IRC Log from 2010-03-17
00:04:49 *** ChrisMorgan (~768aa285@gateway/web/freenode/x-aurgflmgrzgnokdy) has joined #portableapps
00:04:49 <GizmoBot> ChrisMorgan is a PortableApps.com developer and moderator and works on the PortableApps.com Launcher (please test it!)
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00:24:39 <Spaceghost> where can I find info of how use the advantages of Command Prompt Portable?
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00:32:27 <GizmoBot> Bensawsome is from the PortableApps.com forums, likes waffles VERY MUCH, and has a site at http://www.bensawsome.com . He also maintains StatBot and the IRCStats pages @ http://www.bensawsome.com/ircstats
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00:34:11 <ChrisMorgan> Spaceghost: any commands you want run whenever you start it go in Data\Batch\commandprompt.bat
00:34:23 <ChrisMorgan> For myself doskey macros are something I find indispensible.
00:34:54 <ChrisMorgan> So that "vi" will start gVim Portable, "ff" Firefox Portable, "fz" FileZilla, etc.
00:34:59 <Spaceghost> ah, let me see
00:35:06 <Spaceghost> :O
00:35:41 <Spaceghost> I need do one, for ever that I compiles with some options
00:36:10 <ChrisMorgan> Doskey macros are the best thing about Command Prompt.
00:38:39 <ChrisMorgan> This is funny... I use my own USB disk and what versions of things do I have? gVim Portable: 7.2 Development Test 3 (now final and better); Inkscape Portable: r21486 Functionality Test (pre-0.47)...
00:48:48 <Spaceghost> ChrisMorgan, for example, what I need do for make a macro that do: "xc =compile archivo1.mod" when I put "compile archivo1.mod"?
00:53:47 <Spaceghost> what said your commandprompt.bat for example?
00:56:24 <ChrisMorgan> set USBDisk=%cd:~0,2%
00:56:35 <ChrisMorgan> set PADir=%USBDisk%\PortableApps
00:56:49 <ChrisMorgan> (Then I can use %PADir% for my macros)
00:57:08 <ChrisMorgan> doskey /macrofile=%PADir%\CommandPromptPortable\Data\Batch\doskey.txt
00:57:22 <ChrisMorgan> Then my doskey.txt file is like this:
00:57:25 <ChrisMorgan> cd=cd /d $*
00:57:38 <ChrisMorgan> vi=%PADIR%\gVimPortable\gVimPortable.exe $*
00:57:47 <ChrisMorgan> ff=%PADIR%\FirefoxPortable\FirefoxPortable.exe $*
00:57:55 <ChrisMorgan> (The $* is all the arguments passed)
00:58:06 <ChrisMorgan> Bye, I've got a lecture now. Hope that helps you.
00:58:25 <ChrisMorgan> (cd /d means that if you put a different drive it switches drive automatically)
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01:21:01 <GizmoBot> SergentSiler is a PortableApps.com Menu Themer, his theme website is http://silerhost.site50.net
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01:56:42 <GizmoBot> SergentSiler is a PortableApps.com Menu Themer, his theme website is http://silerhost.site50.net
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02:03:32 <pa_7369> Can somebody explain how do u install a portable app on your usb drive?
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02:06:59 <dbdii407> Yes. But you kinda left. Sorry.
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02:50:02 <GizmoBot> ChrisMorgan is a PortableApps.com developer and moderator and works on the PortableApps.com Launcher (please test it!)
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02:53:14 <JohnTHaller> hola
02:55:27 <ChrisMorgan> Hey JohnTHaller
02:55:46 <ChrisMorgan> I release the PortableApps.com Launcher 1.0 Beta 1 last night :-)
02:55:58 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, saw that. Nice job, man.
02:57:39 <ChrisMorgan> And yesterday while here at Uni I even managed to build a CHM out of my new PAL docs (still not changed from the first lot I showed you) :-)
02:57:56 <JohnTHaller> cool
02:59:41 <ChrisMorgan> The only difficult bit was getting Sphinx etc. into Python on my USB disk sans easy_install. After that it was just "make htmlhelp" and compile the hhp file.
03:02:46 <JohnTHaller> Go you
03:03:21 <JohnTHaller> I found an app that won't be PA.c Luancher-able. aMSN. I have to FindFirst my way through all the directories within a directory looking for profile settings files and updating them.
