IRC Log from 2009-12-18
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04:30:49 <pratchett.freenode.net> Topic for #portableapps is: Welcome to the PortableApps.com support channel. Visit us at http://portableapps.com/ | If you need assistance, just say "help!", or ask your question, and WAIT rather than just leaving. | This channel is logged: http://nascent-project.org/irc/logs | The #PortableApps IRC rules are here: http://gizmokid2005.com/paircrules Read and abide by them.
04:30:49 <pratchett.freenode.net> Users on #portableapps: palogbot Res2216firestar Zarggg upnPAD BjornH SrgSiler|Sleep +ZachT|ZNC tarbo NiveusLuna Bensawsome +GizmoBot Mir MaienM|Sleep sar3th|away dbdii407 Twinkletoes|W Suiseiseki @Gizmokid2005|AFK
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04:30:52 <GizmoBot> palogbot is the logging bot for #portableapps . Logs are found at http://nascent-project.org/irc/logs . If he dies: http://nascent-project.org/portableapps/irc/restart
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04:52:48 <kornbluth.freenode.net> Topic for #portableapps is: Welcome to the PortableApps.com support channel. Visit us at http://portableapps.com/ | If you need assistance, just say "help!", or ask your question, and WAIT rather than just leaving. | This channel is logged: http://nascent-project.org/irc/logs | The #PortableApps IRC rules are here: http://gizmokid2005.com/paircrules Read and abide by them.
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04:52:48 <GizmoBot> palogbot is the logging bot for #portableapps . Logs are found at http://nascent-project.org/irc/logs . If he dies: http://nascent-project.org/portableapps/irc/restart
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09:12:31 <GizmoBot> ChrisMorgan is a PortableApps.com developer and moderator
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10:53:41 <GizmoBot> ChrisMorgan is a PortableApps.com developer and moderator
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12:43:12 <andreasma> hi
13:37:07 *** pa_5559 (i=7aa9005f@gateway/web/freenode/x-fwvcsefnfshjhhhc) has joined #portableapps
13:38:21 <pa_5559> hi
13:38:35 <ChrisMorgan> Hi, pa_5559! Can we help you with anything?
13:39:05 <pa_5559> hi Chris..can portable apps be used for a custom developed application
13:39:30 <ChrisMorgan> Sure, but if you're wanting to make it work portably, you'll need to do some work yourself.
13:40:06 <pa_5559> anything in specific that needs to be taken care while developing the application .
13:40:16 <ChrisMorgan> If you just want to get something to show in the PortableApps.com Platform, see http://portableapps.com/support/portable_apps_suite#addingotherapps
13:40:35 <ChrisMorgan> .NET is troublesome; most machines don't have it installed.
13:40:45 <pa_5559> ok..
13:40:55 <ChrisMorgan> Other than that, just about anything can be made portable with a bit of work.
13:41:18 <ChrisMorgan> Are you the developer of an application or are you just trying to use someone else's application?
13:41:25 <pa_5559> i am a developer
13:41:34 <ChrisMorgan> OK. What's the program?
13:41:49 <pa_5559> yet to start actual development on this one..
13:41:57 <ChrisMorgan> OK.
13:42:20 <ChrisMorgan> What will it do when it does?
13:42:24 <pa_5559> need a program that will run from a portable drive..
13:42:42 <pa_5559> i am awaiting details of the specs..
13:43:13 <pa_5559> but the req. is not to install the program on the pc..
13:43:32 <ChrisMorgan> What is the program you're about to write meant to do though?
13:43:38 <ChrisMorgan> Is it for a client?
13:44:05 <pa_5559> yea it is for a client...i still do not have complete specs..
13:44:10 <ChrisMorgan> OK
13:44:21 <ChrisMorgan> My preferred technique for portability is to put data in %APPDATA% normally and support an environment variable override which can then be set by the launcher to make settings go somewhere else.
13:44:46 <pa_5559> ok
13:45:01 <ChrisMorgan> When I did Inkscape Portable I submitted a patch to make it read the environment variable INKSCAPE_PORTABLE_PROFILE_DIR first. That's how the final Inkscape Portable does it.
13:45:28 <pa_5559> ok
13:46:04 <ChrisMorgan> Toucan is a custom-developed application, developed specially for PortableApps.com; I believe it doesn't need a launcher because of how it works.
