IRC Log from 2010-04-29

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00:05:20 <GizmoBot> ChrisMorgan is a PortableApps.com developer and moderator and works on the PortableApps.com Launcher (please test it!)
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00:07:01 <JohnTHaller> hi ChrisMorgan
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00:07:01 <GizmoBot> SergentSiler is a PortableApps.com Menu Themer, his theme website is http://silerhost.site50.net
00:07:10 <ChrisMorgan> Hi JohnTHaller
00:07:16 <JohnTHaller> how goes it
00:07:20 <ChrisMorgan> Fine.
00:07:40 <JohnTHaller> caught up on classes and such?
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00:12:32 <barjavel.freenode.net> Topic for #portableapps is: Welcome to the PortableApps.com support channel. If you need assistance, just say "help!", or ask your question, and WAIT rather than just leaving. | Please don't PM without asking first | This channel is logged: http://nascent-project.org/irc/logs | The #PortableApps IRC rules are here: http://gizmokid2005.com/paircrules Read and abide by them
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00:18:36 <JohnTHaller> At the platform level, the user can disable user language switching for all apps and will be able to for an individual app, too.
00:18:42 <ChrisMorgan> They're using the Platform in French and so it will still write the value...
00:18:48 <JohnTHaller> (and disabling it means that the env vars are blank)
00:19:01 <JohnTHaller> As it should. If the env var is set, write that value.
00:20:25 <JohnTHaller> If the platform is in French and the env var is set, switch to French, even if they manually switched the app earlier. If the platform is in French and they have disabled language switching either universally or just for that app, the env var will be blank and you don't touch anything in the app in terms of changing its language.
00:21:09 <ChrisMorgan> I think that it's better to read a value from a user file (whether you do it just when the Platform language isn't set or always) and use the variable as a proper environment variable. It achieves complete encapsulation of the language section and avoids more interdependency.
00:21:29 <JohnTHaller> What file would you get it from an why?
00:21:45 <ChrisMorgan> Any file, by a ConfigRead or a ReadINIStr.
00:22:21 <ChrisMorgan> There are also many apps which you haven't considered; those that don't use permanent storage for the language but rather temporary storage - an environment variable.
00:22:44 <ChrisMorgan> All (or almost all) GTK apps do it that way.
00:22:55 <ChrisMorgan> Then you can't leave it at what the user has set, you *have* to pick a value.
00:22:59 <JohnTHaller> Like GIMP for example. In that case, we could have that stored as an option of your choosing in the Data\settings INI file where you store the drive info.
00:23:19 <ChrisMorgan> And in that case, going to the default of English is absolutely correct.
00:23:19 <JohnTHaller> No, you don't. If nothing is set, it'll default to English, as it does right now.
00:23:34 <ChrisMorgan> Yes, but you have to pick a value - you can't just leave it blank.
00:23:48 <JohnTHaller> You can indeed leave it blank. It'll default to english, as it does right now.
00:24:03 <ChrisMorgan> I put that very badly.
00:24:11 <JohnTHaller> If the user manually edits that INI file and sets it and the platform isn't present, you use that entry in the INI file.
00:24:24 <ChrisMorgan> I mean, you've got to pick a value; that value may be an empty string, but you've got to pick a value.
00:24:42 <ChrisMorgan> It might default to German, and so you need to set it to en by default.
00:25:07 <ChrisMorgan> All those sorts of cases are handled in [Language] and [LanguageStrings]
00:25:10 <JohnTHaller> So why does any of this necessitate it changing languages without the user or platform prompting it to as has been reported as a bug?
00:26:05 <ChrisMorgan> Because it's got to have some value so that it can be used.
00:26:12 <JohnTHaller> It's fine to have a default. It's fine to switch languages of the app based on the platform's env vars passed in. But it should let the app do its thing otherwise.
00:27:00 <ChrisMorgan> The way I've engineered it - the best way I think it can be done - it needs a value to be set. It then uses it as an ordinary environment variable.
00:27:17 <JohnTHaller> The launcher resetting the app to english on every launch (after the user within the app changed it to German and the app saved that selection to its config file) is absolutely, positively, 100% a bug.
