IRC Log from 2010-04-17
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01:35:38 <vf2nsr> Wow 2 1/2 hours andd not a peep here
01:53:33 <ChrisMorgan> Why did you spoil it?
01:54:41 <vf2nsr> Oops sorry ;)
01:54:57 <vf2nsr> Hey at least I am not bothering you tonight
01:56:08 <vf2nsr> Are the planned outages at sourceforge this weekend going to impact PA.com at all?
01:57:38 <ZachThibeau> possibly, I plan to take the time and work on another project while I'm waiting for sf to get back on it's feet until then
01:58:21 <vf2nsr> sounds like a useful advantage to there update time lol
01:58:23 <ZachThibeau> a guy named byuu who codes bsnes emulator has released a library called libsnes that I'm going to be playing with, so far he has come up with several examples of using it from python to c#
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01:59:21 <ZachThibeau> figure I try something a using it since emulation programming (even with a library) is new territory for me
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02:00:19 <GizmoBot> SergentSiler is a PortableApps.com Menu Themer, his theme website is http://silerhost.site50.net
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02:32:34 <Scriptdaemon> ChrisMorgan: Say I want to set a Cvar via the command line (+set fs_homepath %PAL:DataDir%\Tremulous). I have quotes around the data directory path, but should I put single quotes around the whole thing?
02:33:30 <Scriptdaemon> Nvm, doesn't work anyway.
02:33:30 <Scriptdaemon> :(
02:34:39 <vf2nsr> Evening Scriptdaemon
02:34:49 <Scriptdaemon> Hello vf2nsr.
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03:00:51 <Bloodsong> ...
03:05:33 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon: "+ set fs_homepath %PAL:DataDir%\Termulous"? What format is that?
03:07:18 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon: if that was "set fs_homepath=%PAL:DataDir%\Tremulous" then that would be just [Environment]:fs_homepath=%PAL:DataDir%\Tremulous, no need for quotes.
03:09:34 <Scriptdaemon> ChrisMorgan: http://tremmapping.pbworks.com/Console-Commands
03:10:57 <ChrisMorgan> Oh yeah, it is command line...
03:12:54 <ChrisMorgan> You only need to put in quotes if you have (a) leading spaces, (b) trailing spaces or (c) single/double quotes at the start and end (say for example "%PAL:DataDir%" "%PAL:AppDir%" would need quoting (with single quotes so it looks right, double would work but would be confusing) otherwise it would end up as %PAL:DataDir%" "%PAL:AppDir%)
03:14:03 <Scriptdaemon> So, leave it like +set fs_homepath %PAL:DataDir%\Tremulous?
03:14:23 <Scriptdaemon> Oh, nvm. Misread that.
03:14:45 <ChrisMorgan> Maybe. I don't know how it works, whether it needs quotes in a string with spaces or not.
03:18:04 <Scriptdaemon> I've tried every combination of quotes I can think of... hmm...
03:20:33 <ChrisMorgan> One way of testing such things is through the command line - e.g. TremulousPortable.exe +set fs_homepath C:\Documents and Settings\Kenny Williams\Desktop\TremulousPortable\Data\Tremulous
03:21:13 <ChrisMorgan> Then you don't need to worry about the quirks of quotation mark handling in INI parsing.
03:21:23 <Scriptdaemon> 7, not XP. =P
03:21:28 <Scriptdaemon> But yeah, checking.
03:21:36 <ChrisMorgan> OK, s/Documents and Settings/Users/
03:25:46 <Scriptdaemon> How odd. Checking it in the console, it says C:\Users\Kenny even with double quotes around the path...
03:25:53 <Scriptdaemon> Trying single quotes.
03:26:49 <ChrisMorgan> Methinks it would be a good thing for all of our developers to develop in paths with spaces so that they find these sorts of common problems.
03:26:58 <Scriptdaemon> Still no.
03:27:24 <ChrisMorgan> It's possible that it just isn't possible. Unlikely but not impossible.
03:27:40 <Scriptdaemon> Off to #tremulous.
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03:38:06 <Scriptdaemon> Yeah, they're no help.
03:38:55 <Scriptdaemon> Hmm, I wonder if I can just do it with a ..
03:42:41 <Scriptdaemon> I'll just have to move it manually.
03:42:42 <Scriptdaemon> :(
03:44:15 <ChrisMorgan> Is the "My Games" directory %DOCUMENTS%\My Games on 7 (English) or is it %USERPROFILE%\Games?
