IRC Log from 2010-01-02

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02:19:39 <ve4jhj> hey all
02:23:02 <OliverK|Mepis> howdy
02:23:38 <ve4jhj> I'm sure it's been asked before, but I've got a question about adding a specific app to PAP. The application is WxDev-C++, with my set up thus: X:\PortableApps, X:\Dev-cpp. The application exe is in X:\Dev-cpp, with this folder NOT being able to be put in X:\PortableApps. I'm looking to be able to click on the application icon in PAP, and it open the application from OUTSIDE the PortableApps structure. I'm fairly certain it's not possible, but does an
02:25:01 <OliverK|Mepis> http://portableapps.com/node/21757
02:25:16 <OliverK|Mepis> check out that
02:25:55 <OliverK|Mepis> however, set start to ..\..\Dev-Cpp\dev.exe
02:26:41 <OliverK|Mepis> replace dev.exe with whatever the executable name for WxDev-cpp is
02:27:19 <ve4jhj> Heh, there is something out there...I need to add a bookmark to that topic. Thanks, OliverK!
02:36:37 <OliverK|Mepis> no problem
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02:43:08 <Bill> Hello. A new and infrequent user needs advice. Is there an easy way to update multiple applications? I'm sure most of the ~10 apps I installed a couple of months ago have changed.
02:44:10 <WastePotato> I swear there was an app for that
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02:45:48 <OliverK|Mepis> yeahm you can use the updator
02:46:01 <OliverK|Mepis> it still has to download and run each one individually though
02:46:05 <OliverK|Mepis> but it does work
02:47:50 <Bill> And the updater is accessed how?
02:49:32 <Bill> I'll go read the instructions if you'll point me to the appropriate item.
02:51:14 <WastePotato> hmm
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02:54:26 <WastePotato> Perhaps someone else can help, because searching the site just shows versions that have been marked outdated. :/
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02:59:29 <Bill> I think I installed Portable Apps Setup 1.1 from my notes. I don't see an obvious way to verify the version on the Portable Apps menu
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03:01:02 <OliverK|Mepis> sorry
03:01:06 <OliverK|Mepis> laptop shut off
03:01:21 <OliverK|Mepis> .g pa updator site:portableapps.com
03:01:22 <GizmoBot> OliverK|Mepis: http://portableapps.com/node/21711
03:01:25 <OliverK|Mepis> .title
03:01:27 <GizmoBot> OliverK|Mepis: PA.c Updater | PortableApps.com - Portable software for USB drives
03:03:34 <OliverK|Mepis> wow, poor GizmoBot
03:04:52 <OliverK|Mepis> http://portableapps.com/node/16779
03:04:53 <OliverK|Mepis> there
03:05:02 <OliverK|Mepis> .def pa_updater http://portableapps.com/node/16779
03:05:03 <GizmoBot> OliverK|Mepis: Def manipulation is only allowed in #gizmokid2005, #gizmokid2005-def
03:09:36 <Bill> So1) PA Updater is a separate application and 2) the most recent is "Version 1.0 Beta 2 (OUTDATED!!!)"?
03:12:17 <OliverK|Mepis> the first one is wrong
03:12:22 <OliverK|Mepis> the second is right
03:12:33 <OliverK|Mepis> its been 'outdatged' but its the most recent thing we have
03:12:42 <Bill> Repeat from while OliverK|Mepis was offline: I think I installed Portable Apps Setup 1.1 from my notes. I don't see an obvious way to verify the version on the Portable Apps menu
03:12:43 <OliverK|Mepis> it should work, i've used it a few times.
03:13:00 <OliverK|Mepis> mostly to see what apps i have installed that need to be updated.
03:14:06 <OliverK|Mepis> hmm, i need to install wine :)
03:14:16 <OliverK|Mepis> just a sec
03:15:23 <OliverK|Mepis> check under options or help
03:15:29 <Bill> I'll give the PA Updater a try. Even if it only identifies the out of date apps that would be a help.. I'll also try installing the current PA suite. Thanks for the advice.