03:04:37 <ChrisMorgan> Except with a custom segment. Then it's easy.
03:04:49 <JohnTHaller> Oh yeah. Forgots about that.
03:04:50 <ChrisMorgan> My Code::Blocks launcher also does that.
03:05:00 <JohnTHaller> Annoying way to setup an app.
03:05:38 <ChrisMorgan> It's got "personalities" (profiles) and so I put a way of supporting multiple personalities like that. Its "personality manager" is still portable so then I could just leave it to it to prompt the user for the personality.
03:05:47 <ChrisMorgan> Then it was just a matter of updating drive letters in all of them.
03:06:43 <ChrisMorgan> Makes me wonder whether FileWrite should support a * wildcard intelligently. That's two applications which could do with it.
03:07:00 <ChrisMorgan> What's the format with aMSN, something like Data\profiles\*?
03:07:48 <ChrisMorgan> With Code::Blocks it's Data\personalitites\*.conf
03:08:09 <JohnTHaller> Data\settings\amsn\[profilename]\config.xml
03:08:11 <ChrisMorgan> Except at the time I used Locate rather than Find(First|Next)
03:08:48 <ChrisMorgan> So it needs to be able to cope with * in the directory name too - pulling apart the path. Don't think Find* would cope with that.
03:09:10 <JohnTHaller> I just loop through all the directories and then check for the files.
03:09:41 <ChrisMorgan> I was just thinking about whether it could be done /without/ examining the path - I don't think it can be.
03:09:54 <ChrisMorgan> I reckon I could do it though without too much difficulty.
03:10:25 <ChrisMorgan> Scan for *, if it's there work out if it's a directory/file, then pull the bits apart like that.
03:11:11 <ChrisMorgan> Regarding Launcher localisation, should I jump on the really old 1.x bandwagon or create a new thread? I think I'd go for the latter.
03:13:01 <JohnTHaller> Yeah. New thread,
03:13:10 <ChrisMorgan> "PortableApps.com Launchers 1.X" and "PortableApps.com Launcher 1.0" :-/
03:15:49 <JohnTHaller> We could call it 2.0 :-D
03:16:06 <JohnTHaller> Which would make a bit of sense in terms of the actual launcher versions, too
03:16:17 <JohnTHaller> App-wise, I mean
03:16:38 <ChrisMorgan> Probably.
03:16:45 <ChrisMorgan> And "2.0" is... yeah.
03:17:40 <JohnTHaller> Platform 2.0. Suite 2.0. Theme format 2.0.
03:18:07 <ChrisMorgan> I think I shall bump it to 2.0 then.
03:19:23 <JohnTHaller> Although PA.c Format itself is still 1.0
03:19:41 <ChrisMorgan> Quick! Push it up! ;-)
03:19:52 <ChrisMorgan> I don't think it should be 2.0 though.
03:19:55 <JohnTHaller> Heh, no good reason. Would freak people out too
03:21:04 <ChrisMorgan> We could have 1.1 with PAL specs as well, or 1.0.1 (App\AppInfo\Launcher is governed by the PortableApps.com Launcher, for details on what goes in there see `this page`_)
03:21:21 <ChrisMorgan> Though on second thoughts...
03:21:42 <ChrisMorgan> PAM hasn't supported PAF 1.0 properly till 1.5.
03:21:55 <ChrisMorgan> Then there's PAI 1.0 too... hmm.
03:22:42 <ChrisMorgan> If it was just PAF maybe it'd be better to keep parallel versions. But then you might want to do PAI too (parallel versions is more important for it on PAF than PAM on PAF).
03:22:51 <ChrisMorgan> So it's probably best to leave PAF at 1
03:24:04 <sar3th> this is all very confusing ;)
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03:30:31 <JohnTHaller> Isn't it, though.
03:31:03 <JohnTHaller> ChrisMorgan: What do you think is a solid ETA on doing a stable release?
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03:31:42 <ChrisMorgan> I'd /like/ to go through and test absolutely every little thing, but I don't have two months spare for it.
03:31:54 <JohnTHaller> Yeah. Me neither.
03:32:31 <ChrisMorgan> So I think I'm just going to settle for downloading most/all our applications and writing Launcher INI files for them and testing them that way.