03:45:13 <Scriptdaemon> My Games isn't a special folder, so it doesn't go by the same rules as the others regarding the "My " thing.
03:45:58 * Bloodsong is back
03:46:02 <Bloodsong> Oh hey Script listen up.
03:46:07 <Bloodsong> You here?
03:46:11 <Scriptdaemon> Yes.
03:46:22 <Bloodsong> Still confused about your paths in Win7?
03:46:34 <vf2nsr> if anyon ehas any time can they take a look at this regshot and let me know if there is any thin I need to really be concerned bout? http://pastebin.com/UZdVF4aY
03:47:06 <Scriptdaemon> Not so much confused, rather frustrated that quotes don't seem to work in the command line with what I want to do.
03:48:12 <Bloodsong> A lot of the Windows XP/vista paths have been turned into locked/hidden Sym-Links
03:48:17 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon: but what I'm asking is where is it?
03:49:14 <Bloodsong> So if you were coding to Win7 you'd be able to do it with the actual path... Or should work in a command prompt that has been right clicked and run as administrator
03:49:17 <Scriptdaemon> ChrisMorgan, you're referring to the one app of mine that uses it, right? Either waym it was the former.
03:49:27 <ChrisMorgan> Good.
03:49:30 <Bloodsong> (Even if you're logged on as Administrator, you still have to "run as administrator" several things in win 7)
03:50:06 <Scriptdaemon> I don't want to have to force the user to run Tremulous in admin.
03:50:11 <ChrisMorgan> Bloodsong: unless you have UAC turned off
03:50:44 <Bloodsong> C.M. from everything I've seen, there are still several situations where you'd better use "run as administrator"
03:51:58 <ChrisMorgan> vf2nsr: HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\gdk-pixbuf-csource.exe\ and HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uninstall\TouchMeGames are things which shouldn't be there but I'm imagining they're due to the installer.
03:52:14 <ChrisMorgan> Bloodsong: such as?
03:52:42 <Scriptdaemon> DirectoriesMove works, so that'll just have to do.
03:52:51 <vf2nsr> OK CrhisMorgan let me toy with a few things appreciate the help
03:52:54 <Scriptdaemon> Until/unless I can figure it out later.
03:52:58 <Bloodsong> Well UAC is designed to pop up when you want to perform certain activities that in a secured environment you would only want the administrator to do.
03:53:18 <Bloodsong> However, for the purpose of file system access etc. If you need to have the permissions of another user or user group, you still need to run as.
03:53:49 <Scriptdaemon> That really doesn't seem like it applies to my situation.
03:54:17 <Bloodsong> I know it doesn't seem like it, but if you're trying to reference some of those symlinks like "Documents and Settings" you may well find it does.
03:54:56 <Scriptdaemon> Either way, running Tremulous with admin isn't viable.
03:55:08 <ChrisMorgan> Quite so. There's no reason I can think of why you'd need RunAsAdmin for file system access unless it depends on something in %WINDIR% (but putting things elsewhere in the PATH should almost always do)
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03:56:29 <Scriptdaemon> I wish Windows was like Linux in that spaces in directories is quite frowned upon.
03:56:43 <Scriptdaemon> So this problem wouldn't exist.
03:57:04 <ChrisMorgan> Frowned upon but not stopped or anything.
03:57:33 <Scriptdaemon> I've never had to worry about it. And if it comes up, I'd just blame the user. :D
03:57:54 <ChrisMorgan> The symlinks are a real nuisance in my opinion. Most things still don't work with them. For example try CDing into C:\Documents and Settings...
03:58:41 <Scriptdaemon> How does that not work? I'm pretty sure I've done it with no trouble. Or are you referring to the fact you have to begin it with a " ?
03:59:21 <Scriptdaemon> Or maybe I'm thinking of doing it directory by directory rather than the whole path at once.
04:01:15 <ChrisMorgan> In my experience on several Vista machines they just don't behave like normal directories.
04:04:27 * Bloodsong can CD into the symlinks
04:04:39 <Bloodsong> I've changes the CACLs on a bunch of my Symlinks >.>
04:09:50 <ChrisMorgan> ACLs. cacls is the command line executable - Change ACLs
04:10:48 <ChrisMorgan> Where ACL stands for Access Control List
04:16:02 <Scriptdaemon> ChrisMorgan, I've an idea. I haven't tested short names yet, but if they do would it be possible to implement env vars that use those?
04:16:13 <Scriptdaemon> DOCU~1 or whatever.
