IRC Log from 2009-09-10
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00:15:25 <kai_62656> gluxon!
00:15:27 <kai_62656> :P
00:15:54 <Chazz> kai_62656!
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00:16:43 <B3ns4ws0m3> >_>
00:16:56 <kai_62656> ^^
00:17:02 <B3ns4ws0m3> vv
00:17:05 <B3ns4ws0m3> lol
00:17:09 <B3ns4ws0m3> wazzup kai_62656?
00:17:09 <kai_62656> ..
00:17:13 <kai_62656> :P
00:17:27 <kai_62656> not much
00:20:09 <gluxon> kai!
00:20:23 <gluxon> dude... Ben... That's your worse nick yet!
00:20:38 <Chazz> gluxon, -ot
00:20:42 <gluxon> .def gluxon is awesome
00:20:42 <GizmoBot> gluxon: Def manipulation is only allowed in #gizmokid2005, #gizmokid2005-def
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00:40:21 <powerjuce> wassup all
00:40:27 <kai_62656> not much
00:40:32 <kai_62656> 4me
00:40:43 <Chazz> hey powerjuce :D
00:41:18 <powerjuce> wassup Chazz
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01:14:56 <JohnTHaller> hola
01:15:07 <Chazz> hey JohnTHaller :D
01:15:09 <KevinPorter> Long time no see JohnTHaller. :)
01:15:12 <sar3th> hi JohnTHaller :)
01:15:17 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, busy couple weeks
01:15:46 <JohnTHaller> only popped on twice last week
01:15:52 <KevinPorter> Same here, I'm knee deep in homework as of late.
01:16:14 <ZachThibeau> howdy JohnTHaller
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01:18:47 <Chazz> hey JohnTHaller, jw, have you checked out Bash Portable yet?
01:18:59 <Gizmokid2005> wow, hello JohnTHaller :)
01:19:34 <JohnTHaller> hi ZachT|ZzZz
01:19:49 <ZachT|ZzZz> night all
01:19:57 <ZachT|ZzZz> I got work early in the morning
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01:36:57 <JohnTHaller> Any Gimp users: http://portableapps.com/node/19399#comment-127476
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01:57:46 <PatrickPatience> Just deep breaths everyone, I've arrived.
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01:58:42 <sar3th> hi PatrickPatience
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02:41:12 <Bensawsome> BLARGAG
02:41:21 <Bensawsome> oh shoot wrong channel
02:45:38 *** ChrisMorgan (i=cb2d06b9@gateway/web/freenode/x-aphuyplagghazjea) has joined #portableapps
02:45:38 <GizmoBot> ChrisMorgan is a PortableApps.com Developer (BPBible, Inkscape et al), currently involved with work on the PortableApps.com Launcher.
02:45:43 <ChrisMorgan> Hey guys :-)
02:46:07 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: have you read my blog post about languages etc.? Any comments?
02:47:36 <JohnTHaller> i think php is a pretty definite no
02:47:39 <ChrisMorgan> How's you're ankle, JohnTHaller?
02:47:53 <ChrisMorgan> Hmm... what reasons?
02:47:59 * Chazz still thinks we should use Perl
02:48:01 <JohnTHaller> php isn't really designed for local apps. and there's not a lot of code or expertise local app-wise out there
02:48:08 <JohnTHaller> I'm not touching Perl
02:48:12 <Chazz> D:
02:48:21 <ChrisMorgan> Chazz: you knew it was coming :P
02:48:30 <Chazz> ChrisMorgan, i still wanted to put it out there
02:48:41 * ChrisMorgan has been getting lots of PHP-GTK experience... yesterday he got full splash screen stuff while still loading the application working for his PHP-GTK Library :-)
02:48:42 <JohnTHaller> Mind you, I like PHP. I code it myself for stuff on PA.c.
02:48:46 <ChrisMorgan> Chazz: I know :P
02:49:05 <Chazz> JohnTHaller, just wondering, what's wrong with Perl?
