IRC Log from 2009-12-21
00:01:20 <IEB> I believe i have it but im not sure
00:02:37 <IEB> im studying in a third world country, but when i was in the us over the summer i downloaded virtually every program on pa.c
00:08:13 <IEB> they're on a portable hard drive now
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00:27:30 <gluxon> All you need Is Eclipse Portable :D <-- That's a lie.
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03:25:59 <solanus> Any mods here? I got a question about retaining control of my app...
03:31:16 <solanus> I have a simple original app, Someone has taken it upon himself to modify it, and they are posting their version in my thread with my app name.
03:33:20 <solanus> I don't mind if someone wants to help, but I'd like to have his links removed, and instead I would contact him directly with any improvements. Any suggestions?
03:35:57 <solanus> ...Bueller?
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03:44:59 <solanus> OK, looks like nobody is here...
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04:03:47 <Gizmokid2005> solanus: leave a note, with a link.
04:10:03 <solanus> Gizmokid: Hi! http://portableapps.com/node/18109
04:12:27 <solanus> I wrote the app, and told c2b that I want to retain control. What's the standard opinion on this?
04:13:11 <Gizmokid2005> solanus: since the app is open source, there's nothing you can do about him modifying it...BUT - he should NOT be hijacking your thread
04:14:27 <Gizmokid2005> I'll make sure to pass this to a mod for you though
04:14:41 <Gizmokid2005> I can't do anything, but I'll make sure a mod(s) will see this.
04:15:38 <solanus> Thanks. I don't want to stop him helping if he wants, so I'll ask him once more, and suggest that he send me his modifications directly, and then I can post when I think it's ready to post.
04:17:07 <Gizmokid2005> that would be a good idea solanus
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04:34:32 <solanus> @Gizmokid2005: OK, I put a polite request to C2B on my post, thanks for your help.
04:34:35 <solanus> Later
04:35:28 <Gizmokid2005> not a problem
04:35:29 <Gizmokid2005> later solanus
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04:51:17 <OliverK> alrighty, night all
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05:48:52 <GizmoBot> ChrisMorgan is a PortableApps.com developer and moderator
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07:59:26 <pa_6539> firefox 3.1.4.1125 : file corruption?
07:59:46 <pa_6539> I downloaded twice, installation denied both times due to file corruption
08:00:05 <ChrisMorganPi> pa_6539: have you got any antivirus software which might be messing it up?
08:00:35 <ChrisMorganPi> Also, what happens when you run it? Is it the NSIS "File integrity check failed", "please redownload" or whatever one?
08:00:41 *** ChrisMorganPi is now known as ChrisMorgan
08:02:47 <pa_6539> yes, file integrity
08:02:54 <pa_6539> no pb with other apps
08:02:59 <ChrisMorgan> Yep, so it's getting that far.
08:03:13 <ChrisMorgan> What type of internet connection do you have?
08:03:22 <ChrisMorgan> Dial-up or broadband?
08:03:27 <pa_6539> "broadband" but very bad
08:03:34 <ChrisMorgan> What did you use to download it?
08:03:40 <pa_6539> but open office running w/o issue
08:03:44 <pa_6539> much bigger file
08:03:52 <ChrisMorgan> Sure is.
08:04:17 <ChrisMorgan> What did you use to download it?
08:04:19 <pa_6539> chrome (that's quick)
08:04:27 <ChrisMorgan> And it reported the download as finished properly?
08:04:42 <pa_6539> yes, with the icon
08:04:58 <ChrisMorgan> Could you please download http://portableapps.com/apps/utilities/winmd5sum_portable with which you can check the installer's checksum
08:05:58 <ChrisMorgan> Wait... can't find any MD5 checksum for it so don't bother
08:06:12 <ChrisMorgan> Anyway, 3.1.4.1125? We have no such version number
08:10:02 <ChrisMorgan> 3.1 was never released. It became 3.5 after Beta 2.
08:10:27 <ChrisMorgan> So what is the download filename?