13:46:11 <ChrisMorgan> For it there is no non-portable build.
13:46:32 <ChrisMorgan> If your application is only needed for working from USB disks, it would probably be easier to do it that way.
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13:46:45 <ChrisMorgan> What language were you intending to write it in?
13:47:20 <pa_5559> .net or java
13:47:56 <ChrisMorgan> Avoid .NET then for portability. With Java, you will need a launcher to invoke Java Portable which will need to be installed on the device.
13:49:13 <pa_5559> ok...thanks Chris..i just hit this site..let me go thru the link that has the doc..
13:49:27 <pa_5559> i feel this should help me in more than one application..
13:49:31 <ChrisMorgan> Yep, http://portableapps.com/development is the spot :-)
13:49:46 <ChrisMorgan> It's got some helpful guidelines etc.
13:49:54 <pa_5559> ok..Thanks a lot!
13:49:58 <ChrisMorgan> I'd suggest that you write the application though before bothering with portability.
13:50:22 <pa_5559> well i can try it with one of already existing application..
13:50:29 <pa_5559> before the new project starts..
13:50:43 <ChrisMorgan> By the time you are finished, we should have our universal launcher finished and then the final stage of getting it into the PortableApps.com Format will be a lot easier - INI work rather than more coding
13:51:04 <ChrisMorgan> Feel free to come back with any questions you have :-)
13:51:11 <pa_5559> or develop a small one for testing purposes..
13:51:37 <pa_5559> yea sure..nice work here..thank again
13:51:52 <ChrisMorgan> At http://chrismorgan.info/#portableapps-applications I have a few Java ones listed
13:52:08 <pa_5559> ok cool
13:52:09 <ChrisMorgan> They may be useful in seeing how Java can be handled
13:52:16 <pa_5559> k
13:52:29 <ChrisMorgan> With Java also it's fine to just use user.home for settings
13:53:14 <ChrisMorgan> In calling javaw.exe -Duser.home="..." can be stuck onto its command line and the settings will be redirected to the specified location.
13:53:14 <pa_5559> can i also use this for a web based application? say ..php mysql
13:53:27 <ChrisMorgan> Hmm...
13:53:36 <ChrisMorgan> That's a bit trickier to say.
13:53:56 <ChrisMorgan> It's been attempted a couple of times
13:54:04 <pa_5559> or maybe an application that requires a payment gateway connection..
13:54:13 <ChrisMorgan> I'd tend to just say use a XAMPP server and be done with it that way.
13:54:37 <ChrisMorgan> Payment gateways can be handled in Java or any decent language
13:54:49 <pa_5559> ok..
13:54:58 <ChrisMorgan> e.g. GnuCash is a full-fledged accounting piece of software, we've got a portable version of it.
13:55:15 <pa_5559> yea i have that on my box..its a nice one..
13:55:26 <ChrisMorgan> I don't use it myself, but it's good :-)
13:55:35 <pa_5559> :)
13:55:55 <pa_5559> actually i have a situation in one of of my online apps..
13:56:14 <ChrisMorgan> Learn Python and use Django! ;-)
13:56:34 <pa_5559> it has considerable forms and the user finds its irritating to enter all the data being online..
13:56:45 <ChrisMorgan> OK
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13:57:07 <pa_5559> i was thking of an app. that will allow him to enter data offline...and then sync it on the server
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13:58:08 <ChrisMorgan> Sounds sensible.
13:59:25 <pa_5559> so i was thking of developing an appl that can run from a portable..
13:59:45 <pa_5559> the online version is .net
14:00:34 <ChrisMorgan> It's still possible to do other than in .NET, but not quite as easy
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14:05:53 <pa_5559> hey Chris..thanks for your time..will come back later after i have read the entire thing..
14:05:58 <pa_5559> have a great day
14:06:01 <pa_5559> bye
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15:19:14 <ChrisMorgan> Hello JohnTHaller, how're things going?
15:20:06 <JohnTHaller> hi ChrisMorgan. not bad. lot of late coding nights lately
15:20:21 <JohnTHaller> waiting on a SF issue atm
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17:20:09 <ChrisMorgan> Goodnight now... hope you get lots of work done, John :-) I'm hoping to see 2.0 come out soon... and then the launcher and everything in Mercurial :-) Oh, and Steve would like shell access so he can move the Toucan repository, I think he's worked out exactly what he needs to do with it to preserve everything (it's fairly straightforward, just a matter of making sure you get it right).
