IRC Log from 2009-12-13

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00:37:35 <TimClark> Flash drive question, if you "eject/safely remove" a flash drive is there a way to get windows to detect it again, other than pulling it from the port and reinseting it ?
00:38:35 <MaienM> none that I know of
00:39:08 <TimClark> do you think scan for new hardware would do it ?
00:39:30 <MaienM> I doubt it, altho it might
00:39:42 <MaienM> try io out :P
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03:11:10 <chrisroby> so.....
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03:35:07 <Bensawsome> ohai chrisroby :D
03:35:59 <chrisroby> hai bensawsome :)
03:36:18 <chrisroby> that didnt take half an hour or anything :P
03:37:57 <Bensawsome> lol
03:38:03 <Bensawsome> join #silerspot
03:39:30 <chrisroby> oh
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04:38:52 <GizmoBot> ChrisMorgan is a PortableApps.com developer and moderator
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05:37:41 <JohnTHaller> ho - la
05:38:44 <Bensawsome> hoooooola JohnTHaller ^_^
05:39:15 <JohnTHaller> How goes it?
05:40:01 <Bensawsome> p[retty good
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05:40:06 <Bensawsome> exams next week
05:40:10 <Bensawsome> then 3 weeks off :D
05:40:13 <Bensawsome> how about you?
05:40:14 <taneth111> fun.
05:40:26 <Bensawsome> lol
05:40:28 <Bensawsome> ya
05:40:32 <JohnTHaller> working on a presentation for a prsopective hardware partner. just got back from a holiday party.
05:40:39 <Bensawsome> sweeeeeeeet
05:40:45 <Bensawsome> more hardware deals :3
05:40:46 <taneth111> nice
05:40:48 <Bensawsome> oh and hanukkah is now :D
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06:12:13 <taneth111> hai rmccue
06:12:20 * rmccue waves
06:13:19 <JohnTHaller> howdy rmccue
06:13:25 <rmccue> Hey JohnTHaller
06:23:17 <taneth111> .seen simeon
06:23:17 <GizmoBot> Sorry, I haven't seen simeon around.
06:41:32 <ChrisMorgan|Away> JohnTHaller: just asking about the Inkscape thing in #inkscape
06:41:36 *** ChrisMorgan|Away is now known as ChrisMorgan
06:42:48 <ChrisMorgan> It was worth while finding it... I'm thinking I may actually do some /real/ C++ and GTK coding for Inkscape with the registry stuff to make it able to register .svg and .svgz inside Inkscape (currently only the installer can do that)
06:54:54 <ChrisMorgan> Also thanks for handling the PAU thingy JohnTHaller, I didn't want to make it look as though I had too much authority or whatnot though I was sure the name would also be a registered trademark and a trademark for the Updater addendum
06:58:17 <JohnTHaller> Sure thing, ChrisMorgan. And thanks for staying on top of the Inkscape thing. I think it warrants an out-of-cycle release to bring it into compliance with PAF. Some people were genuinely freaking out about it (end of the world, decline of PA.c standards and all). It;'s a bug. Not a security one. But it should be addressed in the semi-near future.
06:58:46 <ChrisMorgan> Yep, JonCruz reckons a new release is fine.
06:59:19 <JohnTHaller> Cool. Are they going to post the PAF version on their download page? Preferably with a small PA.c installer icon next to it... we can give em the appropriate size.
06:59:33 <ChrisMorgan> It's linked to on the download page
06:59:41 <ChrisMorgan> I added it after we released it here
07:00:10 <JohnTHaller> Oh ok/
07:00:11 <ChrisMorgan> The whole download page needs a redesign... a PA.c installer icon wouldn't fit in at the moment, but I could make it fit in
07:00:24 <ChrisMorgan> Do I just use the 16x16 version?
07:01:02 <ChrisMorgan> I reckon I'll just use 0.47, apply my patch (I'll generate a GNU patch file) and then we can continue to use the 0.47 source and say "this extra patch applied" about Other\Source\AppSource-0.47.0.1.patch so they can use it to fit in with the GPL terms
07:01:03 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, it would be nice if they had icons for all of em instead of bullets. And then the portable one underneath the Windows one. What's the point of the 7zip one?
