could be on Drupal 7 on Sunday. 03:31:07 kAlug: I suppose if it's starting kdiff3 then kdiff3 will decide on its own whether it's binary or not... 03:31:33 JohnTHaller: sounds good! 03:32:09 I dropped it from the package. Fortunately it can start an external differ very easily... 03:32:11 JohnTHaller: Japanese.locale is bad, line 240 03:32:12 Yeah. Really looking forward to getting that done. Also finishing our upgrade to Delphi XE2 this weekend and should be able to push out PR4 soon after. 03:32:28 Lunch time 03:32:30 ChrisMorgan: In what, NSISu? I didn't change anything within that from last release? 03:33:04 .locale -> PAP, I guess. 03:34:08 Confirmed. Multiline string. 03:34:26 And incomplete translation. 03:34:32 Ok, Fixed it locally 03:34:53 Well, except the incomplete part 03:36:36 Designer finally has time to finish up our themes, too. Should have semi-final versions for PR4 in the next few days and final versions within the week. 03:38:46 *** GordCaswell (~GordCaswe@unaffiliated/ve4jhj) has joined #portableapps 03:38:51 GordCaswell is the developer of Armagetron Advanced Portable, Evince Portable & ZSoft Uninstaller Portable 03:40:18 Please keep the current Beveled White theme... even it not being white. 03:40:44 Small fix in the PAP's Brazilian translation: http://minus.com/lKjWq9X98GWRA 03:41:57 John: RE: Delphi XE2: did you ever hear back from Embarcadero? 03:42:20 We should be preserving most of em. We're gonna have the Aero-ish one (with a different name we can translate... maybe Modern). The old-school Beveled one (called Classic). The new current default (which we'll call Retro). A new theme with a high-gloss look called Glassy. And a nice new default that's very simple and much brighter than the current. 03:42:25 GordCaswell: Hear what? 03:42:44 a while ago, you were contacting them about getting licenses or something 03:42:51 Oh, not yet, no 03:43:30 They were busy prepping for the release and promoting. They're doing a national tour now. I should be chatting with them within the next month. 03:44:04 ah, ok. hopefully they're open to making a deal. Only time will tell. 03:45:13 I think they will be. Especially if they can use us as a case study or for free promotion. I talked to them about a possible portable version of it a couple years ago. They may still be open to that, too 03:46:12 Especially since they'd be giving away licenses they wouldn't normally sell and they could wind up making more from paid customers as a result 03:46:22 The current Aero-ish seems a bit plain instead of Aero. 03:47:17 It's using a near-exact copy of the real aero layer. It looks plainer when it's not transparent and blurry underneath 03:49:43 Man there have been a lot of updates lately 03:59:56 OK, back from lunch now. 04:00:22 Lunch? It's midnight. What are you, upside down? 04:00:51 ChineseSimplified.locale line 292 is bad too 04:01:08 ~2pm, right? 04:01:14 Yep 04:01:33 ChrisMorgan: Got it, thanks. 04:01:39 *** ronjn (ronjn@dslb-088-067-093-198.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #portableapps 04:01:57 And Korean.locale line 114-116, 134-138, 221-223, 225-227, 230-232 04:02:37 Oh, ChrisMorgan and kAlug, I'm making a change based on the uTorrent issue earlier this week. All apps compiled as an online installer with PA.c Installer will require an MD5, making any issue of sneaking something in on us near-impossible (without a lot of work to specifically match that MD5) 04:02:43 *** ronjn___ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 04:03:30 I suppose it's for the best for brand integrity. 04:03:52 Though less convenient for some which fetch a constant URL. 04:03:54 "lot of work"? Do you have a quantum supercomputer? 