08:10:28 <pa_6539> 91c1b73d3bb5f3b2b60e7a661be29a9e
08:10:40 <ChrisMorgan> Sorry, that won't help as there's nothing to compare it to
08:10:52 <pa_6539> http://portableapps.com/apps/office/foxit_reader_portable#download_details
08:11:06 <ChrisMorgan> Oh. Foxit. Not Firefox as you said first :/
08:11:06 <pa_6539> that's the number on the download button
08:11:24 <pa_6539> sorry
08:11:27 <ChrisMorgan> Well the MD5 checksum listed on that page is 777fa2a42ce52dabbaf1a54c5571c127
08:11:27 <pa_6539> firefox ok
08:11:38 <ChrisMorgan> Which doesn't match what you've got
08:12:05 <pa_6539> which means file corruption?
08:12:26 <ChrisMorgan> I'll test it myself.
08:13:00 <ChrisMorgan> Works for me, correct checksum
08:13:17 <ChrisMorgan> Try downloading with a different browser or program.
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08:14:12 <ChrisMorgan> Asleep: classy :P
08:14:23 <Asleep> lol, very. =P
08:14:27 <Asleep> Night ChrisMorgan =)
08:14:35 <ChrisMorgan> G'nite Chazz
08:17:39 <ChrisMorgan> Hmm... Foxit has "incredible small size" - 9MB ("a fraction of Acrobat Reader 20 M size") - while Sumatra PDF is merely "lightweight" at 2MB. That page's grammar is horrible.
08:18:36 <ChrisMorgan> http://portableapps.com/node/21968 - an article I'm starting on "How to Report a False Positive" with LINKS to each one's site.
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08:18:59 <pa_6539> ok, I will try with firefox. I will try sumatra first. But foxit is more than a reader and I have a 4GB drive, so 7MB for a pdf editor-but-in-name...
08:19:08 <pa_6539> thanks
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14:26:02 <The_Admiral> Hey all, how's the server doing?
14:26:20 <ChrisMorgan> The_Admiral: which server were you referring to?
14:26:49 <The_Admiral> The IRC server... it has been having problems, apparently
14:27:26 <ChrisMorgan> Freenode has had a few problems but they've never collapsed... the worst that's happened any time recently is a few servers dropping off the edges in a DDoS attack
14:28:06 <The_Admiral> ah gotcha.
14:29:02 <The_Admiral> Question... I have having serious corruption issues on this flash drive, requiring chkdsk /r. This time it has hit my Thunderbird profile... if I chkdsk and it takes out data, what will I have to do to rebuild the profile but keep the emails intact?
14:29:31 <ChrisMorgan> I don't know
14:29:45 <ChrisMorgan> I think it's Data\profile\Mail or something like that
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14:30:02 <ChrisMorgan> But whatever it is, either stop pulling your disk out, use a different USB port, or replace the drive.
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14:30:14 <ChrisMorgan> Hello, pa_8276! Can we help you with anything?
14:30:19 <ChrisMorgan> Apparently not.
14:31:28 <The_Admiral> alright, well I guess we'll see what happens.
14:31:32 <The_Admiral> brb to report
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15:02:16 <The_Admiral> Hmmmm.... PortableThunderbird still isn't working for me
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17:07:54 <AlExAkE> hey hey
17:07:57 <AlExAkE> anybody home?
17:08:16 <ChrisMorgan> AlExAkE: if you have a question, please ask it
17:08:47 <AlExAkE> well, I was looking at post at LifeHacker
17:08:53 <AlExAkE> about the best portable suites and apps
17:08:59 <ChrisMorgan> Ah yes.
17:09:01 <AlExAkE> so far PortableApps are my fav
17:09:13 <AlExAkE> but there is something I wonder
17:09:19 <AlExAkE> I took a look at geeks.menu
17:09:29 <AlExAkE> which has some very cool features
17:09:48 <AlExAkE> my qestion would be, do u plan to implament any of them... some are very useful
17:10:09 <AlExAkE> buggy, and crashy yet very useful
17:10:09 <ChrisMorgan> As features are developed in a completely stable manner, they are released.
17:10:29 <ChrisMorgan> To the best of my knowledge, there has never been a crash in the PortableApps.com Platform.
17:10:39 <AlExAkE> no no portapps
17:10:44 <AlExAkE> portapps works great for me
17:11:00 <ChrisMorgan> Features are being added, but doing them well takes time
17:11:18 <AlExAkE> geeks.menu is the one that crashes, but my question is if u are planning on using some of the freatures there
17:11:26 <AlExAkE> yes I bet
17:11:33 <ChrisMorgan> Also, currently only John T. Haller works on the Platform, and that's as well as all the rest of managing PortableApps.com.