00:27:26 <JohnTHaller> Are you with me on that much?
00:28:05 <ChrisMorgan> Yes.
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00:28:27 <JohnTHaller> Ok, so working back from that, how do we get the launcher to NOT change the language on the user when launched solo (sans platform).
00:29:12 <ChrisMorgan> Skipping something because it contains %PAL:LanguageCustom% just doesn't become a reasonable solution; it involves too much integration; each part has to know too much about the other parts (which is already a problem). And for things like environment variables it can't just work with an IgnoreIfPlatformLanguageMissing value due to the structure.
00:29:37 <ChrisMorgan> Answer: have an option to read the (user-specified) value from a file when the platform isn't there.
00:30:29 <JohnTHaller> I'm not talking about ANY other section of the launcher. Just the one bit that writes out to the app's config file and changes its language. That one part should be skipped if the language wasn't set by the platform.
00:31:07 <JohnTHaller> It's comletely unreasonable to ask end-users to have to edit an INI file just to have an app like KeePass keep from switching back to English when they want it in French and selected French the last time they used it.
00:31:24 <Gizmokid2005> if %PAL:LanguageCustom% is null, Then Do Nothing, Else use %PAL:LanguageCustom%
00:32:04 <ChrisMorgan> The problem is that it's difficult to know where the language setting is done. It could be done by writing a value to the registry, to a file, to an environment variable or maybe even something else.
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00:32:57 <JohnTHaller> How can it be that difficult, you wrote the code for the automatic handling of it. So it just needs to be handled there. Just a few IF statements around it.
00:33:51 <ChrisMorgan> It's not, really. It becomes large-scale code duplication in quite a few more sections, which is just not a good way of doing it. It's also just not a neat solution.
00:34:21 <ChrisMorgan> I'm trying to head back towards better encapsulation than I currently have. This would break any notion of encapsulation into several thousand shards. :-)
00:34:35 <ChrisMorgan> And I think just reading from a file or registry value should do it.
00:34:40 <JohnTHaller> Regardless of the elegance pf code, bad user experience is bad user experience
00:35:19 <ChrisMorgan> A file/registry read would work. It wouldn't damage the user experience.
00:35:28 <JohnTHaller> Resetting an app back to a language the user doesn't want just because a user hasn't manually editted an INI file they've never heard of in a location they don't expect is not acceptable.
00:35:58 <ChrisMorgan> I mean reading a file or registry value from the app, not from the portable app settings (though it could be overridden there)
00:36:01 <JohnTHaller> Apps have langugage switchers within them, the user has to be able to use those and have their selection honored when the platform isn'
00:36:04 <JohnTHaller> t present
00:36:39 <JohnTHaller> If you're getting it from the app itself (and not changing it) that's fine as well.
00:36:49 <JohnTHaller> But it should be in this order:
00:36:57 <JohnTHaller> 1) use the platform's language selection if set
00:37:08 <JohnTHaller> 2) Keep the current language selection in the app if already set
00:37:09 <ChrisMorgan> Say that it will have its language stored in Data\settings\settings.conf as a line "lang=french.lng". That could be done in [Language] as a default if the Platform isn't there, like the FileWrite but as a FileRead.
00:37:12 <JohnTHaller> 3) default to english
00:37:27 <ChrisMorgan> That's how I'm doing it.
00:37:52 <JohnTHaller> Then why are there bug reports saying it's being reset on every launch? I thought that was the whole point of this issue
00:38:06 <ChrisMorgan> I haven't implemented it yet.
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00:39:06 <JohnTHaller> But you just said you weren't going to until 2.1. Meaning that languagse switching in 2.0 would have to be scrapped by devs.
00:39:12 <ChrisMorgan> It's possible (though I can't think of any reason for it yet) that in some cases this (ConfigRead/ReadINIString/ReadRegValue) will not be sufficient; in that case custom code to read the current user-set value would be necessary.
00:39:25 <ChrisMorgan> That's where it is on my plan; I can move it forward to 2.0 though.
00:40:00 <Scriptdaemon> I've not done GTK apps before, do I need to backup .gtk-bookmarks or can I just delete it?
