IRC Log from 2010-02-26

00:00:00 <JohnTHaller> Deleted the twitter post
00:01:25 <ChrisMorgan> Usbtastic: the RSS feed is automatically generated
00:02:26 <ChrisMorgan> NathanJ79: the problem with "portable OSes" is merely that there's no good portable VM host software at the moment.
00:02:46 <JohnTHaller> I emailed Zach telling him we'll need to do another full test before reconsidering a release.
00:03:17 <ChrisMorgan> I'm intending to have a crack at VirtualBox Portable (including drivers) with the PortableApps.com Launcher soon. It'll be a /real/ test of that functionality.
00:03:28 <JohnTHaller> indeed
00:03:55 <NathanJ79> And that's fine Chris I don't mind that there are no viable modern portable OSes that fit the PA Format or whatever just that the Mac on a Stick is so out of place.
00:04:05 <ChrisMorgan> I'm expecting to need to fix things in PAL as I go along with it and possibly implement things like DLL registration (easy with NSIS, RegDLL and UnRegDLL)
00:04:24 <JohnTHaller> Can we do a 1.0 release first before trying to make it do everything?
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00:04:38 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: sure, I believe you were doing some fixes though?
00:04:40 <JohnTHaller> Admin and drivers and services is only going to be used by 0.1% of apps.
00:04:57 <Scriptdaemon> Why was PChat pulled from official release?
00:05:04 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon: read the logs
00:05:07 <ChrisMorgan> palogbot: uri
00:05:07 <palogbot> http://nascent-project.org/portableapps/irc/logs?t=2010-02-26#T00-05-07
00:05:59 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: sure; I think admin is now as perfect as it can be (pending testing), and unless I can test services/drivers I'll comment out the segment for the 1.0 release.
00:06:07 <JohnTHaller> Because it crashes when you click on the icon in the systray, which is a dealbreaker
00:06:24 <JohnTHaller> Do you have it all up in the current posted release.
00:06:58 <Scriptdaemon> That was a known thing though, so I figured that was sorted out.
00:07:01 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: no
00:07:07 <ChrisMorgan> I've got no uncommitted code though
00:07:25 <ChrisMorgan> All the code is in hg
00:07:25 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, I have no idea how to use mercurial
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00:08:39 <ChrisMorgan> If you wanted you could download Mercurial and fetch it that way to work on. With the command line version, just "hg clone http://portableapps.hg.sourceforge.net/hgweb/portableapps/launcher/"; and you don't need to worry about it any more.
00:09:48 <ChrisMorgan> Fairly simple really. If I make changes then you "hg pull" and "hg up" (two steps; with bzr or svn it can be one step) to get them, and when you want to commit, "hg ci" (get prompted for the message) and then "hg push"
00:10:04 <JohnTHaller> My eyes already glaxed over :-P
00:10:59 <ChrisMorgan> Very well then; just download Mercurial and do this :-): hg clone http://portableapps.hg.sourceforge.net/hgweb/portableapps/launcher/
00:11:30 <ChrisMorgan> Or the equivalent in TortoiseHg.
00:13:16 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon: same goes to you if you happen to want to test my fixes with RunAsAdmin for Revo Uninstaller
00:13:57 <Scriptdaemon> Can I run Mercurial portably? I'm on a work computer atm.
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00:14:29 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon: the command line version is pretty much portable.
00:14:58 <NathanJ79> Alright it's been fun y'all but I'm gonna go kill some bandits (play Borderlands). Catch y'all on the boards.
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00:16:24 <ChrisMorgan> Should I commit the first skeleton of my new docs so people can see what they're looking like in the next release?
00:17:13 <Scriptdaemon> Hmm, no bueno. Any stand alone builds?
00:17:55 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon: of what?
00:17:57 <ChrisMorgan> PAL?
00:18:01 <ChrisMorgan> Or hg?
00:18:06 <Scriptdaemon> hg.
00:18:26 <ChrisMorgan> Don't know
00:18:37 <Scriptdaemon> Eh, I can fuxx with it after work.
00:18:40 <Scriptdaemon> fuss*
00:18:45 <Scriptdaemon> >.>
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00:37:14 <Usbtastic> now that PChat has been pulled, is there a 'preferred' IRC chat client?
00:37:29 <Usbtastic> (i'm new to IRC)
00:40:07 <JohnTHaller> I use Pidgin myself
00:40:25 <Usbtastic> cool thanks.
00:40:49 <JohnTHaller> Details on configuring it are here: http://portableapps.com/support/chat#pidgin
00:41:39 <ChrisMorgan> When on Windows I quite liked KVIrc.
00:42:06 <ChrisMorgan> On Linux I've been using Pidgin though and it's not so bad as it felt when I was new to IRC
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01:18:21 <Gizmokid2005> Usbtastic: Pidgin is good if you like simple and easy, if you want more customization KVIrc is really extensible and themeable.
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01:36:16 <ChrisMorgan> reStructuredText really works very nicely for the PortableApps.com Format... especially when you can then get nice INI syntax highlighting with .. code-block:: ini :-)
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01:54:24 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: typo in PAF spec, "cuold". Also some plurals the wrong way around (just grammar) - mind if I change them and add a note in history (but don't increment the number)?