07:01:32 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, that works GPL-wise.
07:02:20 <ChrisMorgan> Some people don't like installers... and they asked for it so I generated it as well as the installer.
07:02:31 <ChrisMorgan> There's also the debug package which isn't linked to on there, I'll add it.
07:02:33 <Bensawsome> so is this the first time we are gonna modify the actuall app to make it portable?
07:02:37 <JohnTHaller> I really hope you can get em using that site redesign. It's a great app. But I think it's hamstrung a bit by the desdign and being pre-1.0.
07:02:55 <JohnTHaller> So is the 7zip also a portable one with our launcher?
07:03:07 <ChrisMorgan> No, it's just Inkscape proper without an installer
07:03:14 <ChrisMorgan> I'll clarify that.
07:03:25 <JohnTHaller> Oh ok, good. Would get messier supportwise
07:03:29 <ChrisMorgan> Bensawsome: Inkscape was already modified before 0.47 to make it more portable-friendly
07:03:36 <Bensawsome> oh ok
07:03:38 <Bensawsome> lol
07:03:43 <Bensawsome> never knwq
07:03:56 <JohnTHaller> Windows
07:03:56 <JohnTHaller> - Local Installer, Binary-Only 7Zip
07:03:56 <JohnTHaller> - PortableApps.com Format
07:03:58 <Bensawsome> undoerunately i been driting away from pa :(
07:03:58 <JohnTHaller> would be ideal
07:04:07 <Bensawsome> i got my laptop so... :(
07:04:46 <ChrisMorgan> I submitted a patch which was accepted, since then I've done a few more patches and lots of work on their installer so now I'm on the development team with commit rights and all, and so I can also commit to the SVN website repo (and then log in to their server via SSH to svn up)
07:05:10 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: Yeah, I'll do it something like that
07:05:13 <JohnTHaller> Alright, I must be off. Got the proposal out for tomorrow to the big5 usb manufacturer who is now in the running again.
07:05:39 <ChrisMorgan> We'll be away in Gosaba Monday and Tuesday also so I can't fix it all up till Wednesday
07:05:56 <ChrisMorgan> 0.47.1 may come out if a major bug is found, but unless it is, 0.48 will be the next release
07:06:18 <JohnTHaller> 16x16 of the PA.c Install icon is fine. I think a quick retype of parts of that page would be nice. Like make the "Source Tarball (.gz)" into a full link. Makes it easier for people to see.
07:06:31 <ChrisMorgan> Yeah
07:06:42 <ChrisMorgan> The whole website is mostly out of date...
07:07:01 <ChrisMorgan> And for a vector graphics package, it's ugly. Especially the download page.
07:07:09 <JohnTHaller> Windows Installer (EXE), Windows Binaries (7z), Portable Edition (PAF) would be good link names, too
07:07:23 <ChrisMorgan> Maybe I should just change it to something muuuch better and completely different and see if anyone notices ;-)
07:07:38 <JohnTHaller> Hehe. You def could.
07:07:46 <ChrisMorgan> I'll probably also add my site to the devel Win32 builds thing
07:07:55 <JohnTHaller> Or mock it up ojn another site first and let folks vote.decide on it.
07:08:05 <ChrisMorgan> QT_NO_PLUGIN_CHECK! That's it!
07:08:31 <JohnTHaller> Task coach has a decent page as a start, just ditch a lot of the info and make the icons much smaller: http://www.taskcoach.org/download_for_windows.html
07:08:48 <JohnTHaller> alright... must sleep now. tons of work tomorrow. gnight all
07:08:55 <ChrisMorgan> Jon and Ben would also like BPBible to be the main site for BPBible Portable
07:09:04 <ChrisMorgan> So I propose that we do the same job on BPBible as Inkscape and Task Coach.
07:09:24 <JohnTHaller> Fine by us as long as they're doin the work on it :-)
07:09:25 <ChrisMorgan> Jon's already the one generating BPBible Portable since I added it to the automatic build process
07:09:32 <JohnTHaller> Good good.