02:49:11 <JohnTHaller> And I know it better than Python. But it seems really immature in the app space.
02:49:47 <ChrisMorgan> Personally I don't think anything is wrong with PHP-GTK. In my experience so far, it can do all the GTK stuff any other GTK application can do.
02:50:05 <Chazz> ChrisMorgan, we'd need to include the PHP runtimes and stuff
02:50:17 <ChrisMorgan> (Except for the fact that the current release is a bit out of date; they're expecting a new build out very soon with new GTK libraries etc.)
02:50:22 <JohnTHaller> I'm sure. But few people know it. If we're gonna move off Delphi, I'd like to move to something more standard.
02:50:29 <Chazz> C++?
02:50:34 <ChrisMorgan> Chazz: yes. PHP5+GTK2+PHP-GTK2 < 9MB.
02:50:41 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, it's basically gonna be C++ or Python.
02:50:43 <Chazz> ChrisMorgan, wow O_O
02:50:48 <ChrisMorgan> C++ and wxWidgets then in my opinion.
02:50:52 <ChrisMorgan> Python is just too big.
02:51:01 <sar3th> C++ and Qt if you ask me ;)
02:51:09 <ChrisMorgan> Qt is even bigger.
02:51:27 <sar3th> you can compile small statically linked binaries with it
02:51:47 <ChrisMorgan> Smaller, but still not as small as wxWidgets as I understand it
02:51:51 * Chazz thinks Python and wx
02:52:11 <ChrisMorgan> Zach said he could get static, optimised wxC++ things to about a MB
02:52:29 <ChrisMorgan> Chazz: using py2exe, that's about 20MB.
02:52:37 <ChrisMorgan> Well, 15-20MB
02:52:44 <Chazz> D:
02:52:47 <sar3th> using qt, probably ~5mb :(
02:52:50 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: what did you think of my comments on the launchers?
02:53:04 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, thinking about Qt as well. One of our upcoming hardware partners is using it.
02:53:11 <ChrisMorgan> Nokia? :P
02:53:20 <JohnTHaller> :-P
02:53:23 <Chazz> ooh! We're finally getting hardware partners? :D
02:53:26 <ChrisMorgan> *sigh* g2g now for a "quick meeting" of Y12 students...
02:53:34 <Chazz> bye ChrisMorgan :(
02:53:36 <ChrisMorgan> bbs hopefully
02:53:37 <JohnTHaller> On launchers, I think we can do more with the generic launcher than you think we can. Some apps we'll need custom for a bit
02:53:50 <ChrisMorgan> I'm looking forward to seeing it :-)
02:54:10 <ChrisMorgan> Is that coming out "soon"?
02:54:11 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, I know. Still working on it.
02:54:17 <JohnTHaller> Been on heel duty a lot lately
02:54:21 <ChrisMorgan> Get better quickly :-)
02:54:28 <JohnTHaller> It's progressing. I walked without a limp for the first time in weeks today
02:54:34 <ChrisMorgan> Good :-)
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03:01:16 <GizmoBot> ChrisMorgan is a PortableApps.com Developer (BPBible, Inkscape et al), currently involved with work on the PortableApps.com Launcher.
03:01:40 <ChrisMorgan> Hello once more :-)
03:02:27 <sar3th> welcome back ChrisMorgan
03:03:00 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: I think that if we chuck out the launcher bit of my musings, then we could use Roadsend PHP to compile PHP-GTK, and use a fully compiled platform still, with PHP.
03:03:24 <ChrisMorgan> As for fatal errors and all that, I've got a full fatal-error-catching thing via output buffering :-)
03:03:40 <ChrisMorgan> I'm separating all I can from Manta into a separate PHP-GTK Library.
03:04:44 <ChrisMorgan> (Of course, Roadsend PHP 2.9.3, which adds support for PHP5 and PHP-GTK, has no binaries for Windows quite yet)
03:05:01 <JohnTHaller> I'm still not really sold on PHP for local apps at all. It just doesn't seem to be the right language. And is way to immature.