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03:32:54 <ChrisMorgan> And just make sure that they work. Maybe even ask the original developers (when that's not you) if they could test it and see if they're happy with it.
03:32:55 <JohnTHaller> I'd like to make a couple small changes to the beta to enable custom icons and the app name (for backwards compatibility for now) and do a wider Beta 2 with an announcement on the homepage in the next several days. A couple weeks of that should give us enough testing.
03:33:22 <ChrisMorgan> That could also then achieve the developer, who now knows more, implementing more functionality which they've since thought of but not got to.
03:33:32 <JohnTHaller> True
03:34:19 <ChrisMorgan> I'm also wanting to put in compilation with a custom segment. So that's two things for that to do.
03:34:38 <JohnTHaller> Ah right. Yeah, that could be part of the same thingy.
03:34:49 <JohnTHaller> And by thingy, I mean Custom.nsh
03:35:05 <ChrisMorgan> There could be a few ways of implementing the compiling step.
03:35:06 <ChrisMorgan> yep
03:35:10 <JohnTHaller> You want to do defined bits for different sections of the instaler like we do with the installer?
03:35:24 <ChrisMorgan> (a) a wizard like the PAI one (fairly simple to adapt)
03:35:52 <JohnTHaller> I think an include file with a couple defines (both optional) for app icon (on or off and it'll compile with appicon.ico in the app) and app name as well as a custom macro or two.
03:35:57 <ChrisMorgan> (b) create a file in Other\Source of the package which defines a value and !include PAL
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03:36:32 <ChrisMorgan> (c) makensis /DPACKAGE=P:\PortableApps\AppNamePortable P:\PortableApps\PortableApps.comLauncher\Other\Source\PortableApps.comLauncher.nsi
03:36:53 <JohnTHaller> We can do the !include /NOFATAL on it, too and let people just compile themselves with NSIS Portable. Or include it in PA.c Installer and let it compile it for ya.
03:37:28 <ChrisMorgan> I'm thinking of /not/ copying over the PAL source but instead !including it from another main script or passing a variable in with /D (there's an equivalent in makensisw).
03:37:38 <JohnTHaller> ah ok
03:37:57 <JohnTHaller> Hang on a few. Doing an updated build for our designer
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03:39:11 <ChrisMorgan> As I see it the copying (with PAI as well) just isn't necessary - simulate a !define PACKAGE X:\PortableApps\AppNamePortable line with /DPACKAGE=X:\PortableApps\AppNamePortable, rather than copying to X:\PortableApps\AppNamePortable\Other\Source\PortableApps.comInstaller.nsi. Then you can (after loading the PAI nsh+lang files) !cd ${PACKAGE} and go from there.
03:40:43 <ChrisMorgan> I'll wait till you do your next release of PAI before trying implementing any things like that though.
03:41:01 <ChrisMorgan> I really do have quite a few (generally fairly minor) things I'd like to do with the PortableApps.com Installer.
03:41:29 <ChrisMorgan> Putting it in a repository would be useful (even if it was just for me and I merged in changes you made with releases afterwards)
03:43:39 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: should I sticky my l10n thread at http://portableapps.com/node/22997?
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03:56:31 <JohnTHaller> ChrisMorgan: The topic looks fine. Can't speak to the rest at the moment, wrapping up and exhausted.
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04:38:36 <JohnTHaller> alright, and amsn is out with all the happy fixes
04:42:01 <ChrisMorgan> Saw that :-)
04:46:24 <JohnTHaller> ... and bed. gnight man
04:47:40 <ChrisMorgan> Bye
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04:49:05 <sar3th> speaking of bed, it's time for me as well
04:56:15 <ChrisMorgan> Bye
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17:31:30 <ZachThibeau> good morning/afternoon/night whats up y'all
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19:50:22 <zwzsg> Trying to change my app to conform to the tree structure in http://portableapps.com/development/portableapps.com_format
19:50:27 <zwzsg> But I am confused
19:50:51 <zwzsg> Let's say my app is "Spring"
19:50:55 <zwzsg> Do I have to replace App by Spring, and if so, what do I replace AppName with, in that chart?