17:12:02 <AlExAkE> do u know if there is a plan for Categories
17:12:13 <AlExAkE> or Search bar
17:12:15 <ChrisMorgan> They are due in 2.1 in a few months time
17:12:29 <AlExAkE> oh that is so cool
17:12:45 <ChrisMorgan> A search bar may come later on, but is not planned any time soon, as implementing it in a really useful way is quite complex.
17:12:53 <AlExAkE> is there like a plan or ideas that the dev are planing to implemenet in future versions?
17:13:00 <ChrisMorgan> And also it detracts from the simplicity of the menu
17:13:37 <ChrisMorgan> Lots of ideas, but currently no real way to share them. Very soon we're getting proper version control set up and then we'll be able to have more people working on the Platform.
17:14:00 <AlExAkE> awesome
17:14:02 <AlExAkE> 1 more thing
17:14:07 <AlExAkE> maybe the most importnat of all
17:14:09 <AlExAkE> updates
17:14:17 <AlExAkE> is there plan to put an updater
17:14:29 <AlExAkE> so it automatically offer to update the menu and apps?
17:14:32 <ChrisMorgan> That's coming in 2.0, due this year.
17:14:47 <AlExAkE> I cant wait :)
17:14:57 <AlExAkE> thanks for the information
17:15:02 <ChrisMorgan> You'll have to wait ;-)
17:15:26 <AlExAkE> Is there any specific place in the forum where features are to be suggested?
17:16:27 <ChrisMorgan> Features can be requested in the PortableApps.com Platform Support forum, but I'm not aware of any feature request for a long time which was plausible and is not already planned or at least discussed in another thread which could be found by searching.
17:17:08 <AlExAkE> I see
17:17:36 <AlExAkE> so do u know about TrueCrypt partitions and instalation to be coming soon ?
17:18:38 <ChrisMorgan> Integration with TrueCrypt (or FreeOTFE) is quite a tricky matter.
17:18:58 <ChrisMorgan> It will be being considered and experimented with around about version 3.0 I think.
17:19:12 <AlExAkE> I see
17:19:22 <AlExAkE> things are looking great, it just too slow :))
17:19:25 <ChrisMorgan> We'll see though
17:19:29 <AlExAkE> I wish there were more people working on it
17:19:38 <ChrisMorgan> There will be soon :-)
17:19:42 <ChrisMorgan> Goodnight now.
17:19:44 *** ChrisMorgan is now known as ChrisMorgan|Away
17:19:54 <AlExAkE> good night
17:19:55 <AlExAkE> and thanks agian
17:20:00 <sar3th> mercurial is coming, maybe there will be more developers then :)
17:20:12 <AlExAkE> what is mercurial?
17:20:24 <ChrisMorgan|Away> A version control system so we can collaborate
17:20:36 <AlExAkE> oo okay, gotch u
17:20:41 <AlExAkE> later, go to sleep :)
17:20:50 <ChrisMorgan|Away> Now I'm not here any more.
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18:18:52 <SteveLamerton> Hello all, I am tidying spam now
18:20:52 <Gizmokid2005> Thanks SteveLamerton :)
18:21:15 <SteveLamerton> What a mess!
18:21:33 <Gizmokid2005> yeah, they've been busy today
18:21:51 <MaienM> yeah, spam tends to be messy :P
18:21:55 <MaienM> hello SteveLamerton
18:22:08 <SteveLamerton> Hi Gizmokid2005, MaienM
18:23:09 <SteveLamerton> Right, all done for now
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18:34:23 <TimClark|j> SteveLamerton: PM please
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19:01:34 <TimClark|j> computerfreaker: remind me, what app are you working
19:01:35 <TimClark|j> on
19:01:53 <computerfreaker> KidSafe and TopOCR
19:02:02 <computerfreaker> just wondering, how come?
19:02:31 <TimClark|j> questions about kidsafe if i may
19:02:47 <TimClark|j> 1. does it reqire admin priv ?
19:02:53 <computerfreaker> nope
19:03:02 <computerfreaker> at least, I haven't had any reports of trouble with non-admin privs
19:03:09 <computerfreaker> and I tested it on my XP box without admin rights
19:03:14 <TimClark|j> 2. what is the principle by which it works, what does it really do?