04:16:25 <ChrisMorgan> That would *definitely* be a Bad Way of Doing It.
04:16:38 <ChrisMorgan> And it would not necessarily work anyway.
04:16:44 <Scriptdaemon> K.
04:17:23 <ChrisMorgan> Using the old 8.3 file names should be avoided. Support for them is in 3rd party applications less likely. Especially when it's a port of an application from a different platform.
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04:32:03 <Scriptdaemon> lol.
04:32:16 <Scriptdaemon> Apparently a small flame war has sprung from my question.
04:38:42 <ChrisMorgan> ?
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04:41:25 <Scriptdaemon> They started arguing about what would work and what wouldn't, then it got a bit off topic. All good now.
04:41:29 <JohnTHaller> quick hola before sleep
04:41:30 <JohnTHaller> how goes it
04:41:49 <Scriptdaemon> I hate Windows and spaces in directories.
04:41:50 <Scriptdaemon> You?
04:46:07 <ChrisMorgan> I'm fine... and getting on with another Uni assignment.
04:47:21 <Scriptdaemon> On SF, am I allowed to host all my PA.c apps under one app?
04:48:15 <Scriptdaemon> Or name, whatever you want to call it.
04:52:15 <JohnTHaller> ah fun
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04:53:18 * ChrisMorgan just made a flowchart with Dia to show how the custom language variable is calculated
04:53:47 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: you should go to sleep :P
04:54:25 <JohnTHaller> haha nice
04:54:49 <ChrisMorgan> I put a text form of it into the manual, I think I may put this version in too. It might be helpful.
04:55:04 <JohnTHaller> Nice
04:55:11 <Scriptdaemon> I think so.
04:55:28 <JohnTHaller> I took part of the day off after working up some stuff for a proposal for a prospect.
04:55:45 <ChrisMorgan> What sort of prospect?
04:55:47 <JohnTHaller> Then I found some fun Win7 stuff to add on to the menu.
04:55:51 <JohnTHaller> Another hardware partner
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04:57:20 <ChrisMorgan> http://portableapps.chrismorgan.info/pix/languages-custom.png (not sure quite why that P at the bottom is out of place)
04:57:34 <ChrisMorgan> And a few other Yesses as well.
04:58:03 <JohnTHaller> yay flowcharts
04:58:34 <JohnTHaller> I figured out how to add a jumplist and thumbnail buttons on Win7
04:58:54 <ChrisMorgan> I thought you said no more feature creep for 2.0?
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04:59:58 <JohnTHaller> I know. Just stumbled on it and it got me thinking. I may leave it off of 2.0. We'll see how it unfolds. I figure it's about 30 minutes of development time.
05:00:43 <ChrisMorgan> Ha ha. You really should read "Rapid Development". :P
05:00:54 <ChrisMorgan> Got a proper rendering of that flowchart now.
05:01:13 <Scriptdaemon> As opposed to the thirty years it's taking to do everything else? >.>
05:01:15 <Scriptdaemon> I kid.
05:01:34 <JohnTHaller> I had to add another feature for another demo
05:01:59 <JohnTHaller> Gotta finish that up tomorrow. Being demoes in Asia on Monday by one of the top 5 flash drive vendors internally.
05:02:17 <Scriptdaemon> Nice.
05:02:54 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon: what do you reckon of that flowchart (refresh it if you've still got the broken-characters version)? Everything look correct on it?
05:03:26 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: what was the feature you "had to add"?
05:04:23 <JohnTHaller> some OEM theming bits
05:04:30 <Scriptdaemon> I like it. Pretty straight-forward, too. Although, having looked at this I don't understand why using Default= made language switching not work in OpenTTD.
05:04:39 <JohnTHaller> basically added a few custom entries to the OEM icon that can show up on the right
05:05:22 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon: try following the path through. You'll see what was different.
05:05:41 * ChrisMorgan wishes he didn't have any Uni work to do and could make a sample replacement Django website for PortableApps.com just to show how much better it would/could be.
05:08:14 <Scriptdaemon> ChrisMorgan, but shouldn't it have gone th other way at the first "Is value defined?" and not touched Default= at all?
05:08:18 <Scriptdaemon> the*
05:09:54 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon: you get to the second "Is value defined?" and then head off in different directions: it uses Default if it's set or Base if it's not.
05:12:01 <ChrisMorgan> Just updated it again as I realised I was missing one "Yes" in a decision.
05:15:24 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon: anyway, when you had it set to GREEK, it looked up [LanguageStrings]:GREEK, which was not set.