19:58:08 <zwzsg> Bah, nvm, I installed (o_O) BlenderPortable, and now it see: App stays App, but AppName get replaced by the actual application name.
20:00:49 <zwzsg> I decided to change my app name to: "Kernel Panic"
20:01:22 <zwzsg> Should AppName be "KernelPanic" "Kernel_Panic" "kernelpanic" "Kernel Panic" or "Kernel-Panic" or ...
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20:13:31 <zwzsg> When you say: "The ICO file is in Windows ICO format and contain the following 6 required formats", you're joking, right?
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20:14:09 <zwzsg> You're not going to excluse my app because I skipped the 48x48 format and the true color (since 256 colors was more enough), right?
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20:41:02 <zwzsg> Added a 48x48 anyway
21:03:53 <zwzsg> Can I have 5 numbers in the package version?
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21:09:59 <Simeon> hi all
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21:12:08 <MaienM> zwzsg: no, we are not joking about the formats required, your app will be "exclused" from official release if it does not conform to the specs, and while you are free to version stuff behind the scenes as you want, try to keep at most 3 version numbers as the version shown to the users
21:12:58 <MaienM> a version number such as 1.5.3.2.4 might make sense from a developer point of view, for whatever reason, but it will make tittle sense to an end user
21:15:04 <zwzsg> Oh well, I'll add "true colors" icons, even though my icon is basically a redwireframe filled with black.
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21:22:10 <Gizmokid2005> zwzsg: it's the format
21:22:21 <Gizmokid2005> to get released, you need to comply.
21:22:25 <Gizmokid2005> there's not bartering about it.
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21:32:36 <GizmoBot> SergentSiler is a PortableApps.com Menu Themer, his theme website is http://silerhost.site50.net
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21:36:08 <SergentSiler> oops, forgot to ghost lol
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22:07:32 <GizmoBot> ...
22:23:55 <zwzsg> Hey guys... hope it's not too taboo to ask, but, how does PortableApps.com make a profit?
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22:36:45 <Bensawsome> zwzsg they dont.
22:37:11 <Bensawsome> they get donated money, and use it to keep things like hosting up
22:37:55 <zwzsg> Ah.
22:46:43 <Gizmokid2005> zwzsg: PortableApps.com isn't in it for the money.
22:48:28 <zwzsg> Well, I saw they had a CEO, trademarked their mark, and an office in the Empire State Building, so I figured it was an actual company.
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22:48:59 <GizmoBot> ChrisMorgan is a PortableApps.com developer and moderator and works on the PortableApps.com Launcher (please test it!)
22:49:39 <Gizmokid2005> zwzsg: it more or less is, but right now, it operates mainly off donations to keep things going.
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22:55:07 <ChrisMorgan> zwzsg: AppName would be KernelPanic. As for appicon.ico, there's not really any reason why it can't be different from an icon in your base package in App\Spring.
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22:58:11 <zwzsg> I changed my icon to conform exactly to the spec anyway. I just felt weird duplicating my 256 color to true color format.
22:58:28 <zwzsg> Anyway, icon was the easy part...
22:58:30 <ChrisMorgan> I've done it too with one or two of my apps.
22:58:45 <ChrisMorgan> What's the hard part?
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22:59:02 <zwzsg> Separating the files that change to those that don't.
22:59:13 <ChrisMorgan> Data.
22:59:29 <ChrisMorgan> So, is this your application which you wrote or are you just writing a wrapper?
22:59:32 <zwzsg> Having the binary in one folder, and the settings in another. When the program insist on creating some file next to itself.
22:59:44 <zwzsg> Err, it's complicated.
23:00:27 <zwzsg> I didn't make the application.
23:00:47 <zwzsg> But then it's an open source one with devs I can talk to.
23:01:53 <ChrisMorgan> Could you give me a link to the application?
23:02:06 <zwzsg> Spring is an open source RTS. But Spring itself is just the engine, and engine without data is useless.
23:02:38 <zwzsg> I didn't make it either, but I ended up being the maintainer of Kernel Panic, a game powered by the Spring engine.
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23:02:56 <zwzsg> Or you could say a mod of Spring. The disctinction is blurry anyway.