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01:56:32 <JohnTHaller> feel free
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02:07:36 <ChrisMorgan> And while I was going through it an improvement for the Installer occurred to me; with CopyFromDirectory instead of using StrReplace to replace lots of strings, you can use the NSIS command ExpandEnvStrings and have all variables available; any variables you have used in it which aren't normally available in that way - the 64, 32 versions - can be set temporarily for the purpose. It's faster.
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02:09:52 <ChrisMorgan> And while I'm at it the code for the "USESCONFIGREAD" flag etc. is unnecessary because of CallArtificialFunction
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02:18:41 <ChrisMorgan> If you look at TextFunc.nsh you'll see that the Config(Read|Write)[S] macros are all completely empty
02:19:19 <ChrisMorgan> Same goes for USESVERSIONCOMPARE
02:20:44 <ChrisMorgan> And when you do FileWrite and then FileWriteByte 13 then 10, you could just do FileWrite $0 "...$\r$\n"
02:24:04 <ChrisMorgan> Your whole ";Custom code" chunk could vanish from InstallerWizard.nsi; in PortableApps.comInstaller.nsi you'd use /nonfatal on the !include and the File commands and then you wouldn't need the !ifdef USESCUSTOMCODE (you'd get another couple of warnings, but there are already always lots of warnings from such things).
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02:24:19 <JohnTHaller> Sorry... I was away.,
02:24:21 <ChrisMorgan> Should I change it and email you a diff (and the complete thing)?
02:25:07 <JohnTHaller> I don't really have enough familiarity with either ExpandEnvStrings or CallArtificialFunction at the moment. I spose I should brush up.
02:25:23 <JohnTHaller> Hang on, I'm posting 1.0.4 tomorrow with 2 bug fixes and some minor enhancements.
02:26:18 <ZachThibeau> http://portableapps.com/node/22773 PChat 1.0.2 Pre-Release 1 functional test, testers are much needed to see if the 2 tray icon issue has been resolved
02:26:39 <ChrisMorgan> The CallArtificialFunction stuff just means that you can drop the !insertmacro stuff for *Func.nsh calls
02:27:31 <ChrisMorgan> So the USES(CONFIG(READ|WRITE)[S]|VERSIONCOMPARE) flags aren't needed, and the code inside their !ifdefs is empty and not needed
02:27:48 <JohnTHaller> That's cool
02:28:43 <ChrisMorgan> Which gets rid of the textreplace::findinfile stuff
02:35:43 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: http://portableapps.pastebin.com/bEaswZjV
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02:44:16 <ChrisMorgan> Also the insertion of the GetFileName, GetParameters, GetParent, GetSize macros in InstallerWizard.nsi can go, and DriveSpace, GetOptions, GetDrives, GetRoot, GetSize, GetFileName, GetParent from PortableApps.comInstaller.nsi
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02:46:56 <ChrisMorgan> Another thing I thought of a while ago, the check to end with _online.paf.exe could be improved; != is case insensitive so the _ONLINE.PAF.EXE check is rendered useless, and also the _online.paf.exe.exe check won't work because you've only taken the last 15 characters; a 15 character string will never equal a 19 character string.
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02:47:50 <ChrisMorgan> (It'd be good if I could commit changes to it in a PortableApps.com Installer repository)
02:49:23 <JohnTHaller> But I gotta learn a source management system first and all those annoying commands. I will at some point, but not in the next month. I'll post 1.0.4 tomorrow and you can build on that for 1.0.5 for now.
02:49:41 <ChrisMorgan> OK.
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03:26:36 <JohnTHaller> And OpenOffice.org 3.2 is up: http://portableapps.com/news/2010-02-25_-_openoffice.org_portable_3.2
03:27:11 <ChrisMorgan> Well done, John. Did you upload it all yourself?
03:27:26 <ChrisMorgan> Uploading 1.3GB of data isn't a task that appeals to me :P
03:28:20 <JohnTHaller> Nope. I have a business-class 30MB down 1MB up connection, though
03:30:12 <ChrisMorgan> We're on Optus cable here, 10Mbps down and 1Mbps up. We could upgrade to their newer plans and get 30Mbps down and (I think) 2Mbps, but that would mean they'd start counting uploaded data too.
03:30:57 <ChrisMorgan> And they're enhancing they're cable service so that by the end of the year, metropolitan Melbourne and Sydney should have 100Mbps down and, I think, 10Mbps up.
03:31:09 <ChrisMorgan> Might have been 100Mbps up as well though
03:31:41 <ChrisMorgan> I wouldn't be surprised if a new data centre or two popped up, outside the 'very expensive rent' city centre. It'd reduce costs enormously.
03:31:56 <JohnTHaller> 1MB up is the fastest connection available to me. NYC and US internet in general is WAY behind the rest of the world
03:32:28 <ChrisMorgan> Funny, isn't it...
03:32:50 <ChrisMorgan> And there was talk a couple of years ago of the UK getting 1Gbps on the east coast by the end of that year. Not sure if that happened
03:33:47 <JohnTHaller> We're struggling to get to 100MB. It will take a LONG time.
03:34:06 <JohnTHaller> Heck, I'd be happy with 10MB up. Ecstatic, actually
03:35:22 <ChrisMorgan> ADSL2+ gets 24/2... but the local exchange is full, otherwise we'd have switched; ADSL2+ is cheaper than both cable (10-30/1) and ADSL
03:36:26 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: move to Australia. Much better place.