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18:44:30 <Alcasar> There hasn't been any news for 10 days. Is everyone on vacation for the holydays. ;-)
18:55:56 <JohnTHaller> Actually, we haven't been able to post to SourceForge in 33 hours. 25 files are currently stuck.
19:00:56 <Alcasar> ok, is the 2.0 platform finished? what about firefox portable 3.5.6?
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19:10:11 <SteveLamerton> Hello all
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19:21:34 <Alcasar> sorry, firefox update
19:26:18 <JohnTHaller> firefox 3.5.6 and 3.6b5 are both stuck.
19:27:28 <Alcasar> well, i just updated to 3.5.6 trough the auto update. I hope it won't give me any problems.
19:29:27 <Alcasar> BTW, Utorrent portable doesn't work. Maybe it's because i'm behind a proxy, but it won't even open and keeps saying there's an error or something.
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20:22:23 <Alcasar> µTorrent Portable 1.8.5 Build 17414 does not work but µTorrent 1.8.5 Build 17414 does, what's wrong with the portable version?
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20:57:57 <Bensawsome> Alcasar it would help if we knew what the error was ;)
20:57:58 <Bensawsome> lol
20:59:04 <Alcasar> ok, just a sec
21:00:31 <Alcasar> sous-système MS-DOS 16 bits
21:01:03 <Alcasar> Le processeur NTVDM a rencontré une instruction non autorisée.
21:02:27 <Alcasar> CS:0fc1 IP:019e OP:63 e8 73 20 72 Choisissez 'Fermer' pour mettre fin a l'application.
21:03:15 <Alcasar> that's the pop-up i get with 2 buttons Fermer or Ignorer, but both end-up with the application crashing
21:04:11 <Alcasar> it's just that if i ignore i have to do it 3 times and then manualy close the command prompt window.
21:11:38 <Bensawsome> Alcasar have you tried reinstalling it?
21:12:00 <Alcasar> Yes
21:12:08 <Bensawsome> shoot
21:12:11 <Bensawsome> i need to pack
21:12:15 <Bensawsome> sorry i couldnt help more
21:12:30 <Alcasar> btw, utorrent finaly worked trough TOR
21:13:01 <Alcasar> no prob, as i said i made it work but not with the portable version
21:14:16 <JohnTHaller> Alcasar: That error means the EXE is corrupted
21:14:58 <Alcasar> well then it happened when i used the Online.paf.exe to install
21:15:08 <JohnTHaller> Did you right-click on it to download?
21:15:28 <JohnTHaller> If you did, you actually downloaded a webpage (HTML) but named as an EXE, which is why it failed.
21:15:29 <Alcasar> ??? right-click?
21:15:41 <JohnTHaller> Right-clicked on the download link on PortableApps.com to download it.
21:16:04 <Alcasar> no, i got the .pas.exe file alright
21:16:07 <JohnTHaller> As in, right-click and then Save Link As (or Save Target As depending on your browser)
21:16:21 <Alcasar> oops paf not pas
21:16:41 <JohnTHaller> So when you double-click on the uTorrentPortable_1.2.3_online.paf.exe it brings up the installer?
21:16:49 <Alcasar> yes
21:16:59 <JohnTHaller> So when does the error come up?
21:17:10 <Alcasar> it's when i try to use Utorrent
21:17:19 <JohnTHaller> When you installed, was it able to download utorrent.exe as part of the installation process?
21:17:45 <Alcasar> ... i think so coz it seemed to install allright
21:17:52 <JohnTHaller> If it worked, if you look in uTorrentPortable\App\utorrent, you'll see utorrent.exe.
21:18:30 <Alcasar> it's there but it's only 3k
21:19:10 <JohnTHaller> Yeah. When you ran the installer, something blocked it's ability to download utorrent.exe and stick it in the right place, so it got a blocked webpage instead and saved that as utorrent.exe. Odd.
21:26:09 <Alcasar> the proxy i'm on blocks utorrent.com
21:26:28 <Alcasar> i got it from cnet.com instead
21:30:36 <JohnTHaller> ah ok. well you can copy the utorrent.exe you downloaded into uTorrentPortable\App\utorrent and it'll work with the portable launcher
21:31:48 <Alcasar> ok, but it's still weird that the installer didn't realise it was being blocked
21:34:48 <JohnTHaller> If it's straight up blocked, it realizes it and tells you. But it looks like your proxy sends something down the wire. uTorrent updates its EXE on their server without notice, so we can't check the MD5 checksum on it like we do with the Java online installer and others.