19:03:18 <computerfreaker> (sorry, I don't have Vista or 7 to know if UAC would get in the way)
19:03:38 <computerfreaker> it hooks into the keyboard and traps certain keystrokes, but *only if the user specifically asked for those keys to be blocked*
19:03:56 <computerfreaker> it also monitors for and kills the Task Manager, but once again this is opt-in
19:04:26 <TimClark|j> 3. What happens if i go to a library, use my flash drive, lock the computer and then pull my flash drive out w/o ending the profram
19:05:04 <TimClark|j> is the computer keyboard still locked
19:05:06 <computerfreaker> upon trying to enter unlock text, KidSafe will detect the absence of a prefs file, display an error message, and abort
19:05:18 <computerfreaker> the keyboard, Task Manager, etc. will be unlocked on exit
19:05:45 <TimClark|j> so, there is no way someone can lock someone else's machine and leave it that way malciously
19:05:54 <computerfreaker> yes, that could be done :(
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19:06:04 <TimClark|j> Really?
19:06:10 <computerfreaker> the unlock text could be set by the attacker, and only the correct unlock text will unlock KidSafe
19:06:29 <computerfreaker> however, rebooting the computer will restore everything UNLESS the attacker has KidSafe set to autorun
19:06:46 <TimClark|j> That makes this an unwelcome app to be as far a publshing it goes
19:06:55 <computerfreaker> not really, IMHO
19:07:05 <TimClark|j> of course not, it's your app
19:07:12 <computerfreaker> Like any other app, with great power comes great potential for abuse
19:07:19 <computerfreaker> and I've tried to make it as attacker-proof as possible
19:07:23 <TimClark|j> how can the computer be rebooted while it is locked
19:07:42 <sar3th> sorry to interfere: power switch?
19:07:45 <computerfreaker> either shut it down with the power button, or (at worst) pull the plug if LockSystemShutdown = true
19:07:50 <TimClark|j> Isn't that rather dangeous
19:07:58 <sar3th> in times of NTFS, no
19:08:17 <TimClark|j> If my computer is locked by someone , i would wind up killing everything just to regain control
19:08:29 <TimClark|j> sar3th: step back please
19:08:40 <computerfreaker> the whole concept, though, is to lock your computer to keep others from causing trouble
19:08:58 <computerfreaker> unfortunately, KidSafe has no way of figuring out if you're locking the system or if somebody's playing a malicious joke on you
19:09:20 <TimClark|j> I have had some problems with the concept of this app from the begining for the reasons i have mentioned
19:09:34 <TimClark|j> i did not want to post till i could talk to you in a place like this
19:09:48 <TimClark|j> instead of the slow back and forth of forum posting
19:09:53 <computerfreaker> ok, I see
19:09:58 <TimClark|j> so i am glad you came in today
19:10:04 <computerfreaker> do you want to go into private messaging so we can talk a bit more about this?
19:10:15 <computerfreaker> I'd like to see what kind of changes you'd like made
19:10:23 <TimClark|j> No, i think this should be dissussed in public
19:10:27 <computerfreaker> ok
19:10:35 <computerfreaker> what changes would you like me to make?
19:10:35 <TimClark|j> it's just faster here than in a topic post
19:10:56 <TimClark|j> A couple of other have expressed concern as well
19:10:58 <TimClark|j> moment
19:11:02 <computerfreaker> ok
19:11:16 <TimClark|j> Well , do you want me to be perfectly honest
19:11:19 <computerfreaker> yes, please
19:11:25 <TimClark|j> and promise not to hate me
19:11:29 <computerfreaker> promise :)
19:11:35 <computerfreaker> even if the truth isn't pretty, I'd still like to know
19:11:41 <computerfreaker> so I can make changes if necessary
19:11:55 <TimClark|j> I think an app that can lock someones machine, w/o Admin privs is dangerous and should not be persued
19:12:07 <computerfreaker> so should I make that require admin rights?