03:37:03 * ZachThibeau is getting fiber optic internet :D
03:37:15 <ZachThibeau> speeds up to 60mb/s :)
03:37:49 <JohnTHaller> And the updater.ini is updated with all 15 OO.o packages :-)
03:38:01 <ChrisMorgan> ZachThibeau: normally it's only fibre-optic to the street; street to home is coax
03:38:21 <ZachThibeau> either way I'm getting a sweet internet connection :D
03:38:41 <JohnTHaller> Our fiber network is slowly being built by one company that isn't that good.
03:39:19 <JohnTHaller> Here, we leave internet up to competition with no real public infrastructure investment. The result being that we have the worst internet of all first world countries, i think, at this point.
03:39:40 <ZachThibeau> well so far the company I'm with is currently the first isp in Canada to impliment it Canada wide
03:40:02 <ChrisMorgan> ZachThibeau: Optus this year is taking away the coax bit and making it 100Mbps with direct fibre-optic :-)
03:40:49 <ZachThibeau> nice but 60mb/s is the basic package that I'm getting :P
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03:41:02 <ZachThibeau> it's about $80 per month for me
03:41:11 <JohnTHaller> 30mb down / 1 mb up costs US$85 a month
03:41:42 <JohnTHaller> Many areas the fastest you can get is 5 down 256k up
03:43:54 <ChrisMorgan> If you want to see what my PortableApps.com Launcher manual is currently looking like, http://portableapps.chrismorgan.info/portableapps/launcher/docs/
03:44:14 <ZachThibeau> well looks like the PChat bug is squashed, but I would feel much better with more testers *hint hint* ;)
03:44:42 <ChrisMorgan> ZachThibeau: what about the issue with upgrading? That user said their upgrade had not fixed it, had to do a clean install?
03:45:15 <JohnTHaller> ChrisMorgan: Keep the development details of PA.c Launcher buried. This should be as accessible as possible. THink of it for an end user that has no idea how to compile a thing for the main intro and how to use.
03:45:51 <JohnTHaller> (ie, the installer page should have NOTHING about a source repository or compiling.. that should be in a final chapter for devs only)
03:46:27 <ChrisMorgan> (The HTML help version drops the header, footer and sidebar, leaving just the white area.)
03:46:34 <ChrisMorgan> Yeah, I should rearrange that
03:46:45 <ZachThibeau> ChrisMorgan: well atm I just using the generated installer file so I just added a quick note to my topic about making it a clean install
03:47:10 <ChrisMorgan> ZachThibeau: why is it failing - something in the Data directory which needs deleting?
03:47:18 <JohnTHaller> Honestly, I know how this thing works and looking at the Segments - Hooks page makes me want to close the page.
03:47:42 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: OK :D
03:48:04 <ChrisMorgan> I plan on going through it all at the end to review it... if there ever is an end
03:48:13 <JohnTHaller> Think of it in terms of our target user, which will be our folks who want to try making an app portable. And for folks wanting to make their own app portable easily
03:48:27 <ZachThibeau> ChrisMorgan: dunno but like I said I'm using the PortableApps.com Installer to generate the installer
03:48:50 <JohnTHaller> Just do the basics first. 95% of apps just need to handle 1 registry key and maybe one APPDATA directory and then adjust paths in both. That's it. So that needs to be as dead easy as possible.
03:49:10 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: I was planning on doing a tutorial for it which would be most anyone would need
03:49:57 <ChrisMorgan> ZachThibeau: I presume the App directory gets cleaned, so if something's going wrong still you need some custom code to fix something in Data.
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03:51:19 <ZachThibeau> possibly but like I said I'm using this http://portableapps.com/apps/development/portableapps.com_installer it's not giving me options lol
03:52:19 <JohnTHaller> Ok... wow, I am obtuse
03:52:46 <ChrisMorgan> ZachThibeau: read the PortableApps.com Format specification, section on the Installer, the bit "custom code"
03:52:48 <Scriptdaemon> I'm testing PChat right now btw.
03:52:51 <JohnTHaller> ChrisMorgan: Remember how I said I had code from my old launcher that used the stack to handle the problem of a drive being pulled while the launcher is running so it doesn't miss anything?
03:53:05 <ChrisMorgan> Not that in particular
03:53:28 <JohnTHaller> That's what it was... that's most of it anyway. Are you handling that situation at all?
03:54:31 <ChrisMorgan> I was intending to implement a similar thing myself in cutting it up into hooks, to make it so that if it dies (power off or something like that) it runs the Post hooks when you next run it to fix up the mess
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03:54:37 <ChrisMorgan> Now I do remember it
03:54:59 <ChrisMorgan> Hello, pa_1334! Can we help you with anythign?
03:55:00 <JohnTHaller> Regardless... I'm obtuse, I don't know how I missed this. When the launcher starts up, instantiate the plugins directory, then copy the launcher.ini from where it is to the plugins directory (which is unique to this particular launcher instance in TEMP) and access it from there.
03:55:06 <ZachThibeau> ChrisMorgan: anyways for this purpose it's better to do it as a clean install anyways
03:55:08 <ChrisMorgan> I was intending to use an INI file rather than the stack... it's too easy to get things wrong with the stack.