03:05:12 <ChrisMorgan> I reckon that PHP-GTK is worthwhile rudimetary feasability investigation, say a simple version of the platform in it.
03:05:44 <sar3th> i agree with JohnTHaller's statement about php not being the language for local usage
03:05:58 <ChrisMorgan> What doesn't seem right about it? Just its history and all? And for immaturity I presume you just mean that it isn't much used for GUI stuff?
03:06:15 <ChrisMorgan> PHP-GTK is actually 7 years old, and has quite a reasonable community.
03:06:39 <JohnTHaller> It would take a LOT to sell me on it.
03:07:08 <ChrisMorgan> Hmm... I'd like to try, but I'm rather busy until next year :-(
03:08:08 <ChrisMorgan> Preparing a talk until next Wednesday... then in the Grampians for week one of the holidays, week two I'll probably be doing some "studying" whatever that is, then back to school for term 4 - trial exams, final revision, final exams, then off to India until next year.
03:08:48 <ChrisMorgan> What sort of timeframe where you thinking of with changing the language?
03:09:22 <JohnTHaller> not for a while yet.
03:09:29 <ChrisMorgan> I think wxC++ is likely to win out
03:09:35 <JohnTHaller> we need to get business stuff moving first so we're ok future-wise financially
03:10:12 <ChrisMorgan> Good :-)
03:10:29 <ChrisMorgan> Do you reckon you'll end up having a staff?
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03:13:02 * ChrisMorgan wonders whether JohnTHaller will come back in... he's online again, but not in here...
03:13:25 <Chazz> ...
03:14:18 <ChrisMorgan> Mind you, it is quarter past 11 for him
03:14:25 <Chazz> ya, good point
03:15:25 <sar3th> mind you, it's quarter past 05 am for me XD
03:15:32 <ChrisMorgan> sar3th: BED!
03:15:57 <Chazz> lol
03:16:07 <ChrisMorgan> I really wonder whether we should have a health policy in place here... have a bot to ban people between midnight and six in the morning in their own timezone :P
03:16:19 <Chazz> lol
03:16:21 <sar3th> xD
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03:16:24 <Chazz> ChrisMorgan, NOES!
03:16:28 <JohnTHaller> sorry crashed
03:16:33 <JohnTHaller> but I should be getting to bed...
03:16:34 <ChrisMorgan> Hello again :-)
03:16:35 <ChrisMorgan> I think that branching is probably the best way to handle the rewrite if we can't convince everyone what's the best platform. Up to as many branches for different combinations as people are willing to work on, and then analyse them as work goes on... say after a couple of months or however long, compare them all for functionality, who can maintain/has maintained it, stability, etc. etc.
03:16:42 <ChrisMorgan> Yeah, goodnight
03:16:46 <ChrisMorgan> Pidgin?
03:16:56 <JohnTHaller> Pidgin
03:17:02 <Chazz> night JohnTHaller
03:17:42 <ChrisMorgan> But the business side of things is more important at the moment, even if not so apparent to the multitudes.
03:18:09 <ChrisMorgan> How long do you reckon it'll be till we get PortableApps.com-branded/including products on the market? Any coming out soon?
03:19:41 <ChrisMorgan> Anyway, I'm not necessarily saying PHP-GTK is the best thing, just that it's a possibility; if I were to be involved with it, it'd probably be more useful to me in getting skills in the longer run if I were to learn wxC++.
03:20:11 <ChrisMorgan> It'd be good having more shared work on the platform some time.
03:20:30 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: it's Delphi 2006 isn't it? And you can't buy it any more?
03:20:35 <JohnTHaller> ChrisMorgan: first partner could be announced in 2 months.
03:20:50 <ChrisMorgan> Oo :-)
03:20:50 <JohnTHaller> delphi 2006. i may switch it to 2010 and drop win9x and go unicode, though
03:21:03 <ChrisMorgan> I thought it was more than that, an addon or something?
03:21:12 <ChrisMorgan> I reckon we're ready to drop 9x.