21:36:10 <MaienM|Sleep> maybe some sort of check to see if the downloaded filesize is sensible would be possibe? Or even better, looking at the returned mime type, if that returns something sensible.
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21:38:18 <JohnTHaller> I can do the size check and was already looking into that. We can't do a mimetype check as inetc doesn't support it.
21:39:36 <Alcasar> bye all
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21:40:02 <MaienM|Sleep> yeah, I was kinda expecting that
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22:01:33 <JohnTHaller> RackSpace is down. Again.
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22:31:30 <Gizmokid2005> JohnTHaller: I thought you had a new agreement ready to go with someone else?
22:31:55 <JohnTHaller> Looked into it, but got a good offer to stay.
22:32:09 <JohnTHaller> It's back. Turns out it was a network issue and only lasted a few minutes.
22:33:14 <Gizmokid2005> this is what, issue #5 in the last year?
22:33:18 <Gizmokid2005> or are we up to 6 now?
22:33:36 <JohnTHaller> well, 10 minute network issues we don't really count.
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22:34:32 <Gizmokid2005> I would, it's considered downtime. And i've seen a few sites almost die because of issues like that. I still have yet to argue the SLA for my old hosting provider
22:34:39 <JohnTHaller> Most sites advertise 99.9% uptime which is 43 minutes of downtime per month.
22:35:16 <Gizmokid2005> yeah
22:35:17 <JohnTHaller> Our SLA with Rackspace is for 100% network uptime.
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22:36:14 <JohnTHaller> After 30 mins of downtime, we get 5% of our hosting fee back. 60 mins is 10%
22:36:48 <Gizmokid2005> yeah
22:37:15 <Gizmokid2005> I just get irritated when they fail...redundancy isn't expensive...not for something like that.
22:39:16 <Gizmokid2005> that's why I got off that host and moved to my own VPS.
22:42:12 <JohnTHaller> The 4 issues earlier were for the power problems. And ours were extended because it hosed our database each time. Everyone else was only down like 45 minutes each time.
22:42:19 <JohnTHaller> 5 mins one of the times.
22:42:50 <JohnTHaller> This time was just an edge router causing a loop. So they just had to switch to the redundant one.
22:44:23 <Gizmokid2005> yeah, but we had an issue like that at work, our UPS' have some major issues and in the last year I think the power has died 3 or 4 times for something, and personally, that's unacceptable.
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22:44:53 <Gizmokid2005> but I hope to have a songbird beta out later tonight or tomorrow. I've got the icons, I just have to recompile and test.
22:45:11 <JohnTHaller> Oh I know. That's why I basically mapped out a plan to switch and decided if they have one more big fail, we switch, regardless of cost.
22:45:25 <JohnTHaller> But since this month on Rackspace is essentially free, I decided to try sticking with it.
22:45:33 <Gizmokid2005> ahh, makes sense.
22:45:59 <JohnTHaller> The power issues were apparently a big deal, since it cost them like 5 million $. ANd they had like 3 GE electrical engineers in to rebuild the key parts of it.
22:46:53 <Gizmokid2005> Yeah, power and redundancy there with UPS' is expensive, but for servers like that, you need it. The system is really, quite simple. Just run everything through a UPS (or set of) to use as failovers and then push those through a switching unit between line power and generator.
22:47:11 <Gizmokid2005> but when you have a UPS fail, typically they'll cascade (which is what happened at work, twice), and then you have an issue.
22:47:31 <Gizmokid2005> the company would always run the generator (automatically) ever wednesday morning, but they never did failover testing.
22:47:38 <Gizmokid2005> which is why the issue happened...
22:47:52 <Gizmokid2005> and since that was the key to redundancy, well...you can fill in the rest.
22:49:13 <JohnTHaller> yeah. racdkspace had an issue with two of the huge redundant switches failing. and then the ups connections between it and the generator failed after the electrical storm that knocked it all out.
22:55:05 <Gizmokid2005> yeah, that seems to be the big issue with places, they take power failsafes for granted and don't actually test them
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