04:04:25 ChrisMorgan: Thanks, got all 5 of those in Korean 04:05:01 There are very few that do a constant URL. uTorrent was one of the only ones. The workaround is we host the freeware download (more bandwidth, but we can ensure integrity end to end). 04:05:33 Wouldn't that be redistribution? 04:05:36 The only other one that will need a fix is Firefox Aurora and Nightly. So I'm gonna add in a downloader specifically for them as a custom launcher with a simple warning. 04:05:46 kAlug: Yes, but it's unaltered redistribution :) 04:06:55 BTW, have you added jPortable support to Chrome and Iron Portable? 04:07:11 Not yet. Focusing on platform first. Gonna do em all at the same time. 04:08:13 I can download them and make the neccessary changes, and then send them to you. 04:08:24 kAlug: Sure if you have time :) 04:08:51 OK, here are some suggestions to the language variable naming: http://p.kalug.net/1 04:09:25 I hate them all. 04:12:58 Well, ok they're fine 04:13:33 kAlug: gone... 04:14:49 http://p.kalug.net/7 04:17:12 Not enamoured with the changes. I think if we're going to change them, we may as well make them consistent. Why should glibc be locale rather than language? 04:18:31 This is how glibc calls it. But we can change that too. 04:19:04 LocaleID will remain a locale, because it's a locale, not a language. 04:20:50 Why don't we just call them all Locale? Then only one thing needs a-changing 04:26:48 Because some of them are languages, not locales :) 04:26:51 Hold on... 04:27:30 Yeah, I know. I think just keeping them as-is name-wise is easiest. Just for those of us who know them. Which would really be like 6 of us :) 04:27:55 http://p.kalug.net/2 04:28:54 Can we give a more meaningful name to LanguageCode? Suggestions? 04:30:16 kAlug: That 04:30:23 's what it's called: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms533052.aspx 04:31:39 You've already pointed me to that. Not many people know that, though. 04:31:56 But that is the official nomenclature, so we shouldn't change it 04:33:08 ChrisMorgan: I suggest releasing PAL 2.2 Beta 1 as-is and adding the language changes in Beta 2. There is already enough new code to test. 04:33:21 JohnTHaller: we have LanguageCustom 04:33:53 Any progress and what we discussed around having a PortableAppsRoot variable (for maintaing the parent directory of PortableApps and Documents)? 04:35:56 OK. I liked this one: http://p.kalug.net/7 04:36:42 *** Decipher_Code (~chatzilla@96-37-155-57.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com) has joined #portableapps 04:37:45 And what should PAL do with the PA.c directory variables when they aren't already set? 04:38:41 kAlug: PortableAppsRoot would just be two directories up from the AppNamePortable.exe's directory. Or Root if it's only one directory up from root or in root. It wouldn't be dependent on the platform 04:39:30 Hola John Haller 04:39:31 That way all apps can do relative paths to a Documents directory in the standard layout with or without the platform 04:39:35 hola Decipher_Code 04:40:08 JohnTHaller: that would be PortableApps.comDocuments, though? 04:40:51 Nope. We can do that, too, but this would also work if the user was doing a PortableApps and a Files directory in the root and other things under there. 04:41:05 PortableApps.comDocuments would be different as we previously discussed. 04:41:32 Would you reconsider officlally releasing apps that are written using AutoIt? 04:41:47 Decipher_Code: do you mean the app or the launcher? 04:41:59 app 04:42:23 What is it? 04:43:15 As a general rule, we don't do AutoIT stuff anymore due to false positives in antivirus/antimalware programs. 