00:40:10 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon: back it up
00:40:13 <Scriptdaemon> K.
00:40:15 <JohnTHaller> Ok, then the current behavior can't be released as 'stable' then, in my eyes. The user experience is just plain bad.
00:40:39 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon, you can use it to advantage though, to create a bookmark for "Documents" or whatever.
00:40:53 <JohnTHaller> Honestly, I think we should add in bits to just skip setting the app's language if it isn't getting it from the platform. Even if it is inelegant, it's the right logical thing to do.
00:41:24 <JohnTHaller> Every launcher already works that way.
00:41:25 <ChrisMorgan> It has too far-reaching effects on the rest of the launcher. And you'd be more likely to miss something.
00:41:31 <Scriptdaemon> ChrisMorgan: Did you read my reply in that post? Is it possible to skip a setting if a var in it is empty?
00:41:44 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon: Did you read my reply in that post? ;-)
00:42:00 <Scriptdaemon> Apparently I did not, you got to it after I checked. =P
00:42:12 <ChrisMorgan> Not quite every app, I don't think. It might be but I don't think it would be, quite.
00:42:14 <JohnTHaller> Then we need to change all the bits where it writes it out back to the app.
00:43:00 <Scriptdaemon> What about, if it's not passed by the platform, use the local language?
00:43:07 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon, EEK!
00:43:59 <Gizmokid2005> I hate to say it, but really...why not? How often is a user going to be going between computers where it's not in their native language?
00:44:06 <vf2nsr> EEK sucha technical terms
00:44:21 <ChrisMorgan> The two main sections I think we need to be concerned about are FileWriteN and RegistryValueWrite. If I can handle /reading/ those values then I'm happy with it. That way will be a bit more verbose in the INI file and a bit more involved in the code, but it's a more sustainable solution.
00:44:27 <JohnTHaller> Even your way of reading in the current app's setting and using that and writing it back out is flawed. Often an app will add a new language, but the launcher won't know about it because we didn't update it. In which case, the launcher should do nothing to the app's language (if not launched from the platform) and, if launched from the platform, it'll encounter a language it doesn't know about and it should also do nothing.
00:45:13 <ChrisMorgan> I'm saying to read from the file it gets written to. Then the value is sure to be right.
00:45:37 <ChrisMorgan> Not reading a cached version of it, or "what I did last time", but reading the value itself.
00:46:10 <JohnTHaller> No, it's not. We could have a random app that stores French as "Fren!". And it was added between version 1 and version 2. But the launcher's file mapping the lang strings to our internal ones isn't updated to handle it. So what happens then?
00:46:52 <ChrisMorgan> It looks at the file, reads Fren! and uses it as is - it doesn't try to validate it.
00:46:55 <Scriptdaemon> Revo Uninstaller is a good example of this. Instead of Greek, it uses Hellenic, etc.
00:47:08 <JohnTHaller> But what about the other lang vars at that point. How are they set?
00:47:42 <ChrisMorgan> I've prety much assumed that you won't care about the PortableApps.comL* variables.
00:48:13 <JohnTHaller> Ah ok. Then the situation we have now would basically be impossible under the way you're gonna implement it, then?
00:48:59 <ChrisMorgan> I think so.
00:49:13 <ChrisMorgan> That's the general idea, anyway.
00:49:28 <Scriptdaemon> So... has a conclusion been reached? It's easy to get lost in this debate when you've not been in it from the beginning.
00:49:38 <JohnTHaller> Ok, that's fine by me then. It's up to you how you want to implement it all internally at this point. I just want to make sure we're not resetting app languages because a user isn't using the platyform.
00:49:58 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon: logs are available of almost all of it (netsplit killed palogbot for a few lines)
00:50:17 <Scriptdaemon> tl;dr. I'll just assume you have it handled.
00:50:31 <ChrisMorgan> tl;dr.?
00:50:37 <JohnTHaller> too long, did not read
00:50:49 <JohnTHaller> didn't, that is
00:50:49 <ChrisMorgan> Oh... :-/
00:50:57 <JohnTHaller> Heh. We are verbose at times.