07:09:32 <ChrisMorgan> We are :-)
07:09:57 <JohnTHaller> We should start working on an alternate splash screen template for external folks. Maybe 'powered by portableapps.com' and then their URL on it or something.
07:10:07 <ChrisMorgan> I dunno
07:10:23 <JohnTHaller> Too confusing? Likely to be abused?
07:10:32 <ChrisMorgan> "PortableApps.com & Inkscape.org" worked OK for it... but "PortableApps.com & BPBible.com"? We're /never/ BPBible.com, just BPBible
07:10:42 <ChrisMorgan> Make it available upon request I reckon
07:10:57 <ChrisMorgan> It'd be good if it didn't require commercial fonts
07:11:32 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, but those are the ones we use and solidified on. And there wasn't a good free equiv.
07:12:32 <ChrisMorgan> You could do it as a simple PHP script or something... have all the background as a bitmap and the PortableApps.com bit, and then send a web request to a PHP script which would generate the text in that font to insert it, no need for the user to buy it, just have it on the server.
07:12:32 <JohnTHaller> Any idea why Inkscape is at 0.47 instead of 1.x? They waiting on something?
07:13:08 <ChrisMorgan> http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Roadmap
07:13:31 <ChrisMorgan> Inkscape 1.0 - full SVG 1.1 support
07:13:35 <ChrisMorgan> Ha ha.
07:13:40 <JohnTHaller> So, like 2 years away? :-(
07:13:45 <ChrisMorgan> Oh, come on.
07:13:53 <ChrisMorgan> Multiply it by ten and you'd be closer.
07:13:55 <JohnTHaller> I know, I know.
07:14:05 <ChrisMorgan> I reckon at the current rate it will never get done.
07:14:48 <JohnTHaller> Seriously, I wish they'd realize that having it as less than 1.0 turns people off. Especially considering what a solid app it is. Update the roadmap and have it be 1.0 soon. then 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, etc. And have 2.0 be SVG 1.1 support. That plus a redesign would get them a LOT more users.
07:14:49 <ChrisMorgan> The roadmap is also horrendously out of date and inaccurate. 0.48 is just solidifying 0.47 and adding GSOC stuff and so on
07:15:14 <ChrisMorgan> Some discussion went on about it a month or so ago in the mailing list.
07:15:36 <ChrisMorgan> Some proposals involving putting the year number in as well as .47 or not...
07:15:42 <ChrisMorgan> "Inkscape 2009.47"
07:15:52 <ChrisMorgan> "Inkscape 2009.2" for the second release in 2009
07:15:56 <ChrisMorgan> "Inkscape 2009b"
07:15:59 <JohnTHaller> I'd be happy to talk to any of them directoy about it.
07:16:09 <ChrisMorgan> "Inkscape 9.47"
07:16:21 <ChrisMorgan> When all was proposed and done, I decided I liked 0.47 best.
07:16:23 <JohnTHaller> Nah, 2009.X is a bad idea, too. If they go 6 months between a release, it looks out of date.
07:16:40 <ChrisMorgan> "Inkscape 9.11" (like Ubuntu)
07:16:45 <JohnTHaller> Users are familiar with 1.0, 2.1, etc. Even Microsoft is getting that and switching back to good old version numbers.
07:17:20 <ChrisMorgan> It was even suggested to name releases after developers... "Inkscape Jon Cruz", "Inkscape Josh Andler"... :/
07:17:32 <ChrisMorgan> 6 months is just in theory. In practice, 0.47 came more than two years after 0.46.
07:17:35 <JohnTHaller> *ugh*. No Apple-ish stunts.
07:17:45 <JohnTHaller> Simple version numbers would just be genuinely great.,
07:18:24 <ChrisMorgan> "Inkscape Squiggle", "Inkscape New Version", "Inkscape Apple"... named releases were suggested as well.
07:18:59 <ChrisMorgan> Feel free to drop into #inkscape at any time and talk to them and tell them why they should call the next release Inkscape 4.8 or something
07:19:09 <JohnTHaller> Solidify, fix any crashers, get translations updated and call it 1.0 and launch it with the redeisnged site. Then go 1.1, 1.2 on the roadmap, leading to 2.0 with SVG 1.1.