04:43:31 CA-Launcher - a portable app compesor and launcher. It extracts the app to the host temp dir and executes it 04:44:20 That sounds more like a utility analogous to PA.c Launcher and PA.c AppCompactor than it's own app 04:45:05 It utilizes 7-Zip by Igor Palvov and is very configurable 04:45:39 What's the point of keeping an app in a zip file and extracting it to run it? 04:46:18 Read only media mainly but if you have a slow removable drive then it would also be convient 04:46:45 #2 is exactly was I was going to say. 04:47:01 Which apps would you use it with? 04:47:06 Any 04:47:16 We wouldn't support our apps with it, though. 04:48:01 Thats fine I quess but would you release it aslong as it met expectations? 04:48:50 I'd tend to say no, since we wouldn't support it with our stuff and due to the AutoIT issue. I suppose actually seeing it would help. kAlug, ChrisMorgan, any thoughts? 04:49:17 I have an idea... not sure if AutoIt's license allows it, but... is the AutoIt executable itself flagged? 04:49:36 kAlug: sure 04:49:43 AutoIT has restrictions on redistribution in altered packages 04:49:55 Decipher_Code: where's the hope page for this? 04:50:16 The fact that I can't find it immediately tends to indicate to me that it's not a very popular app, either. 04:50:17 I will post a link shortly. There is not a posting currently. 04:50:33 It's still a work in progress. 04:51:06 Ah; it's a new piece of software. 04:51:21 We tried the approach of instant apps a long while back, apps that were zipped up and extracted, but the performance was worse in most cases. Especially startup time. 04:51:28 JohnTHaller: Do you have any recent (this year) statistics regarding AutoIt being considered malware? 04:51:50 U3 tried the approach initially, too, a number of years ago, and it was eventually dropped there, too. Well before they went belly-up. 04:52:06 kAlug: It does seem to crop up as an issue several times a year. 04:52:08 There are reports of Chrome Portable taking up to 50 secs to load a page. 04:52:56 And there's also the constant read/writes. 04:53:10 It's basically live mode but with writing back. 04:55:55 Here it is http://www.mediafire.com/?3t4zcexv4ve580w check it out 04:56:18 Hmm, AutoIt seems to be fairing better than it used to. JkDefragGUI.exe (but which is now fairly old) got 2/42 in March, trying it again now. 04:56:59 Rising is the only one which complains of the AutoIt installer (Trojan.Win32.Autoit.ewh) 04:57:00 Yeah, they seem to whitelist stuff after it's been out for a while. Well, most do. But a couple still crop up randomly calling it a virus. 04:57:28 JkDefragGUI.exe is only detected by TheHacker, which I've never heard of, as Trojan/Dropper.gen 04:57:30 New stuff will randomly crop up as a virus either right away or soon after. At least every release did back when we supported AutoIT. 04:58:02 But as I said, that was also built with an old version of AutoIt. 04:58:24 Decipher_Code: upload your main built executable to http://virustotal.com 04:58:36 of course 04:59:19 I've got it going now, actually - http://www.virustotal.com/file-scan/report.html?id=8f3d025d310e2b3bc3c2d5fe34895f8f11a2f8733479376b4d38efe463411734-1316235278 04:59:44 0/44 05:00:37 Hmm... and I can't download it myself for some reason. MediaFire doesn't like me :-) 05:01:56 I am very unhappy to report that when testing just the executable it is 1/44 05:02:02 ByteHero 1.0.0.1 2011.09.13 Trojan.Spy.Gen.b 05:02:51 I've never heard of this anit-virus software though. 05:03:14 Nor me. 05:03:59 JohnTHaller: What would be the steps for a third-party portable app to become official? 05:04:23 Same as the others. Post in beta forums, community tested, then we see if it makes sense based on the app 05:04:41 But we have a pretty hard and fast no AutoIT apps for a while now. 05:06:59 OK, thanks. I'm not sure of what I'm going to do with the versioning... 05:07:10 .seen scriptdaemon 05:07:11 Sorry, I haven't seen scriptdaemon around. 