03:18:05 <OliverK|Mepis> no prblem
03:18:32 <OliverK|Mepis> i'm sorry i can't give definitive instructions on how to find the version of the menu, i'm using linux right now
03:18:48 <Bill> Oh, "Check for Updates" is under Help. So not a separate app?!
03:19:56 <Bill> I don't see a Help | About or Option | About or equivalent in this older version. Trying the update now.
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03:22:48 <Bill> The updater says PA 1.5.2 is available (which even I knew) but does not say anything about other applications I added to try that are not part of the suite.
03:23:33 <ChrisMorgan> Bill: with the Platform 2.0 an updater for all applications is coming.
03:23:35 <Bill> So the updater only applies to the suite itself?
03:23:42 <ChrisMorgan> Currently it's just the platform
03:26:04 <OliverK|Mepis> ChrisMorgan, he wants to update all the packages
03:26:11 <OliverK|Mepis> the platform checks for updates its elf
03:26:25 <OliverK|Mepis> .def pa_updaotr
03:26:26 <GizmoBot> OliverK|Mepis: Sorry, but I don't know about pa_updaotr
03:26:30 <OliverK|Mepis> greah
03:26:30 <OliverK|Mepis> i can't tyoe
03:26:43 <OliverK|Mepis> the pa.com updater will check your installed apps
03:26:49 <OliverK|Mepis> .join #portanleapps-meta
03:26:52 <OliverK|Mepis> dang
03:26:53 <Bill> I'll (im)patiently await 2.0 then. Thanks Oliver and Chris for the help today -- and to all who worked on this interesting tool. Sorry about missing the entry under Help (red face)
03:27:03 <OliverK|Mepis> no problem :)
03:28:25 <Bill> Is the "pa.com updater" the same as Help | Check for Updates?
03:28:35 <OliverK|Mepis> no
03:28:46 <OliverK|Mepis> it will chesolick for updates to your installed applications
03:29:51 <Bill> I'm confused. Where is/what is "pa.com updater"? Is that a reference to http://portableapps.com/node/16779 ?
03:30:03 <OliverK|Mepis> .def pa_updater
03:30:03 <GizmoBot> pa_updater http://portableapps.com/node/16779
03:30:06 <OliverK|Mepis> yes
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03:32:46 <Bill> I don't know what ".def pa_updater" refers to but from your last answer I take it that is 16779 software I should download and install and run and that it will give me at least a list of the apps that I should (or could) update?
03:35:14 <OliverK|Mepis> yes
03:38:34 <Bill> Thanks, all. Off to try the above.
03:44:03 <OliverK|Mepis> i'm off for the night
03:44:05 <OliverK|Mepis> goodnight all
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03:52:01 <GizmoBot> computerfreaker is working on KidSafe and TopOCR, and would very much like to have folks test them and give feedback
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05:53:16 <gluxon> WtF?
05:53:37 <ChrisMorgan> gluxon: bad connection at your end
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06:34:57 <GizmoBot> computerfreaker is working on KidSafe and TopOCR, and would very much like to have folks test them and give feedback
06:35:12 <computerfreaker> ChrisMorgan, please could I talk to you for a few moments?
06:35:24 <ChrisMorgan> computerfreaker: sure
06:35:27 <computerfreaker> thanks
06:35:49 <computerfreaker> just noticed http://portableapps.com/node/22055#comment-138322, and I'd like to know how I should do the KidSafe versioning so it's less confusing
06:36:12 <computerfreaker> I've been trying to be consistent, but apparently that didn't work so well
06:36:39 <ChrisMorgan> Do you reckon it's stable and ready for production use? No crashes possible? Nothing making it worthy of a Beta (or alpha) label?
06:37:14 <ChrisMorgan> One way is "KidSafe 1.0 Beta 1", Beta 2, 3, ...