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03:55:21 <ChrisMorgan> ZachThibeau: your choice
03:55:49 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: why not just lock the file?
03:55:54 <Scriptdaemon> The tray icon is managed by a setting, so it makes sense to do a clean install.
03:55:56 <JohnTHaller> Then we don't need a stack, or a new INI file. We just copy the real one, use it in TEMP and delete it on exit. That way we have access to all the settings in the INI without needing to read them all in ahead of time.
03:56:09 <JohnTHaller> ChrisMorgan: Even locked, if the user pulls the drive, we lose it.
03:56:16 <ChrisMorgan> Oh, I see
03:56:29 <JohnTHaller> Wow. I wish I'd thought of this months ago.
03:56:29 <ZachThibeau> ChrisMorgan: well considering you would still have the config option to have the other icon enabled instead of xtray's plugin so in this instance making an upgrade useless
03:56:42 <ChrisMorgan> I was meaning an INI file to record things like "I failed to load this registry key into the registry, so don't try to save it"
03:56:45 <ChrisMorgan> I've got that in.
03:56:45 <JohnTHaller> Anyway. I have about 100 lines of useless code I just archived.
03:57:29 <ChrisMorgan> Cleaning up is unlikely to go so well if it's not in though... we could put in a little siren sound and play it over and over and over until they pay attention, with a little message box saying "Hey! Put that back in!"
03:57:39 <Scriptdaemon> Btw, ZachThibeau, would you be able to replace all of PChat's (formerly XChat's) tray icon code with the X-Tray code?
03:57:47 <JohnTHaller> ChrisMorgan: Oh, yeah. We can do that with vars or an INI. An INI is probably easiest from a code and maintenance standpoint. And we can even use it as a window into how the launcher is working.
03:58:04 <ChrisMorgan> Yep, that's what I was thinking.
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03:58:46 <ZachThibeau> Scriptdaemon: well not entirely, since the plugin uses specific xchat plugin api where the built in one uses a different set, I would have to rewrite xtray into PChat's source to do that
03:58:46 <Scriptdaemon> An imposter!
03:59:03 <Scriptdaemon> That's what I meant.
03:59:04 <JohnTHaller1> Oh my cable connection also randomly resets itself. Awesome
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03:59:39 <Scriptdaemon> Remove the built-in code and integrate X-Tray. Would that be a possibility?
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03:59:45 <JohnTHaller1> argh
03:59:50 <Scriptdaemon> into the code itself*
03:59:57 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller1: /msg NickServ ghost JohnTHaller
04:00:05 <ChrisMorgan> Then /nick JohnTHaller
04:00:07 <JohnTHaller1> Yeah, I don't know my password. It's saved
04:00:12 <ZachThibeau> Scriptdaemon: like I already said I would have to rewrite xtray to be compatible with xchats base code
04:00:16 <ChrisMorgan> You don't need it when you're logged in
04:00:22 <ChrisMorgan> Which you are
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04:00:28 <JohnTHaller1> oh yeah
04:00:29 <JohnTHaller1> hah
04:00:33 <Scriptdaemon> lol
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04:00:50 <JohnTHaller> I completely forgot that. I am being obtuse tonight.
04:00:51 <ChrisMorgan> I preferred the environment or an INI file to vars mainly because when you have a potentially infinite number of somethings, vars fall down splat without NSISArray or similar
04:01:19 <JohnTHaller> I still can't believe I didn't see the option to copy launcher.ini locally into the plugins dir before now.
04:01:21 <ChrisMorgan> And then I preferred INI to env because it can be more permanent - so when the power goes off you can see "Ahh, I was up to there!"
04:01:24 <JohnTHaller> Yeah. I say go INI.
04:01:30 <Scriptdaemon> Is that your word of the day or something, JohnTHaller? =P
04:01:31 <ChrisMorgan> I have :-)
04:01:55 <ChrisMorgan> Not sure about $PLUGINSDIR though. That would make it unable to be found in case of power outage.
04:02:45 <JohnTHaller> Power outtage is a different story. Hmm. Yeah, we did say we would deal with it somehow.
04:02:51 <ChrisMorgan> I'm more inclined to have $TEMP\$AppID-X--PortableApps-AppNamePortable-launcher.ini, serializing the path into it somehow.
04:02:57 <JohnTHaller> Actually, we're good.
04:03:05 <ChrisMorgan> s/:\\/-/g
04:03:19 <ChrisMorgan> AND then store $PLUGINSDIR in it so that that can be "RMDir /r"ed
04:03:26 <ChrisMorgan> So that that doesn't get left behind.
04:03:41 <JohnTHaller> The rest of the code was to shift our registry saving from doing say HKCU\Software\App rename to HKCU\Software\App-BaclupByAppPortable.
04:03:44 <ChrisMorgan> Or possibly use $PLUGINSDIR and store something in Data to say where $PLUGINSDIR is.
04:03:47 <ChrisMorgan> I've got that
04:04:05 <JohnTHaller> We don't need the INI at all. Neither the main one nor the created one by the launcher.