05:16:18 <Scriptdaemon> Ah, now I see.
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05:17:19 <JohnTHaller> gnigh all
05:17:32 <ChrisMorgan> Goodnight JohnTHaller.
05:17:35 <Scriptdaemon> Night.
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05:33:06 <gringoloco> hello there
05:35:32 <vf2nsr> hello ther too
05:35:39 <vf2nsr> *there
05:35:54 <ChrisMorgan> Hey gringoloco
05:36:27 <gringoloco> I thought I was going mad yesterday, really started to doubt myself
05:36:34 <vf2nsr> ChrisMorgan might want to take a look? http://portableapps.com/node/23293#new
05:38:08 <ChrisMorgan> vf2nsr: indeed, I was just dealing with those.
05:38:44 <vf2nsr> ChrisMorgan sorry was not sure if you were aware I shut my mouth and go back to MiniGW
05:39:18 <ChrisMorgan> If redesigning the website one thing I would add would be next to the "edit | reply | delete" links... "spam user" which would delete all posts by the user and block them. That would make this sort of thing easy to cope with.
05:39:28 <ChrisMorgan> redesigning/redeveloping.
05:40:09 <vf2nsr> yup he/she fast
05:42:12 <ChrisMorgan> "it".
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05:48:04 <vf2nsr> lol
05:48:33 <vf2nsr> Tell me ChrisMorgan why is everything I endeavor to work on so dang coompleex lol
05:48:50 <ChrisMorgan> You're trying the wrong things.
05:49:23 <vf2nsr> so what should I stick to the basics?
05:49:40 <vf2nsr> like now trying to compile linux source code to win32
05:49:51 <Scriptdaemon> Please be kidding.
05:49:52 <vf2nsr> just fopr giggles
05:50:17 <ChrisMorgan> Try learning Django and do some web development :D
05:50:22 <vf2nsr> ok I admit I crazy
05:50:53 <ChrisMorgan> Django is good. I like Django :-)
05:50:57 <vf2nsr> Django only Django I new was Django Reibnhart (sp)
05:53:16 <vf2nsr> So you never answered me should I sit back and do nothing let programmers do all the work and just reap theor rewards?
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06:02:02 <vf2nsr> oh well I guess I leave you programmers alone for a while
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06:07:43 <Scriptdaemon> He really ought to not take such offense to criticism.
06:08:44 <ChrisMorgan> No. The first few packages I did tended to have quite a few issues. (My first one of all, my first release of BPBible Portable, had the debug messages left in it...)
06:09:03 <ChrisMorgan> I was told at the time that I would do it again. I don't think I have yet.
06:09:34 <ChrisMorgan> And the way our packages work, it's quite common and reasonable for there to be half a dozen, or even more problems.
06:13:41 <gringoloco> Can I get a PAL update at 13.00 UTC ?
06:14:10 <Scriptdaemon> He'll just cool off and try again. He did that when I helped him with RedNotebook Portable, I was just being straight-forward.
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06:15:27 <Scriptdaemon> I'm surprise nobody has posted yet about being unable to download anything.
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06:16:07 <Scriptdaemon> Wb vf2nsr.
06:16:10 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon: unable to download what anything?
06:16:13 <ChrisMorgan> gringoloco: ?
06:16:18 <Scriptdaemon> SF is in maintenance.
06:16:24 <Scriptdaemon> For eight hours.
06:16:32 <ChrisMorgan> No downloads available at all?
06:16:33 <gringoloco> You didn't know !
06:16:45 <ChrisMorgan> No. I don't tend to do much with SourceForge.
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06:16:52 <Scriptdaemon> It gives you an error with that little robot.
06:16:58 <ChrisMorgan> gringoloco: what do you mean about PAL update at 13.00 UTC?
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06:17:07 <Scriptdaemon> http://downloads.sourceforge.net/portableapps/gVimPortable_7.2.paf.exe?download
06:17:30 <Scriptdaemon> That's when maintenance is over, but PAL isn't on SF is it?
06:17:43 <gringoloco> http://portableapps.hg.sourceforge.net/hgweb/portableapps/launcher/
06:17:49 <Scriptdaemon> Oh yeah, duh.
06:18:02 <gringoloco> I assumed you where aware of this !
06:18:21 <Scriptdaemon> You can get $10 off at THinkgeek though!
06:18:28 <Scriptdaemon> Thinkgeek*
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06:20:50 <gringoloco> ChrisMorgan: Quote: I've replaced Abort with Quit right through the segments
06:21:01 <ChrisMorgan> That's what I did.