00:51:09 <Scriptdaemon> That was long ago.
00:51:15 <JohnTHaller> Ok, so are you with me on this being a part of 2.0 now?
00:51:20 <ChrisMorgan> It will require a bit more work from the launcher user (package developer) my way, but it will be more correct and easier to maintain.
00:51:48 <ChrisMorgan> Yep, I'll see if I can fit it in tomorrow or possibly tonight. Otherwise Saturday or next Monday evening or some such time.
00:51:57 <Scriptdaemon> So, whatever you guys just decided on, I'm going to have to change OpenTTD and Revo Uninstaller?
00:51:57 <JohnTHaller> They just need to setup that mapping of languages used in the app to our internal code, right? And if it's a standard one, they just need to specificy that, correct?
00:52:32 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon: it'll just be another [FileWriteN] section in reverse, [LanguageDefaultFileRead] or something.
00:53:04 <ChrisMorgan> I'll document it carefully when I do it.
00:53:17 <Scriptdaemon> Ah. Just asking to make sure I know what to update to keep my launchers up to date.
00:53:27 <ChrisMorgan> Heh... so much for my idea of getting started on the lab or working on my second assignment before the lab :P
00:53:38 <JohnTHaller> ChrisMorgan: It shoudn't be 'Default' should it? Woudln't 'Current' make more sense?
00:53:49 <ChrisMorgan> Yeah, it would, wouldn't it.
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00:54:20 <Scriptdaemon> That reminds me. If someone if using CheckifExists or whatever and the one after that, is "default" ever necessary?
00:54:29 <Scriptdaemon> Default*
00:54:43 <JohnTHaller> Of course, some launchers will just leave out language switching, but I'm hoping everyone implements it. Sounds like your setup is pretty straigtforward once you wrap your head around it.
00:55:09 <ChrisMorgan> I hope so.
00:55:22 <ChrisMorgan> Have you seen my nice flowchart in the manual documenting how the language section works?
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00:55:29 <JohnTHaller> heh, yeah
00:55:41 <Scriptdaemon> It's not that difficult to implement, though I can't say anything regarding the new stuff you're gonna do.
00:55:45 <JohnTHaller> Don't take too much away from your schoolwork, that still comes first.
00:56:12 <JohnTHaller> Oh, I did mail you your USB drive on Saturday, finally, btw.
00:56:25 <ChrisMorgan> Ooh! Wonder how long it will take to get to Melbourne.
00:56:39 <JohnTHaller> Dunno. I'm curious.
00:56:44 <ChrisMorgan> Jon and Ben both sent postcards from America a day or two before they left... and they beat their postcards in both instances.
00:56:50 <JohnTHaller> I didn't load anything on it since B5 wasn't ready.
00:56:57 <JohnTHaller> Hah
00:57:09 <ChrisMorgan> And Ben's going back to America in the midyear Uni holidays... *sigh*
00:57:19 <JohnTHaller> I'm thinking we'll do a special OEM setting for PA.c Developers that give the menu a special logo and look :-D
00:57:43 <Gizmokid2005> oooh :)
00:58:01 <ChrisMorgan> Big splash screen... "Everything works from my USB disk, ask me how you can have it too!"
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00:58:31 <JohnTHaller> Along with some custom links off a Dev icon on the bottom of the right-hand side set of folder icons back to the Dev section and other stuff like that.
00:58:46 <ChrisMorgan> 2.0 first :P
00:58:51 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, this comes after.
00:59:09 <JohnTHaller> But it's just an OEM setting (for which the coding is already done).
00:59:26 <JohnTHaller> So I'd just need our designer to whip up a cool logo for it and give it out to devs :-)
01:00:37 <Gizmokid2005> JohnTHaller: :)
01:00:40 <Gizmokid2005> see my PR today?
01:01:02 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, good to see :-)
01:01:10 <Scriptdaemon> I hate proofs so much.
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01:01:50 <Gizmokid2005> JohnTHaller: not much for a description yet, but KVIrc doesn't really have one. I'm going to see if I can get with some of the devs, or maybe on the mailing list, and get something a bit more comprehensive
01:01:54 <JohnTHaller> QED!