19:12:21 <TimClark|j> without a doubt
19:12:22 <computerfreaker> I specifically tried to avoid admin rights requirements, but I can add those requirements with a single API call
19:12:48 <TimClark|j> a non admin should never be able to stop the admin from getting to the machine
19:12:57 <computerfreaker> looking back at the conversation, I see exactly what you're saying
19:13:06 <TimClark|j> and requireing a reboot to get out of it is very bad form
19:13:06 <computerfreaker> yes, I'll add the admin rights requirement
19:13:18 <computerfreaker> so should I remove the LockSystemShutdown parameter?
19:13:35 <computerfreaker> it was designed to keep a little kid from pressing the power button and shutting down the system (actually happened to me with my little sister)
19:13:36 <TimClark|j> computerfreaker, that is code, i am not a dev :P
19:13:43 <computerfreaker> sorry
19:13:50 <computerfreaker> that just means "prevent system shutdown"
19:14:02 <TimClark|j> it's ok, i can't tell you the right coding , that's all
19:14:09 <computerfreaker> so in other words, should I remove the capability to prevent system shutdown?
19:14:16 <TimClark|j> I'm an op and a mod, but can't program for my life
19:14:23 <computerfreaker> that's ok, I know the code to remove :)
19:14:28 <TimClark|j> but i do have good ideas, and can give feed back
19:14:37 <computerfreaker> I appreciate the feedback :D
19:14:55 <computerfreaker> so... do you think I should remove the capability to prevent system shutdown?
19:15:13 <TimClark|j> well, as i said, i think over all the app is potentially dangerous and only an Admin should be able to use it
19:15:15 <computerfreaker> it was originally supposed to keep a little kid from pressing the power button and wrecking things (which actually happened to me /w/ my little sister)
19:15:17 <computerfreaker> ok
19:15:26 <computerfreaker> so is an admin-rights requirement enough?
19:15:44 <TimClark|j> the problem with open sourse is someone can take your code and remove the Admin Only if you put it in
19:16:04 <computerfreaker> true
19:16:20 <TimClark|j> but i am happy that you have been open to my feed back
19:16:26 <computerfreaker> thank you
19:16:37 <TimClark|j> some of the kids would freak and call me a stuffy old bully
19:16:37 <computerfreaker> I appreciate feedback, even negative feedback; it helps me do better next time :)
19:16:43 <computerfreaker> :O
19:16:45 * computerfreaker doesn't believe it
19:17:11 <TimClark|j> Again, my problem is what COULD be done with the app, not YOU or the app itself
19:17:26 <computerfreaker> well, IMHO any app has potential for abuse
19:17:42 <computerfreaker> take, say, Toucan for example (nothing against it, and I love it, just an example)
19:17:50 <computerfreaker> it could be modified to delete files instead of backing them up
19:17:55 <Gizmokid2005> computerfreaker: TimClark|j: may I add one thing here, that would seem to potentially solve all the issues?
19:17:58 <TimClark|j> toucan abuse ?
19:18:03 <computerfreaker> sure, Gizmokid
19:18:07 <TimClark|j> yes Gizmokid2005
19:19:01 <Gizmokid2005> would it not be possible to make the app kill itself if the drive it was on was removed? I could see people walking around with a flash drive and locking computers, but if you had the app die if the drive was removed, that would solve that
19:19:20 <computerfreaker> I could do that
19:19:28 <TimClark|j> great idea, i did not bring it up as i don't know how to code
19:19:29 <Gizmokid2005> granted
19:19:31 <computerfreaker> if app.ExecutableFile.Exists = false then Quit()
19:19:36 <Gizmokid2005> people could just install it on the local drive
19:19:40 <Gizmokid2005> but that's MUCH less likely to happen
19:19:41 <computerfreaker> yes, to the temp directory
19:19:56 <computerfreaker> but you're right, that would solve a lot of trouble
19:20:01 <computerfreaker> OK, so I've got 2 changes to make
19:20:04 <Gizmokid2005> while, at the same time, a kid could kill the program by removing the drive as well...but it's more/less a give/take for safety sake
19:20:07 <computerfreaker> #1, require admin rights
19:20:18 <computerfreaker> #2, exit automatically if the drive is removed
19:20:23 <computerfreaker> anything else I should change?
19:20:29 <TimClark|j> I think that would be perfect
19:20:38 <Gizmokid2005> really, the admin rights thing, wouldn't /have/ to happen if it would die when removed.