06:37:59 <computerfreaker> Not certain how stable it is yet. agdurrette and ve4jhj are testing the latest version; it seems to be pretty stable, since the only open bug is some cut-off text
06:38:46 <computerfreaker> Much of 4.* is still there; I essentially pulled out all the unlock text & password protection stuff and replaced it with unlock shortcut stuff instead, so it's got a stable base
06:39:01 <ChrisMorgan> I've never used the program so I'm not the best one to comment really
06:39:40 <computerfreaker> I was wondering what kind of versioning you'd like to see, since you commented it was "really confusing"
06:40:10 <ChrisMorgan> I reckon at that stage linear in /any/ way is better.
06:41:01 <ChrisMorgan> Maybe you could start at "KidSafe 0.50" and then go 0.51, 0.52, 0.53, ... and when you're at 0.78 and decide it's ready for 1.0, go 1.0.
06:41:10 <computerfreaker> ok
06:41:19 <ChrisMorgan> How does that sound?
06:41:27 <computerfreaker> sounds ok, but there's one problem
06:42:04 <computerfreaker> I'm certain it'll never get to 0.78; agdurrette's testing has always been thorough, and there's just one open bug right now
06:42:19 <ChrisMorgan> That was just an arbitrary number
06:42:24 <computerfreaker> ok, great
06:42:26 <ChrisMorgan> I would hope you wouldn't have that many issues open...
06:42:43 <computerfreaker> because I doubt it'll clear 0.65, even if I start at 0.52
06:42:50 <computerfreaker> There's just one open issue right now
06:42:52 <ChrisMorgan> ...that you would need to get up to 38 releases
06:43:07 <ChrisMorgan> Maybe you could think of some new features for it? :-)
06:43:12 <ChrisMorgan> What language is it in?
06:43:19 <computerfreaker> just English right now
06:43:30 <ChrisMorgan> I meant the programming language.
06:43:36 <computerfreaker> sorry... REALbasic
06:43:52 <ChrisMorgan> i18n would be good for it though
06:44:10 <ChrisMorgan> PortableApps.com likes software available in lotsa languages
06:44:20 <computerfreaker> I'm planning to ask for translations *after* development steadies
06:44:37 <computerfreaker> right now, I'd be revising translation strings about 3 times a week - not good
06:44:41 <ChrisMorgan> Have you got i18n support though?
06:44:53 <computerfreaker> REALbasic has the capability to do it, yes
06:44:57 <ChrisMorgan> Try and stabilise language strings before you stabilise the actual product
06:45:04 <ChrisMorgan> Good
06:45:31 <computerfreaker> and a point release would give me the full potential to work with dynamic language strings instead of hard-coded English strings
06:46:30 <computerfreaker> right now, the only real language strings are heavily tied into KidSafe - they're primarily the help files, which are updated after most features are added
06:47:00 <computerfreaker> so I'm pretty much stuck in linear mode - first I have to stabilize development so the help files are stabilized, then I can request translations
06:47:01 <ChrisMorgan> I agree with John that you should try to avoid starting at N.0 and then going further but rather keep a bit below N.0 and do it when you're ready - something like [N-1].9.9.9 is one way of doing it, or N.0 Beta Q
06:47:17 <ChrisMorgan> I reckon that linear development at your stage is a better idea.
06:47:21 <computerfreaker> ok
06:47:26 <computerfreaker> How's this sound?