06:21:10 <gringoloco> Are you sure this does fix the problem
06:21:18 <ChrisMorgan> You'll have to try it.
06:21:23 <gringoloco> I can't
06:21:30 <Scriptdaemon> When SF is back up.
06:21:35 <ChrisMorgan> I /think/ it should fix it. But I also think that I need to reconsider slightly the Unload stuff. I think it's OK.
06:21:48 <ChrisMorgan> Oh, you're quoting me... I thought you were saying that's what you'd done.
06:22:24 <gringoloco> What about: ${If} $Status != running in PortableApps.comLauncher.nsi
06:22:35 <ChrisMorgan> gringoloco: if it quits it won't get to there.
06:22:59 <gringoloco> But it should do a secondary launch !
06:23:17 <ChrisMorgan> Not if it's aborting.
06:23:20 <ChrisMorgan> But I need to think about that.
06:24:14 <ChrisMorgan> To replace Abort with Quit in a given directory: vim `grep -l Abort *`, then inside vim, qq:%s/Abort/Quit/g<Enter>:wn<Enter>q9@q:q<Enter> all done :D
06:24:23 <gringoloco> When ever there is a sec.launch it looks at the status. The status is running and skips all secondary hooks and even execute, just to unload !?!?
06:25:32 <ChrisMorgan> I think I need to think about it.
06:30:36 <gringoloco> I did get so confused cause appently this dates back to beta 2
06:32:20 <gringoloco> So I really started to doubt, that it must be something on my end (I'm using my girlfriends PC this weeks)
06:32:56 <Scriptdaemon> If it's a problem you're having, it's likely a problem someone else is having/will have.
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06:33:35 <ChrisMorgan> It would indeed be back to Beta 2 when I put in the recovery options.
06:34:06 <ChrisMorgan> gringoloco: I think that it should be a one line fix.
06:34:14 <ChrisMorgan> Where we currently have ${If} $Status != running
06:34:32 <ChrisMorgan> Add in ${OrIf} $SecondaryLaunch == true
06:35:01 <gringoloco> So what was your intension with ${If} $Status != running ?
06:35:35 <ChrisMorgan> It's to do with recovery - as it says in the comment there, power failure, disk removal etc.
06:37:02 <gringoloco> I'll give it go now !
06:37:47 <ChrisMorgan> So secondary launches just never happened, I suppose?
06:39:03 <ChrisMorgan> Thanks. I'm glad I have you lot for testers. Otherwise the project would be sunk. And I do hope that you don't get discouraged by these at times fairly major bugs. They're getting steadily fewer, the product is becoming more and more stable.
06:39:09 <gringoloco> They did happen, on a second 'SecondaryLaunch', after runtime.ini & launcher.ini were deleted !
06:39:30 <ChrisMorgan> So second wouldn't work but then third would.
06:40:05 <gringoloco> Don't worry, I did learn a lot of your coding as well.
06:40:14 <ChrisMorgan> And the reason why this one happened was because of new functionality that you just wouldn't try adding in to individual launchers, whereas when it's a global thing it's quite reasonable to add it.
06:40:20 <ChrisMorgan> Good, I'm glad :-)
06:40:21 <gringoloco> Third would, yes
06:41:03 <Scriptdaemon> If you didn't hav me, RunAsAdmin would still be unusable. :D
06:41:07 <gringoloco> I don't get : And the reason why this one happened was because of new functionality that you just wouldn't try adding in to individual launchers, whereas when it's a global thing it's quite reasonable to add it.
06:41:19 <gringoloco> Do not understand ?
06:43:14 <ChrisMorgan> It'd be too much work to do for each launcher individually with the general line-by-line execution structure we've had, whereas when you've modularised it all into init, pre, post, unload chunks it's fairly straightforward to add.
06:43:32 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon: what do you reckon you would have done without PAL? Tried to work out the UAC plug-in so you could have a friendly UI or used RequestExecutionLevel admin?
06:44:08 <Scriptdaemon> I would have said "Don't use this if you don't have admin."
06:44:09 <Scriptdaemon> :D
06:44:17 <ChrisMorgan> That would /not/ be a good idea.
06:44:49 <Scriptdaemon> But before PAL, I didn't see admin apps becoming official for some time anyway. By then I imagine I'd have researched it.