01:02:05 <JohnTHaller> yeah
01:02:32 <Scriptdaemon> I like the make up my own phrases. "Tada!" "Bippity-boppity-proven!" etc.
01:02:48 <Gizmokid2005> I just don't know /everything/ that KVIrc is capable of so. I'll update the post when I have it.
01:03:25 <Gizmokid2005> and one of the devs said he wasn't tagging another RC(4), so when it's done, it's final. Though they think it'll be a while yet.
01:03:35 <Scriptdaemon> Has anything regarding what apps will be the first to be tested been decided?
01:04:02 <Scriptdaemon> Or at least, the order os.
01:04:03 <Scriptdaemon> of*
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01:04:51 <GizmoBot> ChrisMorgan is a PortableApps.com developer and moderator and works on the PortableApps.com Launcher (please test it!)
01:05:01 <Scriptdaemon> Wb
01:05:25 <ChrisMorgan> Proofs do tend to be either obvious or ridiculous...
01:05:58 <ChrisMorgan> "Prove that f(x)=g(y)": "Examiner has stated that f(x)=g(y). I trust the examiner. Thus f(x)=g(y). Q.E.D."
01:06:04 <Scriptdaemon> I had to do a proof in class that it's possible to divide.
01:06:09 <Scriptdaemon> The uniqueness part, at least.
01:08:10 <Scriptdaemon> Right now I have to prove there exists a real number x such that x^2=2.
01:10:05 <sar3th> that's easy, just guess that it's +-sqrt(2) and prove it's right
01:10:27 <Scriptdaemon> We're not allowed to assume what we're trying to prove.
01:10:37 <Gizmokid2005> yeah
01:10:39 <Gizmokid2005> it has to be a proof
01:10:53 <sar3th> meh, in school you could do that
01:10:56 <sar3th> simpler times
01:11:41 <ChrisMorgan> Proof by assumption is quite reasonable.
01:11:53 <sar3th> how about sqrt-ing the equation?
01:11:55 <sar3th> :P
01:12:01 <Gizmokid2005> you'd sqrt the whole thing
01:12:10 <Gizmokid2005> problem solved.
01:12:15 <Gizmokid2005> +/- ofc
01:12:29 <sar3th> das what i suggested ;)
01:12:37 <Scriptdaemon> We haven't proved yet that it's possible to do that.
01:12:43 <Scriptdaemon> Otherwise it'd be too easy.
01:12:57 <Scriptdaemon> The way to go is the Archimedean Principle.
01:14:37 <sar3th> "software engineering" here mainly consists of blargh :/
01:16:38 <Scriptdaemon> I've no idea if I'm allowed to say x^1/2 instead of sqrt(x), but since it seems pretty essential to be able to do so I'm going to assume I can...
01:17:07 <Scriptdaemon> I especially hate proof classes where you start off at *nothing.*
01:25:56 <ChrisMorgan> Uh oh.. 20 minutes into the 2-hour lab and I'm finished.
01:26:58 <Scriptdaemon> So now you have time to work on PAL.
01:27:32 <ChrisMorgan> No, I have time to work on my assignment.
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02:08:16 <ChrisMorgan> Grr... that's the fourth time PChat has suddenly stopped responding and started guzzling the CPU...
02:13:47 <ZachThibeau> can you give details like how much it's taking?
02:14:01 <ZachThibeau> a little more information could be of some help :)
02:14:33 <ChrisMorgan> 100%
02:14:38 <ChrisMorgan> Completely out of control.
02:14:49 <ChrisMorgan> Problem is, I can't pinpoint what it is that's causing it at all.
02:15:04 <ZachThibeau> memory? like how many k's?
02:15:10 <ChrisMorgan> (100% as this is a single-core machine)
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02:15:32 <ChrisMorgan> Not sure. I didn't think to check. The memory usage line in Task Manager didn't look unusual though.
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02:15:45 <ChrisMorgan> Probably just an infinite loop due to some missing check.
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02:19:12 <ZachThibeau> sorry, network reset on me
02:19:24 <ChrisMorgan> You didn't quit.