06:48:00 <computerfreaker> Start at 0.5.2 (shift the current versioning #'s one place right), and each upgrade is a point release
06:48:49 <computerfreaker> major upgrades (e.g. several bugs fixed, several new features added, or a mix) gets a 0.x.0 upgrade; minor upgrades (a few bugs, a minor feature) get 0.0.x upgrades
06:49:08 <ChrisMorgan> Sounds OK. Not /quite/ linear, but fine :-)
06:49:29 <ChrisMorgan> major.minor.point.revision
06:49:47 <ChrisMorgan> Seems to fit the original intent of it all
06:49:49 <ChrisMorgan> :-)
06:49:58 <computerfreaker> the problem with linear versioning is it doesn't get across the idea of major vs. minor fixes; a misspelling gets the same versioning upgrade a big security fix would get
06:50:41 <ChrisMorgan> Before 1.0 I personally don't think that's so much of an issue
06:50:47 <computerfreaker> ok
06:50:52 <ChrisMorgan> But it sounds fine to me :-)
06:50:57 <computerfreaker> great, thanks!
06:51:13 * computerfreaker saves IRC log for future reference
06:51:45 <computerfreaker> I have to head to bed before Dad & Mom take my head off... 'night!
06:51:50 <computerfreaker> and thanks again for the help & advice!
06:51:53 <ChrisMorgan> computerfreaker: there are logs online
06:51:57 <ChrisMorgan> palogbot: uri?
06:51:57 <palogbot> http://nascent-project.org/portableapps/irc/logs?t=2010-01-02#T06-51-57
06:52:07 <ChrisMorgan> You're welcome :-)
06:52:23 <ChrisMorgan> It's interesting... in Australia we'd tend to say Mum and Dad rather than Dad and Mum.
06:52:33 <ChrisMorgan> And we spell mum the *proper* way ;-)
06:52:58 <computerfreaker> I just wanted to save the log so I always have it handy, instead of looking through online archives ;)
06:53:12 <computerfreaker> thanks for the link though!
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07:22:35 <how2java> hello
07:22:46 <how2java> is there anyone here?
07:23:40 <how2java> i need help in how to make java work
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11:59:33 <Ashhh> =]
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20:29:58 <bubbles|> hi
20:30:21 <bubbles|> i have ff installed and installed your portable ff
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20:30:34 <GizmoBot> computerfreaker is working on KidSafe and TopOCR, and would very much like to have folks test them and give feedback
20:30:45 <bubbles|> with -no-remote i can have 2 ffs running if i start portable ff first
20:30:56 <bubbles|> but not the other way round (if i start the installed ff first)
20:31:00 <bubbles|> any idea what i can do?
20:31:19 <computerfreaker> bubbles|: did you try setting the AllowMultipleInstances property to true in FirefoxPortable.ini?
20:31:36 <bubbles|> where do i need to do that? in the portable or on the installed?
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20:31:55 <computerfreaker> In the portable Firefox, look in the Other\Source folder
20:32:03 <computerfreaker> you'll find an INI file called FirefoxPortable.ini
20:32:21 <computerfreaker> copy that to the main FirefoxPortable folder so the INI is in the same folder as FirefoxPortable.exe
20:32:48 <computerfreaker> then, open FirefoxPortable.ini and change AllowMultipleInstances from False to True
20:33:10 <bubbles|> ok, i have AllowMultipleInstances=true now but still the same :\
20:33:15 <bubbles|> anything else i should do?
20:33:27 <computerfreaker> did you close Firefox Portable?
20:33:42 <bubbles|> it isn't running (installed ff is running)
20:33:46 <computerfreaker> ok
20:34:05 <computerfreaker> which FirefoxPortable.ini did you edit? The one in Other\Source or the one you copied to the main FirefoxPortable folder?
20:34:19 <bubbles|> E:\Programme\FirefoxPortable\Other\Source
20:34:25 <computerfreaker> there's your problem
20:34:47 <computerfreaker> copy E:\Programme\FirefoxPortable\Other\Source\FirefoxPortable.ini to E:\Programme\FirefoxPortable
20:35:06 <bubbles|> ah, ok, sry - i didn't read it correctly :x
20:35:11 <computerfreaker> that's ok
20:35:12 <bubbles|> it works now - thanks!
20:35:16 <computerfreaker> you're welcome!
20:35:22 <computerfreaker> anything else we can help you with?