06:45:15 <ChrisMorgan> I am really glad that there are at least a few of you who did take up on it quickly. You've helped an enormous amount with testing :-)
06:45:50 <ChrisMorgan> "RequestExecutionLevel admin" is a much simpler way of doing it. But it's not quite as friendly and it doesn't allow for the "try" situation.
06:45:50 <Scriptdaemon> :)
06:46:27 <Scriptdaemon> That's probably the one I would have eventually come across then.
06:46:56 <Scriptdaemon> If something does just what you need and is simple, why look for a more complicated option?
06:47:52 <Scriptdaemon> Well, Tremulous Portable should be good for a first DT. Probably going to test it out a bit more tomorrow before uploading it though.
06:48:04 <gringoloco> Ok, launching second instance now, just still the .ini's get deleted.... in Core unload
06:49:20 <ChrisMorgan> Try to make a package as perfect as you can with its first release. Often you won't be able to find all issues yourself but you can make a good start on it.
06:49:36 <gringoloco> BTW: I did not replace any abort with quit , jet ! No gvim & not used to work with it !
06:49:40 <ChrisMorgan> gringoloco: ah yes, I suppose they would.
06:49:57 <ChrisMorgan> This thing made me rethink it and I think the switching to Quit wasn't necessary.
06:50:50 <gringoloco> What was your intension with: ${AndIf} $0 != $PLUGINSDIR and after to delete dir folder $0
06:51:06 <gringoloco> $0 = the pluginsdir of the first instance !
06:51:36 <gringoloco> Core unload, we are talking
06:51:36 <ChrisMorgan> The problem is that the difference between Abort and Quit isn't quite spelled out perfectly. I believe for us once you're running from in a section the two will be completely synonymous (if there was a GUI they would be different, quit would kill it, abort would go to the "installation failed" step.)
06:51:41 <Scriptdaemon> ChrisMorgan, of course. As far as I know everything is set to generate in %APPDATA% by default, and since the cvar thing was a no-go I'm just using DirectoriesMove. I have that, the program exe and SingleAppInstance=true. There's so little that I feel I might be forgetting something.
06:52:03 <Scriptdaemon> No language files, so no language switching.
06:52:18 <ChrisMorgan> gringoloco: in case of power failure you'll get a different $PLUGINSDIR. That makes sure that it gets cleaned up.
06:52:27 <ChrisMorgan> The previous one that is from just before the power failure.
06:53:14 <gringoloco> Some how we need another ${OrIf} $SecondaryLaunch == true
06:53:24 <gringoloco> or rather !=
06:53:24 <ChrisMorgan> Fortunately I can still commit to the hg repository even though SourceForge is down. I may not be able to push but I can commit locally and then push when they're back up.
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06:53:43 <pa_5768> hello
06:54:15 <gringoloco> hello pa_5768, can we help with something ?
06:54:47 <pa_5768> can someone help me please i have mozilla thunderbird on my flash disk and when i pluged it in this morning and clicked on the tab it says i need to create a new email account
06:55:12 <pa_5768> i had an old account with lots of mail in have i lost it all ?
06:55:50 <ChrisMorgan> pa_5768: did you pull it out without going through the "safe removal" step?
06:55:54 <gringoloco> Personaly, I do not have experience with Thunderbird ! (Can somebody else give an answer)
06:56:29 <pa_5768> nope the application was not running when i remobved it
06:56:44 <ChrisMorgan> pa_5768: but did you go through the "safe removal" step every time?
06:56:50 <pa_5768> no
06:56:56 <ChrisMorgan> You *always* should.
06:57:14 <pa_5768> oh dear
06:57:28 <pa_5768> so have i lost all my mail
06:57:33 <ChrisMorgan> It /may/ be that you've lost all your email irretrievably. Once you've closed the Thunderbird window it can still be up to a minute or so on slow disks before it's actually finished writing and closed.
06:57:41 <ChrisMorgan> Open up the folder in Explorer.
06:57:52 <pa_5768> ok what am i looking for
06:58:08 <ChrisMorgan> Then take a look in the Data directory - the full path will be X:\PortableApps\ThunderbirdPortable\Data by default.
06:58:44 <pa_5768> ok i have that
06:58:56 <ChrisMorgan> What folders are there there?
06:59:08 <pa_5768> app, data, other and the executable file
06:59:28 <ChrisMorgan> What's inside the Data folder?
06:59:48 <ChrisMorgan> I think it's something like settings, profile and mail folders. Mail may be inside the profile folder.