23:03:05 <zwzsg> http://springrts.com & http://www.moddb.com/games/kernel-panic
23:03:50 <ChrisMorgan> zwzsg: the way I like to have programs portable is an environment variable which is detected and if detected overrides the settings directory
23:04:16 <zwzsg> Because KP is small, and doesn't contain stolen material, it would make a good PortableApp
23:04:22 <ChrisMorgan> When making Inkscape Portable that's the way I did it - I submitted a patch which was integrated so that it could use INKSCAPE_PORTABLE_PROFILE_DIR instead of APPDATA
23:04:40 <zwzsg> Well, they have that file, springsetting.cfg, that contains a file that point to SpringData
23:04:57 <ChrisMorgan> Ah.
23:04:59 <zwzsg> *Well, they have that file, springsetting.cfg, that contains a field that point to SpringData
23:05:02 <ChrisMorgan> That's fairly straightforward then.
23:05:15 <ChrisMorgan> So what is it, just a single value in it or some format?
23:05:20 <zwzsg> Except, the file springsetting.cfg itself contains every other setting.
23:05:32 <zwzsg> So, springsettings.cfg itself must be in /Data/
23:05:33 <ChrisMorgan> Oh. Why/how?
23:05:50 <ChrisMorgan> But if it's just that one file which would need moving, that's fairly straightforward.
23:05:57 <zwzsg> But it's okay! As they have that commandline option -config to point to the springsetting.cfg
23:06:07 <ChrisMorgan> OK, even simpler.
23:06:37 <zwzsg> Except, Spring.exe is one thing, but then, you have SpringSettings.exe, to modify the settings, and SpringLobby.exe, to find multiplayer oppoenent.
23:07:03 <ChrisMorgan> So you need more than one launcher?
23:07:23 <zwzsg> Plus my own Kernel_Panic_Launcher.exe to create a skirmish game without the confusion of running a full blown client.
23:07:36 <zwzsg> Well, I planned to add two buttons to my Kernel_Panic_Launcher
23:07:41 <ChrisMorgan> I would recommend that you use the PortableApps.com Launcher (Beta, http://portableapps.com/node/22987). Download the Application Template from there and refer to the manual (available online or in the main PAL package) for the launcher INI file format.
23:07:56 <ChrisMorgan> You can have more than one launcher with that, and it's fairly simple to work with.
23:08:17 <zwzsg> But I have to check that all the exe respect the same /Data/ dir. And that would be the hard part.
23:08:33 <ChrisMorgan> Do they all accept the command line argument?
23:09:06 <zwzsg> I don't know. I'll have to test, see if there are other ways, prod dev for solution, ...
23:09:55 <ChrisMorgan> If not you can move the springsetting.cfg file as necessary with a FilesMove value (settings\springsetting.cfg=App\Spring)
23:12:00 <zwzsg> Hmm, didn't see FileMoves in http://portableapps.com/development/portableapps.com_format
23:12:13 <zwzsg> But good to know there will be a plan B.
23:12:25 <ChrisMorgan> zwzsg, that's in the PortableApps.com Launcher which I referred to
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23:28:55 <ChrisMorgan> Hello, pa_7192! Can we help you with anything?
23:36:46 <pa_7192> hi, i was wondering if i can install an app over the portableapp platform?
23:37:24 <ChrisMorgan> pa_7192, if you install the Platform to the default directory then you'll be able to install an app to the default directory it chooses fine.
23:37:36 <pa_7192> i mean it would appear but i got it from a different site not on portableapps.com
23:37:43 <ChrisMorgan> Ah
23:37:52 <ChrisMorgan> .def addingapps
23:37:52 <GizmoBot> addingapps is about adding applications to the PortableApps.com Menu; read http://portableapps.com/support/portable_apps_suite#addingapps for details.
23:37:59 <ChrisMorgan> Look just below that, adding other apps
23:38:30 <pa_7192> ok... thanks! your were a big help! :)
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23:38:40 <ChrisMorgan> You're welcome :-)
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23:39:11 <GizmoBot> ZachThibeau is awsome and is currently working on a super cool media player called musicplay3000 aka mp3k
23:40:33 <ChrisMorgan> French (now completed) and Dutch are now in the PortableApps.com Launcher mix :-)
23:42:25 <ChrisMorgan> And (due to slight carelessness on my part in not pulling and updating before committing the langauge files) I got experience in merging with hg.
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