04:04:21 <ChrisMorgan> Except I put it in HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\PortableApps.com\$AppID\Keys\whatever
04:04:27 <JohnTHaller> As long as the registry keys and APPDATA bits are backed up to the appropriate locations, we can have our startup process move them back.
04:04:55 <JohnTHaller> It'll start up, find em, and fix em. Done deal. No need to check the INIs or where the launchers died.
04:05:21 <ChrisMorgan> "Failed registry keys" is currently the only thing I use the runtime status INI file for. You can't rely on being able to store that in the registry though...
04:05:34 <JohnTHaller> Sure you can.
04:05:44 <JohnTHaller> Don't do registry keys by APPID. Do it based on the existing key.
04:06:10 <JohnTHaller> So HCKU\Software\App becomes HKCU\Software\PortableApps.com\Software\App
04:06:17 <JohnTHaller> Then we know to put it back.
04:06:36 <JohnTHaller> And if it was blank, we could store that as a reg key temporariliy in HKCU\Software\PortableApps.com
04:08:02 <JohnTHaller> That way the platform's failsafe can find it all
04:08:53 <ChrisMorgan> The launcher.ini lines are like this: 7zip_settings=HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\7-Zip. Currently it moves HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\7-Zip to HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\PortableApps.com\$AppID\Keys\7zip_settings.
04:09:46 <ChrisMorgan> In some ways it'd be easier if we just had a single portable registry hive... the problem with your platform's failsafe is that it won't put settings back - it'll just grind the portable settings into oblivion and replace them with the local settings.
04:10:07 <JohnTHaller> Which is exactly what it should do
04:10:23 <ChrisMorgan> Why? Why shouldn't the launcher save the portable settings?
04:10:35 <JohnTHaller> There's a good chance that's not their machine. Above all, the machine should be exactly as it was before we touch it.
04:11:22 <ChrisMorgan> But if you've got the Platform you'll have the launcher, and so you can do it properly
04:11:24 <JohnTHaller> The launcher should. But in a drive pull, all data is gonna get ditched by the launcher. In a power outtage, all unsaved data is gonna get diteched by the failsafe. That's the way it should be. ANd honestly, we're not gonna be losing much. Maybe a couple settings.
04:11:44 <ChrisMorgan> But people could view it as important.
04:11:52 <ChrisMorgan> Situation: Drive pull.
04:11:52 <JohnTHaller> No, you can't. If a machine powers off, there's a good chance that our portable user will be nowhere nearby when it is powered on again.
04:12:26 <ChrisMorgan> Launcher pulls up a message box saying "Erk! You pulled it out! Put it back in and press OK or press Cancel to destroy your data"
04:12:33 <JohnTHaller> Drive pull. All apps get killed forcibly by the platform. The launchers will see the apps close, attempt to move stuff back and fail but should fail gracefully, killing all portable data.
04:12:50 <JohnTHaller> On a drive pull, most apps will immediately crash anyway.
04:12:53 <ChrisMorgan> I much prefer the idea of "Please put your disk back in or you'll lose your settings"
04:13:02 <JohnTHaller> We can't. The apps have already crashed
04:13:23 <ChrisMorgan> I disagree; as a matter of fact I can't think of one that I've ever had crash when in a faulty USB port and the connection drops off
04:13:58 <ChrisMorgan> Nevertheless: the apps may crash, but the launchers don't need to. They won't crash, and so if you put the disk back in they can restore the data.
04:14:25 <JohnTHaller> But if they DON'T come back. All that possibly personal data sits on that PC. That they may no longer have access to?
04:14:52 <ChrisMorgan> "You have 60 seconds to put your disk back in, or else you will lose all data not saved yet."
04:15:07 <JohnTHaller> I pulled the drive and FF crashed
04:15:09 <ChrisMorgan> A bit tricky in NSIS, but possible in the Platform
04:15:21 <ChrisMorgan> Didn't when it was at 2.0...
04:15:32 <JohnTHaller> A drive pull means everything gets killed. And the PC gets reset.
04:15:53 <ChrisMorgan> I'd prefer at least a 30 second leeway.
04:16:34 <JohnTHaller> There's no reason to. They're not gonna lose documents or anything like that. They most they'll lose is settings changes.
04:16:37 <ChrisMorgan> You do get computers with faulty USB ports; I don't think people will like it if they can never the PortableApps.com Platform on that computer because it kills everything, whereas if they bypass it it works fine.
04:16:51 <JohnTHaller> The apps will still crash
04:16:58 <ChrisMorgan> They may - or they may not.
04:17:14 <JohnTHaller> FF, our most popular app and the main reason people use portable apps does
04:17:16 <ChrisMorgan> And in the case of power outage, what if the PortableApps.com Platform isn't put back in? There's no way of clearing up until it comes back.
04:17:29 <JohnTHaller> Of course there is. The failsafe.
04:17:32 <ChrisMorgan> How about just a flicker, if you pull and put it back in
04:18:02 <ChrisMorgan> "Oh dear, I just lost power! Quick, before the hard disk drive stops spinning, erase the PortableApps.com registry key!" ;-)
04:18:05 <JohnTHaller> The failsafe is put on the local machine. Set to autostart with windows. By the platform. On a power outtage, it'll run and be sure the PC is set back to normal. It can do that with all the reg keys in the right place easily.
04:18:15 <ChrisMorgan> Oh...