19:20:45 <TimClark|j> and again, thank you for your openness
19:20:45 <Gizmokid2005> but it's still a good change
19:21:12 <computerfreaker> thanks for the suggestions, TimClark|j and Gizmokid2005
19:21:16 <TimClark|j> Gizmokid2005: but if he locked the machine, and went to the bathroom and DIED?
19:21:19 <computerfreaker> I'll implement those and push the fix tonight
19:21:20 <Gizmokid2005> thanks for listening computerfreaker
19:21:25 <Gizmokid2005> TimClark|j: pull the drive :)
19:21:42 <TimClark|j> yes computerfreaker , i have wanted to give you feed back from the begining
19:21:51 <TimClark|j> but was not sure how you might take it
19:22:08 <computerfreaker> I promise, as I've always done, to take all feedback in good spirit :)
19:22:16 <TimClark|j> since it COULD be seen as a negitive reflection
19:22:21 <computerfreaker> and to seriously think about recommendations before saying yes or no
19:22:43 <computerfreaker> negative reflection just means there's a problem with the app; it's my job to fix the app and remove the reflection
19:23:24 <TimClark|j> As long as you make it very hard if not impossible to hurt someone else's machine I'm very happy with it
19:23:29 <computerfreaker> actually, it's just as well I'll be pushing the fix tonight
19:23:43 <computerfreaker> I've got a couple of improvements I had frozen, but now they can go public too :)
19:23:44 <TimClark|j> but as I said, if you open the source, others can undo your fixes
19:24:02 <computerfreaker> TimClark|j: after I fix those issues, any chance of going official?
19:24:18 <TimClark|j> that would be up to john, but I would not stand in the way
19:24:25 <computerfreaker> great, thank you! :D
19:24:29 * computerfreaker is delighted
19:24:39 * TimClark|j is relieved
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19:25:15 <computerfreaker> just checked that API call, and yes - two lines of code to fix both problems
19:25:26 <computerfreaker> if IsUserAnAdmin() = False then Quit()
19:25:33 <computerfreaker> if app.ExecutableFile.Exists = False then Quit()
19:25:35 <computerfreaker> done :)
19:25:44 <computerfreaker> I'll have the fixes out within the hour
19:26:08 <TimClark|j> time to go guys
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19:26:21 <computerfreaker> bye Tim!
19:26:26 <computerfreaker> oops, too late :S
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19:41:03 <BigJim> hey everyone
19:41:05 <BigJim> need some help
19:41:20 <Gizmokid2005> BigJim: just ask your question
19:41:26 <Gizmokid2005> if someone can assist you they will :)
19:42:04 <BigJim> portable Skype will not run (even though it was working great this morning) - states executable is corrupt and to reinstall (which I did and still got the same error)
19:42:17 <BigJim> @gizmokid2005 - was just trying to be polite :)
19:42:42 <Gizmokid2005> BigJim: if you have the same issue, try deleting the directoy and installing fresh. If that doesn't work, you will need to scan your drive for errors.
19:42:49 <Gizmokid2005> Understood, but no need to ask to ask. Just ask :)
19:45:10 <BigJim> when you mean delete the directory, do you mean the entire Skype directory - or just the executable?
19:46:48 <Gizmokid2005> BigJim: the entire SkypePortable folder, or you can rename it if you'd like first.
19:47:17 <BigJim> my only worry is that I'll loose the conversations I had
19:47:24 <Gizmokid2005> then jsut rename it
19:47:25 <Gizmokid2005> for now.
19:47:27 <Gizmokid2005> *just
19:47:27 <BigJim> ok
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20:06:43 <The_Admiral> Hey all, anyone know enough about PortableThunderbird/Thunderbird to help me a bit?
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20:25:16 <computerfreaker|> The_Admiral: what do you need to know? I don't know much about TB, and I don't use it, but maybe I can help...
20:27:18 <The_Admiral> Well when I open up TB, it doesn't detect my profile, even though all of the data is there. It looks like the prefs.js file is corrupt, because it renames it as invalidprefs.js and creates a new prefs file, thus ignoring the data that is already there.
20:30:01 <The_Admiral> wait, I might have got it
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20:34:47 <The_Admiral> score
20:35:08 <The_Admiral> A corrupt header. Killed my Enigmail, but I'll get that back up. w00t
20:37:07 <computerfreaker|> glad you got it working :)
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