IRC Log from 2010-01-11
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01:03:24 <solanus> Hey.
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01:12:05 <WastePuree> Hi o/
01:13:14 <ZachThibeau> hey rmccue
01:17:58 <solanus> What's shakin? Anybody know how it went for jth in vegas?
01:19:00 <Gizmokid2005> solanus: nope. You'll know as much as we do
01:19:01 <Gizmokid2005> lol
01:23:21 <solanus> Well, I can't take the excitement, so I'm off. I'm hoping to release Hugin Portable soon - I just haven't gotten too many comments. No news is good news, eh?
01:23:46 <solanus> Later all.
01:24:16 <Gizmokid2005> sometimes
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01:24:18 <Gizmokid2005> see ya solanus
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02:53:05 <GizmoBot> Bensawsome is from the PortableApps.com forums, likes waffles VERY MUCH, and has a site at http://www.bensawsome.com . He also maintains StatBot and the IRCStats pages @ http://www.ircstats.info
02:53:21 <OliverK> hello ben :)
02:53:37 <Bensawsome> ohai OliverK
02:53:39 <Bensawsome> wazzup
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03:07:35 <GizmoBot> ...
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03:08:24 <GizmoBot> ZachThibeau is awsome and is currently working on a super cool media player called musicplay3000 aka mp3k
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04:53:31 <GizmoBot> ChrisMorgan is a PortableApps.com developer and moderator
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08:42:43 <WillPittenger> Could someone explain how to install Firefox portable? Do I "install" it straight to the key? The default directory, on Windows, is an undefined location "\firefoxportable".
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09:38:14 <pa_0956> Hi can anyone tell me how I can autorun apps when I start and exit apps menu?
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09:42:30 <pa_5917> hello can anyone tell me how I can autorun apps when I open or close portable apps menu?
09:49:08 <pa_5917> GizmoBot
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10:00:47 <GizmoBot> ChrisMorgan is a PortableApps.com developer and moderator
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10:46:35 <RLH> Hi, is it posible to pose a questions here_
10:46:56 <Oni-Neoxes> Sure RLH
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10:48:55 <RLH> We are using openoffice portable to convert word documents to .odt.
10:49:38 <RLH> However, we have encountered a problem with importing large documents containing a lot of images, fx. 100 mb word file
10:50:21 <RLH> a lot of the pictures disappears and when saving the .odt file the file only contains around half the pages of the original doucments
10:50:38 <RLH> we only see this problem when using very large files.
10:51:35 <ChrisMorgan> RLH: I presume this is an issue with OpenOffice.org itself rather than OpenOffice.org Portable
10:52:08 <ChrisMorgan> Please click on this link (I think you should be able to): #openoffice.org
10:52:13 <RLH> yes i guess. We use the soffice.exe from the commandline. Just went here first because this is the app package we use
10:52:37 <ChrisMorgan> Be aware that that won't be portable then... you must use the launcher for portable usage.
10:52:44 <ChrisMorgan> If you can't, type "/join #openoffice.org"
10:53:06 <ChrisMorgan> Good, I see you got there :-)
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16:36:14 <hsnopi> hello all.
16:36:41 <hsnopi> i am troubleshooting an inssue with UltraCompare Mobilwe. How do I determine what version of PA I have on my Jump Drive?
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18:09:28 <GizmoBot> Bensawsome is from the PortableApps.com forums, likes waffles VERY MUCH, and has a site at http://www.bensawsome.com . He also maintains StatBot and the IRCStats pages @ http://www.ircstats.info
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21:29:26 <GizmoBot> Bensawsome is from the PortableApps.com forums, likes waffles VERY MUCH, and has a site at http://www.bensawsome.com . He also maintains StatBot and the IRCStats pages @ http://www.ircstats.info
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21:47:02 <GizmoBot> ...
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21:48:50 <GizmoBot> ChrisMorgan is a PortableApps.com developer and moderator
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21:57:51 <GizmoBot> Bensawsome is from the PortableApps.com forums, likes waffles VERY MUCH, and has a site at http://www.bensawsome.com . He also maintains StatBot and the IRCStats pages @ http://www.ircstats.info
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22:44:33 <pa_0523> Hey did the feature about autostarting apps ever get put in?
22:44:43 <ChrisMorgan> pa_0523: I believe it's in 1.5
22:45:22 <ChrisMorgan> So if you download the latest version (1.5.2) it should have it in it.
22:45:31 <pa_0523> hmm i can't find it. Is there something I might be missing? Or how its set up? I can't find the docs
22:45:34 <pa_0523> I have 1.5.2
22:45:41 <ChrisMorgan> Right click on the application?
22:45:49 <ChrisMorgan> Or was it just in the 2.0 betas...
22:45:51 <ChrisMorgan> Might have been
22:46:05 <pa_0523> RIght click just lets me rename stuff
22:46:06 <ChrisMorgan> OK, get the Platform 2.0 Beta 3 and it does have it
22:46:18 <ChrisMorgan> Yeah, I'd forgotten. I never use the Platform, you see
22:46:21 <pa_0523> is that gonna be stable enough?