02:19:36 <ZachThibeau> I have a znc
02:19:44 <ChrisMorgan> Ah. You didn't even rename.
02:19:59 <ZachThibeau> it stays running on a different server which I log into, nah that module keeps unloading for some reason
02:21:38 <ZachThibeau> anyways I'll see if I can try a few memory saving options I can think of maybe help reduce the memory leaks you are experiencing
02:22:13 <ChrisMorgan> I don't think it's a memory issue.
02:22:20 <ChrisMorgan> I think it's an infinite loop.
02:22:33 <ChrisMorgan> Memory usage still seemed normal.
02:22:46 <ZachThibeau> hmmm
02:23:05 <ZachThibeau> Well I don't really have a single core processor anymore :/
02:23:22 <ZachThibeau> and my current dual core processor is pretty nice, AMD Phenom X2 :D
02:23:35 <ZachThibeau> at 3.1 ghz :)
02:23:47 <ChrisMorgan> I expect that it'd go splurk just as well on a dual-core machine.
02:25:08 <ChrisMorgan> Wow, this is a serious assignment... 748 lines of code (including comments) :P
02:25:37 <ChrisMorgan> AND I haven't finished documenting the test class either...
02:27:04 <ZachThibeau> sorry connection restarted on me
02:27:06 <ZachThibeau> I think my router is overheating
02:27:57 <ChrisMorgan> 15 lines more! Shock, horror! (Just think, in Python this might be around 450 lines instead of 763 lines.)
02:28:11 <sar3th> LOC is not a good measurement unit imo
02:28:21 <sar3th> especially for software complexity
02:28:33 <ChrisMorgan> sar3th: the Python code would be more compact, neater, faster and more understandable.
02:29:19 <sar3th> that's becuase python is a lot less strict than other languages
02:29:21 <ChrisMorgan> Some bits would be much better. For example, Python has its for-else construct which I don't think any other langauge has.
02:29:29 <ChrisMorgan> Hmmm... somewhat.
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02:57:56 <pa_1174> hi
02:58:06 <ChrisMorgan> Hi, pa_1174! Can we help you with anything?
02:58:29 <pa_1174> when will the new u torrent come out
02:59:55 <ChrisMorgan> Just run the installer again - if I recall correctly, it'll get you the latest build automatically.
03:00:41 <pa_1174> uTorrentPortable_2.0_Build_18620_online.paf.exe
03:01:26 <ChrisMorgan> Try running it. It'll download the latest build.
03:01:45 <pa_1174> ok
03:01:52 <pa_1174> thanks
03:02:03 <ChrisMorgan> If you need any more help you'll need to ask someone else, I've got another class now.
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06:41:47 <GizmoBot> ...
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07:02:04 <Scriptdaemon> ChrisMorgan, I can figure out how to add the Data directory to the .gtk-bookmarks file, but I can't figure out how to make it so that it's the default (and it doesn't make it the default automatically).
07:03:32 <ChrisMorgan> sorry, g2g, just cleaning up spam
07:03:59 <Scriptdaemon> K.
07:04:53 <ChrisMorgan> Not sure entirely what you mean though. Put it in the logs for when I get home.
07:05:06 <ChrisMorgan> DefaultData or something inside .gtk-bookmarks?
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07:06:38 <Scriptdaemon> Something inside .gtk-bookmarks, assuming it's possible. Even with the .gtk-bookmarks file, I can't get it to save to the Data directory automatically. I can add the Data directory to the list of directories in the little dialog, but I don't know how to make it the default directory.
07:16:56 <Scriptdaemon> Interesting...
07:17:16 <Scriptdaemon> The PAL keeps crashing now. Debugging then posting it on pastebin.
07:21:08 <Scriptdaemon> Well, that certainly didn't help.
07:23:32 <Scriptdaemon> http://scriptdaemon.pastebin.com/1sU7Zf16
07:27:18 <Scriptdaemon> If CleanTemp=false is commented out, it gets to the next debug message but then it crashes again.