07:00:10 <pa_5768> a few folders, gpg, plugins,[rofile, registry, settings
07:00:32 <pa_5768> i see mail
07:00:57 <pa_5768> all my different pop accounts are there
07:01:05 <pa_5768> how would i access it
07:02:34 <ChrisMorgan> I'm not entirely sure about that step.
07:02:38 <ChrisMorgan> For starters, back it up.
07:02:48 <pa_5768> iv done that
07:02:49 <ChrisMorgan> That way you've got the best chance of getting it back.
07:02:51 <ChrisMorgan> Good.
07:03:03 <ChrisMorgan> Then try recreating the account - in some cases the mail will then reappear.
07:03:14 <pa_5768> ill try that now
07:03:44 <gringoloco> ChrisMorgan: I done the following to Core unload http://pastebin.com/HZeqAyeq
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07:04:08 <gringoloco> And it fixed my problem, let me know if you agree with it ?
07:04:13 <ChrisMorgan> gringoloco: that is precisely what I did.
07:04:16 <ChrisMorgan> Down to the character.
07:05:07 <gringoloco> Need to do some extensive testing thought ! (but girlfriend is going a bit mad on me)
07:06:42 <Scriptdaemon> I thought there was a ${If} $Status != running in there? Or is that a different segment? (just going off what you were talking about)
07:07:20 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon: as a matter of fact it's now ${If} $R9 != running in my locally committed version... :P
07:07:38 <gringoloco> I know PAL gets pretty complicated, done my head in yesterday, as I wasn't sure what chris's intensions were on each line !
07:07:55 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon: That one I supplemented with ${OrIf} $SecondaryLaunch == true
07:08:09 <Scriptdaemon> Well beside that, that whole line seems to be missing from his implementation?
07:08:10 <ChrisMorgan> gringoloco: in general I think if you think about it long enough you'll work it out.
07:08:45 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon: the status running thing is in PortableApps.comLauncher.nsi, the bit we're talking about now is Core->Unload
07:08:54 <Scriptdaemon> K.
07:09:44 <gringoloco> Long enough.....hmm....It's a bit like reinventing the wheel...as I didn't write it myself !
07:10:05 <gringoloco> Interesting never the less
07:10:24 <Scriptdaemon> Well, I'm going to bed now. Not much more I can do now with SF being down anyway.
07:10:26 <ChrisMorgan> The problem is I find it hard to comment it in most places as to me it tends to be completely obvious. I think I need more practice commenting code.
07:10:26 <Scriptdaemon> Night.
07:10:29 <ChrisMorgan> Bye
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07:12:00 <gringoloco> I expect it really wouldn't make that much difference
07:12:38 <gringoloco> It just takes time understanding somebody else his script.
07:13:30 <ChrisMorgan> Some of the concepts in it are more complex than the normal old-style launcher concepts, because it's designed to cope with everything.
07:13:31 <gringoloco> You'll end up with more comments then actual instructions...
07:14:11 <pa_5768> thanks for the advice ill try it now
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07:14:25 <gringoloco> A few days ago I read, you were getting worried about the speed of PAL ?
07:15:05 <gringoloco> It's not all that bad though, I recon most important is the speed on exiting
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07:16:25 <ChrisMorgan> I'm not worried about the speed at all, merely considering a reorientation of process; working out what to do at compile time only once rather than each time, at runtime.
07:16:39 <ChrisMorgan> It would make it possibly more stable, and produce smaller and faster executables.
07:17:03 <gringoloco> I was having some real issues with exiting the old style launchers, I should do some additional testing on PAL 's exiting
07:20:58 <ChrisMorgan> H'm, two spammers in one afternoon.
07:21:24 <gringoloco> It would mean a real make over, and possible additional bugs !
07:22:58 <ChrisMorgan> Quite so. Chunks of code would remain the same but the overall structure would be with using !define variables all over the place instead of Var variables, !if instead of ${If}, etc.
07:23:21 <gringoloco> Scary....
07:23:24 <ChrisMorgan> I think I'd go so far as to say probable additional bugs.
07:24:05 <ChrisMorgan> Currently I think more than half the lines start with "${"; this would make lines starting with ! far more common.
07:24:32 <ChrisMorgan> Now I think I really should continue with this FIT1029 assignment.
07:25:15 <gringoloco> ok, university you mean ? Don't let me keep you of your study !
07:25:20 <ChrisMorgan> Yep :D
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09:35:29 <GizmoBot> ChrisMorgan is a PortableApps.com developer and moderator and works on the PortableApps.com Launcher (please test it!)