03:21:24 <ChrisMorgan> Just one last legacy platform, and then leave 'em.
03:21:27 <JohnTHaller> nope. you have to upgrade delphi
03:21:51 <ChrisMorgan> Oh, OK. Glad to hear I was wrong :-)
03:21:51 <JohnTHaller> yeah, think 2.0 will be it, then make the switch. so we can support vietnamese and all the other langs people want
03:22:07 <ChrisMorgan> Yeah. Indic languages are a big chunk too.
03:22:26 <JohnTHaller> transparent PNG is built in to the new delphi and should work to the desktop with a couple tweaks
03:22:56 <ChrisMorgan> That'd be nice :-)
03:23:07 <ChrisMorgan> I don't care any more, our school has no more Windows 98 machines... I'm on a nice fast XP machine here in the library now :-)
03:23:48 <JohnTHaller> yeah. it's more about the cash to get the new release and the recoding necessary (which seems to be minor)
03:25:24 <Chazz> my school still has win98 D:
03:26:51 <Chazz> so, JohnTHaller, after 2.0, PAP won't support Win9x at all?
03:27:47 <JohnTHaller> prob not
03:27:51 <JohnTHaller> holding us back
03:28:02 <Chazz> oh, ok
03:29:49 <JohnTHaller> gnight all
03:29:57 <Chazz> night JoeYoung
03:30:01 <Chazz> erm, JohnTHaller
03:30:11 <JoeYoung> nite :)
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03:30:30 <Chazz> lol, sorry JoeYoung :P
03:30:32 <ChrisMorgan> (pointed) goodnight sar3th ;-)
03:31:03 <sar3th> lolz
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03:31:54 <Chazz> D:
03:33:18 <sar3th> D:
03:33:26 <sar3th> i thought he meant i should go >_>
03:33:29 <sar3th> sleep well Chazz
03:33:35 <sar3th> *chrismorgan
03:33:41 * Chazz thought he did too
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03:58:38 <GizmoBot> ChrisMorgan is a PortableApps.com Developer (BPBible, Inkscape et al), currently involved with work on the PortableApps.com Launcher.
03:58:50 <sar3th> you are...awake! :D
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05:00:40 <GizmoBot> sar3th sets mode +ohai all
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07:42:24 <Horusofoz> Howdy all :)
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09:42:09 <GizmoBot> ChrisMorgan is a PortableApps.com Developer (BPBible, Inkscape et al), currently involved with work on the PortableApps.com Launcher.
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09:46:33 <GizmoBot> SergentSiler is the awsomest and is... OMG!!! PIE!!! <3
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10:17:41 <GizmoBot> sar3th sets mode +ohai all
10:17:51 <ChrisMorgan> +ohai sar3th
10:18:49 <sar3th> hey ChrisMorgan
10:18:54 <sar3th> already awake? .O
10:18:56 <sar3th> *:O
10:19:06 <ChrisMorgan> .t AEST
10:19:06 <GizmoBot> Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:19:06 AEST
10:19:19 <sar3th> oh wow
10:19:28 <sar3th> .t MEST
10:19:28 <GizmoBot> Thu, 10 Sep 2009 12:19:28 MEST
10:43:04 <dbdii407> .t
10:43:04 <GizmoBot> Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:43:04 GMT
10:43:26 <dbdii407> Gah. I thought that was pabot. *slams head against wall*
10:43:39 <ChrisMorgan> pabot is gone now and forevermore.
10:44:00 <dbdii407> rmccue must be so proud. :P
10:44:16 <ChrisMorgan> He had it as a service, thus logging to his computer... almost 80GB of logs.
10:44:48 <dbdii407> palogbot logs. O.o
10:44:59 <ChrisMorgan> No, pabot logs.
10:45:16 <dbdii407> How in the world does pabot log?
10:45:23 <ChrisMorgan> Logging phenny messages.
10:45:26 <ChrisMorgan> Not the channel logs.
10:45:36 <dbdii407> Ah. Well. That's his fault. :P
10:45:58 <dbdii407> I knew palogbot logged the channel. That's about it.