05:07:52 Thanks for your time JohnTHAller ;) 05:09:02 Are these language variables names final? PAL:LanguageCode, PAL:LanguageCode2, PAL:LanguageCode3, PAL:LocaleGlibc, PAL:LocaleID, PAL:LocaleNSIS 05:15:37 Alright, I'm crashing. Gnight all. 05:15:50 *** JohnTHaller has parted #portableapps (None) 05:36:59 *** Das_Wunder has quit (Quit: Running for my life!) 05:44:16 *** kAlug has quit (Quit: Dream is collapsing) 05:44:55 *** GordCaswell has quit (Quit: Leaving.) 06:41:10 *** kaeos (~Miranda@90.164.135.241) has joined #portableapps 07:39:48 *** ChrisMorgan has quit (Quit: Leaving.) 07:57:16 *** kaeos has quit (Quit: kaeos) 08:37:24 *** AlleyKat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 08:55:35 *** Decipher_Code has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0.2/20110902133214]) 08:56:29 *** KaptenRodSkagg (~KaptenRod@megan.wm.net) has joined #portableapps 09:48:11 *** KaptenRodSkagg has quit (Quit: Leaving) 11:16:50 *** benedikt93 (~benedikt9@unaffiliated/benedikt93) has joined #portableapps 11:24:07 *** sar3th (~sar3th@unaffiliated/sar3th) has joined #portableapps 11:50:31 *** Spellbreaker (~Spellbrea@hmbg-4d06e10d.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #portableapps 11:51:03 Hi there. Anyone else noticed virus alert on the latest NSIS Version? 11:59:17 *** ChrisMorgan (~ChrisMorg@unaffiliated/chrismorgan) has joined #portableapps 12:04:12 *** MaienM (~MaienM-F@unaffiliated/maienm) has joined #portableapps 12:14:42 Seems to be a false-positive, virustotal only has 3 results ( Trojan.ATRAPS ) 12:23:24 *** ZachT|ZzZz is now known as ZachThibeau 12:34:28 *** TPFC-SYSTEM (~opera@cs181105044.pp.htv.fi) has joined #portableapps 13:42:27 *** ChrisMorgan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 13:42:31 *** ChrisMorgan1 (~ChrisMorg@unaffiliated/chrismorgan) has joined #portableapps 13:44:29 *** ChrisMorgan (~ChrisMorg@unaffiliated/chrismorgan) has joined #portableapps 13:44:34 *** ChrisMorgan1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 13:51:51 *** ChrisMorgan has quit (Quit: Leaving.) 13:52:01 *** ChrisMorgan (~ChrisMorg@unaffiliated/chrismorgan) has joined #portableapps 13:53:46 *** Das_Wunder (~Hei@cpe-075-183-169-246.sc.res.rr.com) has joined #portableapps 14:42:14 *** ChrisMorgan has quit (Quit: Leaving.) 15:56:18 *** ZachThibeau is now known as ZachT|AFK 16:49:54 *** andreasma (~andi@p5B07CC69.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #portableapps 17:34:12 *** Spellbreaker has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17:49:37 *** rainroom69 (~RainrooM@d54C162A3.access.telenet.be) has joined #portableapps 18:06:35 *** Das_Wunder has quit (Quit: Running for my life!) 18:54:53 *** rainroom69 has quit (Quit: Leaving.) 19:01:44 *** TPFC-SYSTEM has quit (Quit: TPFC-SYSTEM) 19:54:34 *** GizmoBot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 20:01:32 *** Gizmokid2005 has quit (Quit: Uh-oh!! The Gizmo is gone!!!! Good Riddance.) 20:04:55 *** Gizmokid2005 (~Gizmokid2@vps2.gizmokid2005.com) has joined #portableapps 20:26:32 *** ZachT|AFK is now known as ZachThibeau 20:42:58 *** PlauSocks|AFK is now known as PlauSocks 20:50:49 *** benedikt93 has quit (Quit: Bye ;)) 20:52:40 *** andreasma has quit (Quit: Verlassend) 21:07:19 *** gluxon (47ea6968@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.234.105.104) has joined #portableapps 21:07:41 *** gluxon is now known as Guest56216 21:07:55 *** Guest56216 has quit (Client Quit) 21:10:07 *** PlauSocks is now known as PlauSocks|AFK 21:45:53 *** Das_Wunder (~Hei@cpe-075-183-169-246.sc.res.rr.com) has joined #portableapps 22:29:15 *** sar3th has quit (Quit: "Our culture doesn't get smarter, it just finds new ways of being retarded.") 23:22:48 *** PlauSocks|AFK is now known as PlauSocks 23:37:20 *** ptmb (~Jose@a81-84-158-119.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #portableapps