07:33:39 <Scriptdaemon> That doesn't make any sense. It crashes even when EVERYTHING other than the executable is commented out. And the thing is, it only crashes when launching from the menu. (Still works from the desktop).
07:35:24 <Scriptdaemon> ...Nvermind, not anymore. Even though it was a minute ago.
07:35:27 <Scriptdaemon> Nevermind*
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07:39:16 <Scriptdaemon> I'm impressed with my ability to break PAL.
07:48:01 <Scriptdaemon> Alright, while it still doesn't make any sense, I think I can reproduce. Doing just a bit more testing though...
07:51:47 <Scriptdaemon> It appears to crash when there is no WaitForProgram=False...
08:00:35 <Scriptdaemon> And now it's not crashing anymore.
08:00:36 <Scriptdaemon> -.-
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08:04:01 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon: OK, I'll read the logs now...
08:04:10 <Scriptdaemon> lol. Have fun.
08:04:17 <ChrisMorgan> Uh oh, that bad, is it?
08:04:37 <ChrisMorgan> Actually, I'll go and have tea first...
08:04:40 <Scriptdaemon> I managed to somehow break the launcher, was able to produce it a couple times, and now it's not crashing anymore.
08:15:29 <Scriptdaemon> I still have no idea how that happened. Doing exactly what I did before, and now it won't crash even when I want it to.
08:24:50 <Scriptdaemon> I'm probably going to go soon, but you can look further into this if you want even though I can't produce it anymore. In the very least what I did before that made it start crashing was chance the launcher .ini to what I posted on pastebin and added DefaultData\settings\.gtk-bookmarks (with the contents: file:///C:/Users/Kenny%20Williams/Desktop/FyrePortable/Data)
08:25:04 <Scriptdaemon> change*
08:27:38 <Scriptdaemon> (Yes, I know that's going to need to be changed for other users, I was just testing it on my machine)
08:32:38 <Scriptdaemon> Night.
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11:19:38 <ChrisMorgan> Good, this new server of mine is reporting file sizes, continuable downloads etc. properly.
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17:02:02 <pa_0896> HI DO YOU HAVE A PORTABLE VERSION FOR LINUX?
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19:21:53 <Drive-Dude> Hi I did use write to talk software to listen on http://portableapps.com/node/23369 it is saying at Google Chrome sucks or a Evil App. Why do you have if on Portable App Directory?
19:22:20 <Drive-Dude> it not if
19:24:32 <sar3th> becuase "google chrome sucks" is a personal opinion
19:24:41 <sar3th> and we give you the right to decide for yourself
19:24:52 <sar3th> or rather the ability
19:26:30 <Drive-Dude> But it is saying that it steals personal infomation
19:28:11 <sar3th> i don't think it does that, it's just a assumption. actually, chrome is based on chromium, which is open source software so you can see for yourself whether it does steal personal information or not
19:28:42 <Drive-Dude> Here from http://portableapps.com/node/23369 Now, will you please, I'm kindly asking you, read THIS Wikipedia article
19:28:55 <Drive-Dude> waite
19:29:15 <Drive-Dude> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Chrome#Usage_tracking
19:31:28 <sar3th> RLZ has been removed, as stated in the article
19:32:08 <sar3th> plus i don't think that "another person has installed chrome now" counts as personal information
19:33:36 <Drive-Dude> I did not read the the article just on the forums
19:34:55 <Drive-Dude> So Google Ghrome is safe to use without sending something
19:35:03 <Drive-Dude> portble version
19:35:53 <Drive-Dude> Because I dont like to being tracked
19:37:28 <Drive-Dude> I was there to see why does my USB Flash Drive wearing out
19:38:10 <sar3th> i understand your privacy concerns
19:38:23 <sar3th> they are the reason why i personally don't use google chrome ;)
19:38:35 <sar3th> but i don't think you should take it off the portableapps list
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19:46:20 <Drive-Dude> Hi I am back
19:46:42 <Drive-Dude> What did you say about Google Ghrome Portable
19:46:56 <Drive-Dude> I needed to do something
19:47:09 <Drive-Dude> before
19:48:11 <gluxon> Drive-Dude: Google may collect information, but it doesn't take personal or private info (passwords, logins). Don't worry about it.