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20:35:27 <bubbles|> one more question, what does the -no-remote parameter exactly do?
20:36:25 <computerfreaker> I believe it's used to run Firefox with multiple profiles at the same time
20:36:41 <computerfreaker> so you can have one Firefox window with, say, a work profile and another Firefox window with, say, a gaming profile
20:37:06 <computerfreaker> that's generally best for installed Firefox though, since you can just create multiple Firefox Portable "installs" to get the same effect
20:37:18 <bubbles|> ah, ok...
20:37:20 <bubbles|> thanks! :D
20:37:31 <computerfreaker> np!
20:37:41 <bubbles|> why are you being so helpful? (this isn't a commercial product right?)
20:37:48 <bubbles|> usually people on irc aren't this nice xD
20:37:51 <computerfreaker> nope, not a commercial product :)
20:38:05 <computerfreaker> I'm being helpful because I believe in PortableApps.com and I want it to succeed
20:38:09 <computerfreaker> I also want its users to succeed
20:38:49 <powerjuce> bubbles|, we pride ourselves on being nicer than the average irc :)
20:39:07 <bubbles|> that's great - thanks again :)
20:39:19 <computerfreaker> no problem!
20:40:34 <computerfreaker> bubbles|: http://turbulentsky.com/how-to-run-multiple-firefox-profiles.html
20:40:45 <computerfreaker> "Normally, if you start Firefox when a copy is already running, it’ll just start another window using the current profile. To start a completely separate instance of Firefox, add the -no-remote option."
20:41:36 <bubbles|> ah, ok - i asked because i saw it here: http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1062975
20:42:05 <bubbles|> but that doesn't work if you don't use multiple profiles
20:42:38 <computerfreaker> actually, it should, at least in theory
20:42:41 <computerfreaker> I haven't tried it though
20:43:22 <computerfreaker> the -no-remote switch is supposed to start a completely new instance of Firefox instead of just opening a new window with the current profile, so (in theory) it should work across Firefox versions as well
20:45:16 <bubbles|> well, it worked partly - if i started ffportable first, i could start the installed ff - but not the other way round (starting installed ff first and then ffportable)
20:46:06 <computerfreaker> I used to have an installed Firefox and a portable Firefox, and, IIRC, it worked OK regardless of which was started first as long as AllowMultipleInstances was true... I might not be remembering correctly though
20:46:45 <bubbles|> yes, with the ini file it works now - without the file it didn't
20:46:54 <computerfreaker> oh, ok
20:48:03 <computerfreaker> by the way, if you want to pass Firefox some parameters (e.g. -safe-mode), you can edit the AdditionalParameters value in FirefoxPortable.ini
20:49:36 <bubbles|> oh, so i can't do that over the command-line?
20:50:18 <computerfreaker> I haven't tried it, to be honest
20:50:23 <computerfreaker> brb, I'll go check
20:51:37 <computerfreaker> yep, passing the parameters to FirefoxPortable.exe via the command-line works!
20:52:16 <computerfreaker> in your case, you'd run "E:\Programme\FirefoxPortable\FirefoxPortable.exe" -safe-mode
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20:52:32 <computerfreaker> you can replace -safe-mode with whatever parameter(s) you'd like
20:56:50 <bubbles|> ok, thank you
20:57:12 <computerfreaker> you're welcome!
21:03:05 <computerfreaker> Question for you guys...
21:03:29 <computerfreaker> http://portableapps.com/node/21474#comment-138389
21:03:52 <computerfreaker> what do you guys think about the wisdom of moving KidSafe to Google Code?
21:04:54 <ve4jhj> my thoughts are already there :P
21:05:43 <computerfreaker> yes, thanks for the input ve4jhj
21:20:58 <computerfreaker> Anyone have an opinion, comments, etc.?
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21:56:52 <ve4jhj> Anybody know how to setup Mercurial to use in conjunction with PAP? ie., either in PAF, or able to be run using sar3th's guide, etc
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