07:19:35 <ChrisMorgan> Surely we want it to get to 2.0 though?
07:20:05 <ChrisMorgan> Inkscape would be in a perpetual pre-2.0 state.
07:20:21 <JohnTHaller> Huh. That's actually not that bad an idea either. switching from 0.48 to 4.8. I still think a 1.0 would be a nice first milestone if they solidify it all and get translations done and do it with the redesign. We could even generate some hype and do a press release with them.
07:20:50 <JohnTHaller> Inkscape is really one of those great apps that more people need to know about.
07:21:55 <ChrisMorgan> Just dropped a link to this chunk of the logs in #inkscape... see what they think of your opinions.
07:22:39 <JohnTHaller> We helped put Sumatra PDF on the map (with 3 million downloads from us). Same with Task Coach (62% of their downloads are of the PAF version).
07:22:49 <ChrisMorgan> And don't forget BPBible.
07:23:05 <ChrisMorgan> BPBible Portable still gets far more downloads than BPBible proper
07:23:27 <JohnTHaller> I know Inkscape is really popular already. But it should be so much bigger. I mean the features and functionality it has are great... and so many graphics professionals I know are just surprised it even exists when I show it to them.
07:23:55 <ChrisMorgan> Yeah, it's great software just not known enough.
07:23:58 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, what % of Bpbible downloads are of the PAF?
07:24:12 <ChrisMorgan> The website is not splashy enough for graphics software I reckon, that's probably also a big turnoff
07:24:17 <ChrisMorgan> BPBible 0.4.5 has had 3141 and 466 downloads of its installer and source
07:24:45 <ChrisMorgan> As for the portable version... *sigh* gotta go into SF's poor stats system for that
07:25:35 <JohnTHaller> I'm using a redirector for external links like Inkscape and Task Coach so we can track downloads from us vs direct ones as well.
07:25:47 <ChrisMorgan> Any public spot for those?
07:25:59 <ChrisMorgan> I like the way you did bandwidth stealing-stopping
07:26:10 <JohnTHaller> Not yet. It's by URL not app, so there are duplicates and messiness. I need to rework the extension so it's something usable.
07:26:19 <ChrisMorgan> Oh, OK
07:26:32 <ChrisMorgan> Just saw that issue one person had with their download manager and guessed it was a hotlink protector
07:26:41 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, just wanted to ensure that directory sites weren't mooching traffic... or passing it off as their own.
07:26:45 <ChrisMorgan> PHP? Inside Drupal?
07:26:52 * ChrisMorgan hates download sites
07:26:58 <JohnTHaller> specialized htaccess
07:27:11 <JohnTHaller> Takes you to this page: http://portableapps.com/apps/blocked
07:27:16 <ChrisMorgan> I meant the actual redirect script
07:27:33 <ChrisMorgan> Nice :-)
07:27:34 <JohnTHaller> it's this: http://drupal.org/project/bouncer
07:27:40 <ChrisMorgan> Ah
07:28:22 <JohnTHaller> I'd like to use a simple PHP one that adds stuff to the DB for tracking and can do graphs. Just haven't had time to find one. Using bouncer mainly to ensure we have the stats for now.
07:28:40 <ChrisMorgan> It does put it in the DB
07:28:50 <ChrisMorgan> Just a matter of working out how to get it out nicely
07:29:36 <JohnTHaller> Well, it puts the URL, IP, etc in. And has rudimentary reports for getting things out. Ideally, we put the App, Version and IP in and then can get better reports out.
07:30:00 <JohnTHaller> Alright... bed... must go... working tomorrow... gnight all!
07:30:04 <JohnTHaller> Thanks, ChrisMorgan
07:31:24 <ChrisMorgan> 8,627 for BPBible Portable 0.4.5.1
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07:32:05 <ChrisMorgan> 19,983 for BPBible Portable 0.4.5
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07:33:56 <ChrisMorgan> Total of 28,610 for the Portable version (0.4.5 and 0.4.5.1) and 3,607 for the local version of 0.4.5 (including source); that sounds like approximately 88.8% of downloads are of the portable version.