10:46:21 <ChrisMorgan> It was to try and increase stability... due to the quality of his connection though it didn't fix it as much as we'd have liked :-(
10:56:36 <ChrisMorgan> "Let's try troubleshooting this issue.", when I've reported that the AC adapter is kaput most of the time and the 1.5 year old battery only lasts for 10 minutes... :/ I s'pose they've got to confirm it all...
10:57:50 <sar3th> ChrisMorgan: i heard you made your own generic portable launcher, is that right?
10:58:00 <ChrisMorgan> ya, CPALT.
10:59:11 <sar3th> cool
11:00:47 <sar3th> i'm thinking about coding a proof-of-concept launcher in qt
11:00:59 <ChrisMorgan> Don't bother really.
11:01:06 <ChrisMorgan> The official generic launcher is coming very soon.
11:01:18 <ChrisMorgan> And what parts of it would need a GUI, Qt?
11:02:09 <sar3th> qt is more than a gui ;)
11:02:20 <ChrisMorgan> Yeah, but surely C++ would be good enough?
11:02:22 <ChrisMorgan> Or NSIS?
11:02:57 <sar3th> idk, i'm quite inexperienced at standalone c++
11:04:16 <sar3th> and we already have you CPALT for nsis
11:04:41 <ChrisMorgan> The official one is also in NSIS as I understand it.
11:04:56 <ChrisMorgan> Based partially on what John had done already and partially on my work
11:05:29 <sar3th> yeah, i heared about it
11:05:33 <sar3th> i'm still thinking
11:05:47 <sar3th> if i'm bored today, i might try though
11:06:04 <ChrisMorgan> I can't see any point in doing it... spend time on something else :-)
11:06:19 <sar3th> like what?
11:06:31 <ChrisMorgan> Hmm... how's MinGW Portable?
11:07:01 <sar3th> well, no issues concerning the launcher..i could look whether an update is required though
11:07:07 <sar3th> good idea :)
11:14:54 <ChrisMorgan> Wow... they conceded that the adapter and battery are both faulty :P
11:34:57 <ChrisMorgan> *sigh* They're not eager to replace my faulty parts which are out of warranty by a few months but should have lasted much longer :-(
11:41:45 <ChrisMorgan> For a 5500mAH Lithium-ion battery to be down to 10 minutes in 18 months, though... and an AC adapter to pack up in the same time...
12:01:54 *** Horusofoz (n=Administ@219-90-157-160.ip.adam.com.au) has joined #portableapps
12:02:07 <Horusofoz> Hi guys
12:02:15 <ChrisMorgan> Ho rosofoz
12:02:20 <ChrisMorgan> I'm outta here now :-)
12:02:38 <Horusofoz> Wa?
12:02:39 <sar3th> good night ChrisMorgan!
12:02:46 <sar3th> and hi Horusofoz
12:02:59 <Horusofoz> Hey ChrisMorgan and sar3th
12:03:11 <Horusofoz> Mir: Can I suggest you look at the Corrupt A Wish Thread?
12:03:18 <Horusofoz> Was a little bored
12:03:33 <ChrisMorgan> Looks like I'm not gonna get a replacement battery and AC adapter for free... I decided to try it just on the off chance they'd give it to me... and they haven't lived up to expectations at all! 18 months until it's practically dead, and the AC adapter dead...
12:04:10 <Horusofoz> How much will it cost you to replace?
12:05:04 <ChrisMorgan> Waal... the adapter, $60-odd for the official one or $25 or so for ones from Hong Kong, and the battery, around $150 for the same type.
12:05:43 <Horusofoz> damnnnnn
12:06:02 <ChrisMorgan> Dad showed me an article a few days ago by some guy impressed with LG service: on a whim he contacted their tech support for a TV which had quit 2 months earlier, 5 years out of warranty; they sent a guy round, he failed to fix it with $1000 of components and got fed up, but the guy called support again for no real reason, and they gave him a choice of three replacement TVs... so he got a 42" LCD!