22:46:22 <ChrisMorgan> 2.0 does have it though
22:46:24 <ChrisMorgan> Sure.
22:46:35 <pa_0523> k thanks I'll try it out.
22:46:38 <ChrisMorgan> If anything it's more stable than 1.5.2
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22:47:18 <ChrisMorgan> To the best of my knowledge, we have never had a single crash of the PortableApps.com Platform other than where something else has run it into the ground and forced it to crash (where any application would)
22:47:31 <ChrisMorgan> And I reckon that's a pretty good track record.
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22:50:29 <pa_9127> sorry to bother again, beta3 is the latest? Just wanna make sure before I install. Saw that it was from July of 09
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23:15:40 <GizmoBot> computerfreaker is working on KidSafe and TopOCR, and would very much like to have folks test them and give feedback
23:15:45 <computerfreaker> Hi guys!
23:15:55 <computerfreaker> ChrisMorgan, could I talk to you for a moment?
23:15:59 <ChrisMorgan> Sure
23:16:12 <computerfreaker> great, thanks!
23:16:34 <computerfreaker> I'm not entirely happy about dropping the "old" version of KidSafe, and I'd like to split KidSafe into two branches: Toddler Edition and Preschooler Edition
23:16:48 <computerfreaker> I was wondering if that would be OK?
23:17:06 <ChrisMorgan> I still haven't tried it at all
23:17:23 <computerfreaker> I know, but IMHO that's not a problem
23:17:37 <computerfreaker> I'm just wondering if a branch-split would be OK
23:17:49 <ChrisMorgan> I'd say possibly the best way of doing it is just have two modes that the one program can work in if it's not too much trouble - in your configuration options page have two big radio buttons
23:18:00 <computerfreaker> that wouldn't be a problem
23:18:12 <computerfreaker> the potential for abuse would be a problem again, though
23:18:49 <ChrisMorgan> For the user, that would be simpler, though possibly for development branches would be simpler (in Mercurial or Bazaar anyway, not so much in SVN)
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23:20:08 <computerfreaker> Since John's main objection as the potential for abuse, I was thinking more along the lines of splitting KidSafe entirely; Toddler Edition would require a key combo to unlock and would be abuse-proof, while Preschooler Edition would require a password to unlock and would have a small potential for abuse
23:21:01 <ChrisMorgan> So Toddler Edition is just like with mobile phones you need to press this then that to unlock the keypad
23:21:11 <computerfreaker> yep
23:21:17 <ChrisMorgan> Whereas the Preschooler Edition is just doing the same as locking the computer
23:21:22 <computerfreaker> pretty much
23:21:29 <ChrisMorgan> Except an administrator won't be able to log back in.
23:21:54 <computerfreaker> Toddler Edition, for example, could use Ctrl + Alt + U to unlock (the user would set the combo, of course)
23:22:18 <ChrisMorgan> Theoretically you could make it so an administrative password would let you back in anyway, thus removing the potential for abuse beyond what Windows has itself.
23:22:42 <ChrisMorgan> Spawn a subprocess which requires elevation to admin and get it to report back saying "yep, I'm admin".
23:22:53 <computerfreaker> good idea
23:23:02 <computerfreaker> I'll set that up for Preschooler Edition
23:23:03 <ChrisMorgan> Shouldn't be very difficult if REALbasic is any good.
23:23:08 <WLP|Away> ChrisMorgan: I should note I found that portable apps have three quicks: First, the individual installers (I declined the suite) defaulted to folders that on Windows are invalid outside a command line. Second, I should have installed the menu first, and then the apps, but didn't. Third, please encourage users to keep ".paf.exe" as the extension and not just ".exe".
23:23:13 <computerfreaker> RB can handle it, no problem
23:23:19 <ChrisMorgan> It's simple to do in NSIS with the UAC plug-in in :-)
23:24:01 <ChrisMorgan> WLP|Away: it searches the drive letters available for a directory PortableApps; if it can't find it, what should it choose?
23:24:30 <WLP|Away> Like I said, install the menu first.
23:24:34 <ChrisMorgan> Having an invalid path is preferable, then the end user has to /choose/ where to install it; possibly it should be \PortableApps\AppNamePortable rather than \AppNamePortable, but that's minor
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23:25:12 <ChrisMorgan> .paf.exe is a god thing.
23:25:21 <ChrisMorgan> It lets people know that it's in the PortableApps.com Format.
23:25:28 <ChrisMorgan> It's all part of branding and confidence
23:25:52 <WLP|Away> Well, without it, the installer won't be listed in the Menu's Install New App dialog.
23:27:00 <ChrisMorgan> The install new application dialogue is for applications in the PortableApps.com Format only.
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23:27:22 <ChrisMorgan> It then happens to make sure that the program installs in the correct location and automates a lot of the process.
23:27:32 <ChrisMorgan> There are special features of PortableApps.com Installers.
23:28:00 <WLP|Away> My point is that it assumes the ".exe" files are _NOT_ in paf format.