07:34:37 <ChrisMorgan> Or 90.1% if you don't include the BPBible 0.4.5 source code
07:35:45 <ChrisMorgan> No... that Qt thing is wrong :-(
07:37:00 <ChrisMorgan> I don't think that the plugin cache can be disabled... and thus KVIrc Portable /must/ be leaving them behind unless Gizmokid2005|AFK dealt with them in his launcher which he didn't. And QtWeb /must/ be leaving them behind and /can't/ be "stealth" as reported on portablefreeware.com.
07:37:26 <ChrisMorgan> Looks like I'll need to test it some time on a clean virtual machine... which means I must read 32 pages of BizSpark license agreement so I can get Windows licenses for free
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08:13:55 <taneth111> ChrisMorgan: bizspark?
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08:26:37 <ChrisMorgan> taneth111: BizSpark.
08:26:52 <taneth111> define?
08:27:14 <ChrisMorgan> .g BizSpark
08:27:15 <GizmoBot> ChrisMorgan: http://www.microsoft.com/BizSpark/
08:32:47 <taneth111> so free stuff for starting companies?
08:32:56 <ChrisMorgan> Yeah
08:33:17 <ChrisMorgan> Dad's got it with his WaterSums software and I work on that too so I'm eligible through that
08:33:50 <ChrisMorgan> I'm also eligible through my own thing I'm starting...
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13:21:48 <GizmoBot> ChrisMorgan is a PortableApps.com developer and moderator
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14:26:32 <picada> Hi... in need of help here. Can anyone help me?
14:27:00 <Oni-Neoxes> Hello picada, What would be the problem?
14:29:06 <picada> it's the followin' : i have portableapps suite instaled on a Iomega 500 Gb Disk and several portable apps. I noticed there is a more recent version of the suite, surely with a lot more options. The problem is that i don't know how to update my suite without having to reinstall all the apps i have.
14:30:32 <MaienM|Sleep> you can simply install the new suite + apps over the old one
14:31:01 <MaienM|Sleep> your settings will be preserved and the apps will be updated that way
14:31:01 <picada> Will it keep stability? No corrupt files or something?
14:31:20 <MaienM|Sleep> nope, thats the way you're supposed to upgrade so it'll work fine
14:31:33 <MaienM|Sleep> its designed to work that way
14:32:05 <picada> Thank you. I apreciate your help.
14:32:32 <MaienM|Sleep> you're welcome
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15:42:42 <vicc_portugal> hi
15:42:51 <ChrisMorgan> ditto
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16:57:09 <Mir> [08:58] [CTCP] Received CTCP-PING reply from Mir: 177 second.
16:57:14 <Mir> OH SNAP
16:57:22 <Mir> return of teh uber lag
17:03:53 <ChrisMorgan> Impressive.
17:04:13 <ChrisMorgan> I sent that at 22:33:49 where I am, btw ;-)
17:08:09 <dbdii407> Facebook wants me to add Tim Clark as a friend
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17:14:54 <warfusion> hello
17:15:06 <ChrisMorgan> Hello, warfusion, can we help you with anythign?
17:15:28 <ChrisMorgan> I've got to go to bed now so hopefully someone else will chip in and help you if you have anything to ask about
17:15:58 *** ChrisMorgan is now known as ChrisMorgan|Away
17:16:08 <warfusion> o ok then
17:16:16 <ChrisMorgan|Away> Do ask your question though
17:16:22 <ChrisMorgan|Away> That way you're more likely to get a response
17:16:40 * ChrisMorgan|Away is no longer here now
17:18:03 <warfusion> i want to do my first portable app virtualbox but im confused by if i rly should do a clean install or can i use a current os already used
17:18:32 <Gizmokid2005> warfusion: to get a baseline of an app you want to portablize, it's best to use a clean install, usually easier in a VM
17:18:43 <Gizmokid2005> but Virtualbox is unable to be made portable at this time, many have attempted it
17:18:48 <Gizmokid2005> but it can't be done because of the drivers.