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04:18:32 <ChrisMorgan> Not sure I like the sound of that. I think anti-malware software would kick up a fuss about it.
04:18:33 <Everest> anyone free to help here ?
04:18:38 <JohnTHaller> That's what the failsafe is. That's why we can't rely on the platform or the launchers or individual INIs.
04:18:39 <ChrisMorgan> Everest: feel free to ask a question
04:18:43 <JohnTHaller> Everest: How can we help you
04:19:03 <Everest> about "Warzone 2100 Portable"
04:19:18 <Everest> why don't you offer the Beta 10 ?
04:19:32 <ChrisMorgan> Everest: we don't tend to do betas
04:19:52 <Everest> too bad..
04:19:54 <JohnTHaller> We only do bets where people need to test them along local stuff of the most popular software like FF and Google Chrome.
04:20:05 <Everest> I see
04:20:18 <JohnTHaller> We only have a certain amount of dev time and there are lots of other stable apps awaiting release :-)
04:20:47 <JohnTHaller> If you want to use it yourself, you can probably copy your local install into Warzone2100Portable\app\warzone2100
04:20:52 <Everest> how do I get "Beta 10" as an archive?
04:21:10 <JohnTHaller> You don't/ They only make it available as an installer
04:21:36 <ChrisMorgan> You may be able to extract it with 7-Zip
04:21:37 <Everest> cuz I'm lacking Admin rights on this machine :s
04:21:51 <JohnTHaller> Ah. Yeah, what ChrisMorgan said. 7-Zip can open many installers
04:22:02 <Everest> I tried to extract but when I launch it I get an error
04:22:13 <ChrisMorgan> OK
04:22:25 <JohnTHaller> Guess it doesn't work then
04:22:25 <ChrisMorgan> Too bad then :-(
04:22:26 <Everest> maybe I need to organize the folders, can someone help me with this ?
04:22:43 <ChrisMorgan> No, if 7-Zip says it can't recognise it it won't work with it
04:22:47 <JohnTHaller> Check out the folder structure of the one inside WarZone2100Portable\App\Warzone2100
04:22:58 <Everest> I managed to un-zip
04:23:07 <Everest> ok ok
04:23:13 <Everest> I'll try that
04:23:15 <JohnTHaller> Move the files around to match the existing one. THat may do it
04:23:30 <Everest> another Q..
04:23:45 <ChrisMorgan> Sorry, I misunderstood what you said. Good you've got it :-)
04:23:54 <Everest> how do I get Portable Adobe Flash player (latest version) ??
04:24:10 <Everest> plug-in
04:24:23 <Everest> for Chrome 5
04:25:00 <JohnTHaller> I don't know offhand unfortunately. I'm not a Chrome user
04:25:11 <JohnTHaller> Does it have any info in the help.html file?
04:26:03 <ChrisMorgan> I'm a Chrome user... but on Linux only, so I can't help you directly either.
04:26:08 <ChrisMorgan> It's been discussed recently though
04:26:28 <ChrisMorgan> http://portableapps.com/search/node/chrome+flash
04:26:48 <ChrisMorgan> http://portableapps.com/news/2009-11-19_-_google_chrome_portable_3.0.195.33#comment-133974
04:27:12 <ChrisMorgan> That will require you to have installed it first though.
04:27:29 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: would your flash installer for Firefox produce the needed files?
04:27:37 <JohnTHaller> It should yes
04:27:47 <JohnTHaller> I should update that and build one for Chrome, too
04:28:21 <ChrisMorgan> Jhonn says that only NPSWF32.dll is needed
04:28:55 <ChrisMorgan> Or if there was a way you could get Chrome and Firefox to recognise it in another directory in CommonFiles...
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04:31:22 <Everest> it should be available just like Java Portable and installed in the "Common" folder
04:31:36 <ChrisMorgan> Everest: the point is whether it's possible or not.
04:31:39 <Everest> *"CommonFiles" folder
04:31:52 <ChrisMorgan> You've got to have some way of getting Chrome and Firefox to look there for plug-ins
04:32:43 <Everest> if it's possible with OpenOffice+Java then it should be possible with Chrome+Flash
04:32:48 <JohnTHaller> I don't think Chrome can atm. But I am working on a way to handle Flash portablization at the platform level and have it maintain the plugin.
04:32:58 <Everest> using common sense :D
04:33:05 <JohnTHaller> OpenOffice.org has a setting to point to Java., Chrome does not.
04:33:17 <JohnTHaller> Chrome is a much more simplistic browser than Firefox, so it doesn't portablize as well
04:34:54 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: I wonder whether we're ending up depending too much upon the PortableApps.com Platform. In some ways it'd be good if there was a way of using some features of it without the UI, e.g. fonts, plug-ins; a "PortableApps.com Environment". Sounds too much like hard work though..
04:36:29 <JohnTHaller> Environment is the whole point of the platform. Not just a menu.
04:38:41 <ChrisMorgan> Yeah, I know. Some people don't like the menu bit though, at least to launch applications from
04:38:56 <ChrisMorgan> I don't think it'd be worth the effort required at the moment though
04:39:07 <JohnTHaller> In which case, they can have it start minimized.
04:39:26 <JohnTHaller> But the whole deal of env vars and such, you have to have one process start another. Which begets a launch menu.