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09:44:12 <pa_0337> Hi I am unable to download applications
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15:57:58 <Simeon> hi all (just to say something :))
16:02:05 * Mir does a barrel roll out of bed
16:12:08 <gringoloco> Hi simon, what's happening ?
16:12:54 <gringoloco> Simeon (sorry)
16:14:53 <Simeon> busy
16:17:10 <Simeon> not really here like everyone else :)
16:19:29 <gringoloco> Have to go for diner, I'll be back....
16:21:21 <Mir> dinner?
16:21:25 <Mir> :|
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16:44:10 <rcmaehl> Can someone help me with my science?
16:45:10 <gluxon> rcmaehl: -ot
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17:13:24 <Simeon> Did you get your Science fixed?
17:13:49 <rcmaehl> yeah
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17:13:52 <rcmaehl> also
17:14:47 <rcmaehl> I found out that you can use the drupal contact form to text message people (from the present list) and when you reply it goes to the senders email inbox, portableapps could use this for another way to give support
17:15:09 <Simeon> definitively
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20:34:54 <Fisher4Christ> Does portable apps have a toll on a Flash drives life? I know a Flash drive has a lifespan and erasing and rewriting of data helps detemine a fd life. But does portable apps have a negative effect on fd's too?
20:35:48 <Gizmokid2005> Fisher4Christ: depends on it's use
20:36:05 <Gizmokid2005> the more you use one, the faster you'll kill it.
20:36:36 <Gizmokid2005> I went through 2 chipsets on the same model flash drive within 6 months of each other, but that's where I ran most of my apps, 24/7.\
20:37:03 <Fisher4Christ> Oh okay yeah I wasn't sure if the apps would always being adding and removing temp files that would contribute as well
20:37:10 <Fisher4Christ> Thanx Gizmo
20:37:37 <Gizmokid2005> you're welcome Fisher4Christ
20:37:41 <Gizmokid2005> it just depends on what app and how you use it.
20:37:48 <Gizmokid2005> certain apps will be worse than others
20:38:03 <Fisher4Christ> Only one I really have decided to use is Firefox
20:38:28 <Gizmokid2005> Firefox can be pretty I/O heavy, but it takes a lot of I/O to kill decent quality flash drives.
20:39:03 <Fisher4Christ> Thanx a million I hope you have a great day and you helped a lot
20:39:21 <Gizmokid2005> no problem, you as well
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21:01:07 <gringoloco> 99% of the time I hear about a flash drive dying, it involves FFP !
21:02:59 <Bensawsome> well all drives die eventujally
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21:09:08 <MaienM|Sleep> well FFP is pretty IO heavy, and used a lot
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21:09:34 <MaienM|Sleep> I'd say it's the main pa.c program for 80+% of our users
21:09:40 <MaienM|Sleep> just guessing though
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22:00:29 <nanoguy> Hi everyone
22:00:37 <nanoguy> remember me?
22:05:08 <nanoguy> surely someone remembers me
22:05:49 <Gizmokid2005> hello nanoguy
22:06:02 <nanoguy> do you remember me?
22:06:05 <Gizmokid2005> vaguely
22:06:40 <Bensawsome> and plz dont pm people without asking em first. And I think i remember you somewhat l;ol
22:06:56 <nanoguy> sorry
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23:49:01 <pa_1137> how do i get a .exe to show up on the list of portabel apps?
23:50:07 <ZachThibeau> http://portableapps.com/support/portable_apps_suite#addingotherapps
23:50:18 <ZachThibeau> that page will have the information you are looking for ;)
23:50:33 <vf2nsr> place it in a folder with name like foobar, place it in root refresh icons and it should show
23:50:43 <vf2nsr> oops sorry Zach
23:50:54 <vf2nsr> I go back to sleep
23:50:56 <pa_1137> i have doen this and it still does not show
23:51:25 <ZachThibeau> then what you need to do is go to options and refresh app icons or restart the platform by closing and reopening
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23:52:24 <pa_3384> does portable apps support .com files under its menu?
23:52:39 <ZachThibeau> no not dirextly
23:52:43 <ZachThibeau> **directly
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23:53:14 <ZachThibeau> if you were to get it added you would have to make a special file called an appinfo.ini file to make it truely work, I'll find the link... nm then
23:53:27 <ZachThibeau> I wish people would wait :/
23:55:25 <vf2nsr> ;)
23:55:45 <vf2nsr> aren't you supposed to be a mind reader
23:58:36 <ZachThibeau> not in the faith I believe in :P if you were a mind reader then you would need to be delivered :P