17:19:00 <warfusion> also if its better to develop in a vm so that its more of a controlled encironment?
17:19:18 <Gizmokid2005> warfusion: yes. Definitely
17:21:10 <warfusion> wat about doing a little rewrite of the virtualbox code
17:21:17 <Gizmokid2005> and with VBox, you can create snapshots so you can easily undo any changes you made
17:21:20 <Gizmokid2005> and always have a "clean" environment to test in.
17:21:39 <Gizmokid2005> warfusion: it won't be possible, becuase you'll need those drivers for VBox to work, and they require admin priveleges to install.
17:22:35 <warfusion> i c
17:24:52 <warfusion> i was wonder portableapps only make exisiting programs portable or can i use wat i develop too?
17:25:39
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17:26:20 <warfusion> hmmm ok ill be back later probably with more questions :p
17:26:23 <Gizmokid2005> warfusion: if you want to write your own app and make it portable
17:26:24 <Gizmokid2005> you can
17:26:33 <Gizmokid2005> but our "business" is to make existing apps portable.
17:26:36 <warfusion> oooooo
17:26:55 <warfusion> i got it
17:26:55 <Gizmokid2005> we don't go out and write apps...we just portablize what is already there. There's nothing wrong with doing it yourself though.
17:26:58 <Gizmokid2005> Toucan is done that way.
17:27:18 <Gizmokid2005> SteveLamerton is developing that app himself, and it's mainly for the users at PortableApps.com
17:28:28 <warfusion> im going to look im the forums a little and learn more be bak later
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17:37:17 <vicc_portugal> hi
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17:52:03 <andreasma> hi
17:56:47 <vicc_portugal> hi
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18:11:20 <Gizmokid2005> Hey MaienM, have you seen the new rules link in the topic?
18:11:46 <Gizmokid2005> MaienM: http://gizmokid2005.com/paircrules just in case
18:11:51 <MaienM> no, do you have a link for me?
18:11:54 <MaienM> ah, lemme see
18:12:02 <Gizmokid2005> since you are here about as much as I am, that way we're all on the same page :)
18:14:01 <MaienM> looks good to me Gizmokid2005 :)
18:14:18 <Gizmokid2005> let's hope people read and abide by them :)
18:15:12 <MaienM> yeah
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18:58:22 <GizmoBot> MaienM is MaienM. He is the developer of The Mana World Portable, and he has a website at http://mmfail.co.cc/
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19:01:57 <vicc_portugal> hi ptmb
19:02:11 <ptmb> hello vicc_portugal
19:03:08 <vicc_portugal> you need to see this (i'm "the cool"): http://forum.pplware.com/showthread.php?tid=3539&page=1
19:04:47 <ptmb> checking...
19:05:28 <vicc_portugal> ok
19:05:47 <vicc_portugal> do u understand portuguese? xD
19:06:06 <ptmb> yes, I do xD
19:08:19 <ptmb> nice vicc_portugal
19:09:41 <vicc_portugal> thanks
19:10:15 <vicc_portugal> bye
19:10:50 <vicc_portugal> ptmb: check out the pplware forums, there's other tpoics where we talk about portable
19:10:58 <ptmb> ok
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19:16:44 <MaienM> guys, first of all this channel is english so other language stuff doesn't belong here. Second of all, liberkey does not belong in here either.
19:16:48 <MaienM> darn, vicc is gone already -_-
19:17:40 <ptmb> MaienM, I just tought that if I didn't give ihm much attention he wouldn't post much more stuff, and it worked :D
19:21:53 <ptmb> seriously tough, if he kept talking I would tell him to go to -ot
19:22:30 <MaienM> yeah, I get your point
19:22:41 <MaienM> my comment was mainly directed at vicc ;)
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23:19:17 <MaienM> hello TimClark
23:19:50 <TimClark> hello MaienM , welcome back , good break for you
23:20:21 <MaienM> yeah, it was
23:20:26 <MaienM> and how are you today TimClark?
23:20:30 <TimClark> Gizmokid2005: should be around soon, and on that note I'm gone
23:20:57 <MaienM> alright, bye TimClark
23:21:29 <TimClark> take care
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