04:39:40 <ChrisMorgan> True
04:40:17 <JohnTHaller> And don't forget that by the time these debut, we'll have categories and autorunning utilities at start and exit which are the main things people miss in the PA.c Menu
04:40:39 <JohnTHaller> One of the reasons I haven't added things like that into 1.6 is because I want the menu to the point that it fits the bill for most people first.
04:41:30 <JohnTHaller> I can do a Flash installer for Chrome now. Got the test of it built. I'll post it and the Firefox one updated tomorrow.
04:42:33 <ChrisMorgan> Is it PAI-generated?
04:43:15 <JohnTHaller> yup :-)
04:44:06 <ChrisMorgan> OK. If it wasn't I'd say do both in the one bundle...
04:44:25 <ChrisMorgan> As it is it'd be difficult at best to do it well
04:44:30 <ChrisMorgan> Impossible I think I'd say
04:45:07 <Everest> what do you mean JohnTHaller? we can install flash for chrome now?
04:45:08 <JohnTHaller> alright... gonna go to bed before midnight tonight after my 3am last night... so I am off
04:45:16 <JohnTHaller> You'll be able to tomorrow.
04:45:30 <Everest> great job
04:45:50 <Everest> does Chrome recognize flash portable
04:45:53 <Everest> ??
04:45:58 <JohnTHaller> Watch the beta forums for a post. I'll have folks test em over the weekend.
04:46:10 <JohnTHaller> Flash isn't portable by nature. It leaves all settings and cache behind.
04:46:11 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: back on our discussion of the registry backup location, do you want me to abandon the $AppID scheme and put things instead like HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\PortableApps.com\HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\7-Zip?
04:46:11 <Everest> ***does Chrome recognize Java portable
04:46:20 <JohnTHaller> ChrisMorgan: Yeah
04:46:25 <JohnTHaller> Everest: Nope
04:46:31 <JohnTHaller> Chrome requires local Javba
04:46:33 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: what about backed up /values/?
04:47:16 <ChrisMorgan> I have RegistryValueBackupDelete for single temp-type values which still should be restored at the end (e.g. storing the path of the executable)
04:47:35 <ChrisMorgan> They go to HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\PortableApps.com\$AppID\Values\HKEY_...
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04:47:58 <JohnTHaller> Come up with an equiv within the PA.c key. I can't think of anything right now... but I'm nearly asleep
04:48:16 <ChrisMorgan> It could work with chucking the $AppID\Values.
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04:48:29 <ChrisMorgan> Or I could do HKCU\Software\PortableApps\Keys for the first batch
04:48:49 <JohnTHaller> That could work.
04:49:11 <ChrisMorgan> OK, so I'll just drop the $AppID bit and make the keys use the full path rather than the file name minus .reg
04:50:03 <JohnTHaller> Ok. I'm crashing. Gnight all
04:50:14 <ChrisMorgan> Good night, sleep well and long :-)
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11:25:55 <nixp23> MaienM|Sleep, just wanted to say that your approach of deleting all other languages and leaving only en_GB folder worked flawlessly :)
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11:26:17 <nixp23> (in X-Chat)
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11:47:32 <AGGELOS> hi i am looking for "ccleaner" portable can you help me??
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14:15:28 <GizmoBot> Chazz is the awesome developer of Bash Portable http://portableapps.com/node/20277 and GEdit Portable! (And Gnumeric Portable) :D
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14:32:01 <GizmoBot> Chazz is the awesome developer of Bash Portable http://portableapps.com/node/20277 and GEdit Portable! (And Gnumeric Portable) :D
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14:40:57 <GizmoBot> ...
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15:30:17 <rcmaehl_school> I think the PAP should have clamwin built in
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15:42:58 <bahurim> hello anyone home?
15:43:41 <SteveLamerton> Hi bahurim, what can we do for you?
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15:44:38 <bahurim> I have been having problems with the webpage not displaying properly, i.e. openoffice main page does not show up
15:45:17 <bahurim> There are several other pages like bpbible, jooleem that do the same. I am using the firefox 3.6 portable.
15:45:35 <SteveLamerton> Ok, is it only on portableapps.com?
15:45:41 <bahurim> yes
15:45:55 <bahurim> some of the pages work and some do not, kinda weird
15:46:31 <SteveLamerton> Are you at home or at work?
15:47:05 <bahurim> work, and behind a proxy, proxy does not seem to be the issue though
15:47:35 <SteveLamerton> Ok, just checking, have you emptied the cache recently?
15:48:14 <bahurim> no, I will try that, wait one
15:53:07 <bahurim> Not sure where the cache is kept, would it be in: C:\Documents and Settings\mbainum\Local Settings\Application Data\Mozilla
15:54:03 <MaienM> you can do so from within firefox, Tools -> Clear Caches
15:57:02 <bahurim> thanks MaienM that did it, it was actually under "Tools -> Clear Recent History" which was a little misleading.
15:58:20 <bahurim> I did that and browsed to the troublesome pages with success so thanks Steve looks like that fixed it. I will keep that in mind.
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15:59:53 <SteveLamerton> Glad that helped, no idea why it got messed up though!
16:01:05 <bahurim> BTW, guys keep up the good work, I love the apps and having them handy on my flash drive. Lifesavers sometimes.