23:28:18 <ChrisMorgan> Things in the PortableApps.com Format *will* and *must* be published as .paf.exe
23:28:32 <ChrisMorgan> Quite simply, you should NEVER change the file name as generated.
23:28:38 <WLP|Away> If you, like me, save the .paf.exe as .exe, it breaks the concept.
23:28:59 <ChrisMorgan> You mean /you/ break the concept - don't you? Why would you remove the .paf bit?
23:29:09 <ChrisMorgan> Just be thankful it's not like .u3p
23:29:24 <WLP|Away> Because I didn't know that it was special. It was just an EXE at the time.
23:29:39 <computerfreaker> ChrisMorgan: I used to have that same viewpoint
23:29:47 <computerfreaker> I only recently started leaving the installer filenames intact
23:29:47 <ChrisMorgan> If we worked like U3... it'd be just plain .paf rather than .paf.exe.
23:30:48 <ChrisMorgan> In future, it's quite possible that the filename will not be allowed to be changed at all. Currently the only bit which is forced is for online installers, that they have _online.paf.exe on the end
23:31:37 <ChrisMorgan> I just looked at the source code for that bit... and it's got some dead code there which will never evaluate true... the last 15 characters of the executable filename will obviously never be _online.paf.exe.exe or _ONLINE.PAF.EXE.EXE...
23:32:47 <ChrisMorgan> I personally am in favour of forcing no changes to the file name at all.
23:34:45 <ChrisMorgan> And pop up a message box with an option Help, for "Why am I seeing this?" with a link to a page on the website with explanation about product integrity etc.
23:34:55 <ChrisMorgan> Unfortunately though the Help button is unsupported by NSIS installers.
23:37:19 <WLP|Away> Well, because of the directory structure I use, "portable" and the app name can be left out. I just use "Install" followed by the version. I prefer the names be consistent for all apps.
23:37:53 <ChrisMorgan> You're being consistent the wrong way then :P
23:38:26 <WLP|Away> Well, I think it is time to eat. See you.
23:40:09 <computerfreaker> ChrisMorgan: with regards to KidSafe, would branching be OK? Or do you think the password-protected version would be acceptable after the admin password is required to launch?
23:40:47 <ChrisMorgan> I think so long as it's not easily abused, it'd be better as one package.
23:40:54 <computerfreaker> ok, thanks
23:40:59 <computerfreaker> so... how's this sound?
23:41:10 <computerfreaker> one edition, with an option to use unlock text or an unlock shortcut
23:41:26 <computerfreaker> if the unlock text (default) is selected, an admin password is required on launch
23:41:37 <computerfreaker> if the unlock shortcut is selected, no admin password is required
23:41:41 <computerfreaker> sounds ok?
23:42:38 <ChrisMorgan> I was meaning rather the way it's done with standard locking - don't require admin password on startup, but have it instead so that two passwords can unlock it, the KidSafe one or log in as Administrator
23:42:48 <computerfreaker> oh, ok
23:42:59 <ChrisMorgan> Though the one you suggest would also do it well.
23:43:03 <ChrisMorgan> Maybe a third option!
23:43:05 <ChrisMorgan> :D
23:43:35 <computerfreaker> your way works too... but IMHO the standard Windows "Run as" dialog would probably be better, since then I don't have to worry about securely handling passwords, which admin the pwd is for, etc.
23:43:56 <ChrisMorgan> You can hand privilege escalation to the OS
23:44:13 <computerfreaker> yes, which is what I had intended to use the "Run as" dialog for... ;)
23:45:41 <ChrisMorgan> It'd be just the same either way; one requires escalation at the start, the other has an option once locked, as well as the KidSafe password, to unlock as the local administrator, and when that's done, try and escalate, and if successful, send word back to the original process that it worked and now you can unlock it even though they didn't put the password in.
23:46:32 <computerfreaker> interesting idea...
23:48:49 <computerfreaker> I think I like your idea better, provided I can figure out how to manage the escalation properly (read: "securely talking to the OS and securely doing inter-process communication")
23:49:06 <ChrisMorgan> The NSIS UAC plugin can do it fine
23:50:27 <computerfreaker> the primarily problem here would be inter-process communication, since I'd have to spawn a sub-process to get admin rights
23:53:02 <ChrisMorgan> Correct.
23:53:19 <ChrisMorgan> You may be able to get ideas from the UAC plug-in. I've never done any REALbasic work.
23:53:43 <computerfreaker> thanks, I'll look at the UAC plugin
23:53:54 <computerfreaker> I'm looking at the ShellExecuteEx() documentation right now, too
23:53:58 <ChrisMorgan> http://nsis.sf.net/UAC_plug-in
23:56:15 <computerfreaker> oh, here we go
23:56:51 <computerfreaker> ShellExecuteEx returns an error code on failure; I can use that success/failure code to see if authentication was successful
23:57:06 <computerfreaker> and using the "runas" parameter in the ShellExecuteEx call will make the OS handle authentication
23:59:15 *** pa_3731 (i=d8ef44e7@gateway/web/freenode/x-uowmrlcamjnjgplw) has joined #portableapps
23:59:22 <pa_3731> hello