12:06:04 <Horusofoz> I guess you got a bit of time to save up but :p
12:06:15 <ChrisMorgan> Horusofoz: langwij...
12:06:38 <ChrisMorgan> Not really... because I was able to get it cheaper than I expected I've still got enough to cover it...
12:06:56 <Horusofoz> ChrisMorgan: No offence meant.
12:07:07 <ChrisMorgan> I don't expect it to be meant...
12:07:48 <ChrisMorgan> At the moment I'm keeping it all plugged in... if I unplug it, I'm afraid the adapter will never work again.
12:08:17 <ChrisMorgan> Last time it wouldn't work for a day and a half... then the next morning I tried once more, and it worked. I haven't unplugged it since.
12:08:29 <Horusofoz> That's pretty serious.
12:08:36 <ChrisMorgan> Tis.
12:08:52 <ChrisMorgan> So I went to Uni maths today without my laptop :O
12:09:09 <ChrisMorgan> Well, I survived :P
12:09:28 <sar3th> my lappy is pretty broken :(
12:10:00 <ChrisMorgan> This one is actually only 18 months old, I got it wrong earlier.
12:10:07 <ChrisMorgan> So it was about 16 months old when I got it.
12:10:27 <ChrisMorgan> Which makes the battery carking it after that length absolutely woeful... :-(
12:10:37 <Horusofoz> Was that from eBay?
12:10:42 <ChrisMorgan> Yes
12:11:04 <Horusofoz> Thought of dropping a line on the sellers rep?
12:11:13 <ChrisMorgan> Nah, not his fault.
12:12:04 <ChrisMorgan> Anyway, I got it for about 60% of what I would have expected it to go for... if he'd filled in all the fields, and featured it... :D
12:12:08 <ChrisMorgan> I'm off now. Time how long it takes till I time out (and then subtract hibernation time). Pressing the hibernate button *now*...
12:12:34 <Horusofoz> Ciao
12:13:07 <sar3th> bye ChrisMorgan
12:18:00 <Horusofoz> Right night guys :)
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13:37:13 <pa_3369> how can i change the location to install an application it is chosing the location by it's self
13:38:08 <MaienM> pa_3369: what are you installing?
13:38:18 <pa_3369> pidgin
13:38:48 <pa_3369> it is doing the same thing for every application
13:39:41 <MaienM> you can change the install location by clicking the "Browse..." button when you get to the screen where you choose the install location
13:40:06 <pa_3369> thre isn't a browse button
13:40:44 <MaienM> there should be one, there is for me
13:40:51 <MaienM> hmmm
13:41:08 <pa_3369> there is only save file and cancel
13:41:36 <MaienM> to me it sounds like you're downloading the installer
13:41:45 <MaienM> a file ending in .paf.exe
13:41:54 <pa_3369> so what chould i do?
13:42:13 <pa_3369> yes it is ending in .paf.exe
13:42:26 <MaienM> well depending on which browser you use you should be able to select where you want to save the file
13:42:42 <MaienM> once you've downloaded you run it and install the application itself with it
13:42:53 <MaienM> after that you're done with the .paf.exe file and you can delete it
13:43:18 <pa_3369> ok thank you
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19:09:10 <GizmoBot> Roamer is addicted to cracked.com
19:09:10 <GizmoBot> Roamer is addicted to cracked.com
19:09:41 <Roamer> GizmoBot, calm down with the entry script. lol
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23:26:21 <qwertymodo> hello all :)
23:26:42 <Bensawsome> ohai :3
23:27:50 <qwertymodo> anyone know how to have a program change its own working directory in C++?
23:28:43 <sar3th> hey qwertymodo
23:29:14 <sar3th> i don't know about you question, are you using something like qt or wxwidgets?
23:29:29 <Chazz> qwertymodo, you might wanna try #c++
23:29:35 <Chazz> erm
23:29:39 <Chazz> ##c++
23:35:03 <qwertymodo> k thanks... figured somebody here could at least point me in the right direction ;)
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