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16:13:35 <pa_2816> there is a link in a webpage that does not work properly, whom should i contact?
16:14:29 <pa_2816> help!
16:14:29 <GizmoBot> pa_2816: Welcome to the PortableApps.com official chatroom. Ask your question and someone should be able to help you shortly. If you still don't get an answer, try posting on the forums: http://portableapps.com/forums
16:15:39 <sar3th> hello pa_2816, just post the link in here
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16:16:12 <pa_2816> ok, here it comes
16:16:39 <pa_2816> on page http://portableapps.com/news/2010-02-24_-_seamonkey_portable_2.0.3 there is a link,,,
16:16:54 <pa_2816> Read on for more details...
16:17:10 <pa_2816> but it links to the same page instead one with more details...
16:17:33 <pa_2816> can it be fixed? i want to know the details?
16:19:46 <sar3th> hm, i don't know...the news seem to be broken
16:19:53 <sar3th> a mod probably can fix this
16:21:42 <pa_2816> what is the e-mail address for comments on the website anyway? can't find any on the http://portableapps.com/about/contact page
16:22:25 <sar3th> what do you mean with "e-mail adress for comments"?
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16:28:37 <Bensawsome> just comment directly on tyhe new item pa_2816
16:29:32 <Bensawsome> *news
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16:31:26 <pa_2816> i mean if a link on www.portableapps.com does not work, where to write to?
16:32:01 <Bensawsome> you dont
16:32:05 <Bensawsome> you comment on the item
16:32:11 <Bensawsome> look at the bottom of the news item
16:32:28 <Bensawsome> just make a comment there saying a link is broken and tell them which one
16:32:44 <Bensawsome> and a mod should see it and fix it
16:33:41 <pa_2816> ok
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16:42:09 <pa_2816> Done. Can this way to contact about the website/item be included in http://portableapps.com/about/contact ?
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17:43:21 <Guest40382> Anyone post a link to changing the look or theme of the portable apps menu?
17:45:46 <Guest40382> Anyone post a link to changing the look or theme of the portable apps menu?
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17:52:21 <Siddharth> help
17:53:21 <Siddharth> how to i move my email from normal thunderbird to thunderbird portable
17:53:35 <Siddharth> i have about 12000 emails
17:54:33 <Siddharth> hello, is there anybody to help
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18:29:25 <GizmoBot> Chazz is the awesome developer of Bash Portable http://portableapps.com/node/20277 and GEdit Portable! (And Gnumeric Portable) :D
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18:59:00 <GizmoBot> Chazz is the awesome developer of Bash Portable http://portableapps.com/node/20277 and GEdit Portable! (And Gnumeric Portable) :D
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20:19:27 <GizmoBot> MaienM is MaienM. He is the developer of The Mana World Portable, and he has a website at http://mmfail.co.cc/
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20:41:38 <GizmoBot> Chazz is the awesome developer of Bash Portable http://portableapps.com/node/20277 and GEdit Portable! (And Gnumeric Portable) :D
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21:22:24 <GizmoBot> Chazz is the awesome developer of Bash Portable http://portableapps.com/node/20277 and GEdit Portable! (And Gnumeric Portable) :D
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21:29:04 <The_MAZZTer> hey what about me! >:(
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23:00:57 <GizmoBot> MaienM is MaienM. He is the developer of The Mana World Portable, and he has a website at http://mmfail.co.cc/
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23:21:37 <GizmoBot> Chazz is the awesome developer of Bash Portable http://portableapps.com/node/20277 and GEdit Portable! (And Gnumeric Portable) :D
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23:42:04 <pa_3734> hi
23:42:16 <pa_3734> is i tpossible use utorrent with portable apps
23:42:17 <pa_3734> ?
23:43:02 <Bensawsome> pa_3734: http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/utorrent_portable
23:43:17 <Bensawsome> right on the apps page under internet apps
23:43:24 <pa_3734> thx
23:43:30 <pa_3734> how do i put it in the usb
23:43:42 <Bensawsome> download it to your desktop
23:43:49 <pa_3734> then
23:43:55 <Bensawsome> then double click the exe
23:44:05 <Bensawsome> and go through the install wizard
23:44:14 <pa_3734> ok
23:44:14 <pa_3734> thx u
23:44:17 <Bensawsome> no prob
23:44:32 <pa_3734> how ling have u been using portable apps
23:44:36 <pa_3734> i saw it today
23:44:52 <Bensawsome> 2 or 3 years now i think
23:45:32 <pa_3734> has it been usful
23:45:32 <pa_3734> ?
23:45:38 <pa_3734> any virus over the periord
23:45:44 <Bensawsome> nope
23:45:47 <Bensawsome> its completyely clean
23:46:11 <pa_3734> wat do u use it for
23:46:11 <pa_3734> ?
23:46:31 <Bensawsome> various things
23:46:40 <Bensawsome> although i dont use it much anymore now that i got a laptop
23:46:52 <Bensawsome> mainly just browsing if i dont have my laptop
23:48:27 <pa_3734> o
23:48:44 <pa_3734> does it save ur book mark
23:49:13 <Bensawsome> ya
23:49:17 <Bensawsome> it saves everything dude
23:49:44 <pa_3734> that kool