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19:49:17 <Drive-Dude> Which infomation does it take and why?
19:50:22 <Drive-Dude> That really freaked me out
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20:46:54 <Gringoloco> See this: http://portableapps.com/node/23396#comment-148487
20:49:44 <sar3th> Gringoloco: op sounds like spam, probably it's malware :/
20:50:01 <sar3th> i shall take a look in a moment
20:50:50 <Gringoloco> Or worse... But I do not want accuse somebody wrongly !
20:51:31 <sar3th> no worries
20:51:32 <Gringoloco> Is his fist ever topic and member just 4 days
20:51:38 <sar3th> i'm checking with virustotal
20:52:27 <sar3th> Gringoloco: if you are interested in the results, see http://www.virustotal.com/de/analisis/92f130cd389a5c3d54c3893342458c8190cd1c4daab1ee147d4d22790fba3264-1272574282
20:52:37 <sar3th> oh, it's german :/
20:52:45 <Gringoloco> no problem
20:52:48 <sar3th> change the /de/ to /en/ and it should be okay
20:53:34 <sar3th> were you able to identify the installer?
20:53:47 <Gringoloco> What do you mean ?
20:54:02 <sar3th> i mean was it a generic installer like nsis, clickteam, etc or something custom?
20:54:49 <Gringoloco> Some comand prompt window poped up saying something about 'Reg2Key'
20:55:26 <sar3th> it appears to be a win32 console application coded with delphi :/
20:57:39 <Gringoloco> Borland Delphi 6.0 - 7.0
20:57:49 <sar3th> yes
20:58:02 <sar3th> that's what i'm getting as well
20:58:26 <sar3th> i will check with my virtual machine
21:01:22 <Gringoloco> I just checked the sandboxed reghive, and it did just write a link to his exe in
21:01:25 <Gringoloco> Sandbox_Gringoloco_DefaultBox\machine\software\Classes\regfile\shell\Extract Parent Keys\command
21:01:53 <sar3th> meaning it will open when you click on a .reg file
21:02:08 <sar3th> and choose extract parent keys
21:02:56 <Gringoloco> that's probably the right click option you would get, I do not see much out of the ordinary!
21:03:35 <sar3th> that is probably because of sandboxie
21:03:42 <Gringoloco> But still there shouldn't be a need for it to be located in system32, or should there be?
21:03:52 <sar3th> usually not
21:04:20 <Gringoloco> What is because of sandboxie?
21:04:35 <sar3th> that it does not show up in your context menu
21:05:07 <Gringoloco> yes, that's because of sandboxie. Poor Homer_s
21:06:46 <Gringoloco> sar3th: What OS are you on?
21:06:53 <sar3th> windows xp
21:07:02 <Gringoloco> servicepack?
21:07:07 <sar3th> sp3
21:07:59 <Gringoloco> Ok, I do not think it's really nesacery to contibute to the unicode plugin test
21:10:34 <sar3th> the installer really seems to only do that
21:10:41 <sar3th> extract the file to system32
21:10:46 <sar3th> then add the regkey
21:13:28 <sar3th> it seems to be a legitimate program
21:14:25 <sar3th> it will create a text file with the registry keys in it
21:19:51 <Gringoloco> Yes, probably it's fine, it was just a bit odd, a new member
21:20:46 <Gringoloco> it's installing something to the local system, Homer_S asks for help to uninstall but no reply?
21:21:49 <Gringoloco> No source-code ? It all just worried me!
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22:11:27 <sar3th> yes, that reaction is perfectly normal
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22:42:37 <Gringoloco_> Hi ChrisMorgan
22:42:44 <ChrisMorgan> Hi Gringoloco_
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22:47:22 <Gringoloco_> ChrisMorgan: the plug-in called RegistryVC60libCurU.dll is the one we currently use !
22:48:00 <ChrisMorgan> So what do I need to do? I think managing Unicode NSIS Portable is your area, I can just stick to the PAL source, right?
22:49:22 <Gringoloco_> Yes right, but I never new that you had problem with the registry plug-in for Wine ?
22:50:49 <Gringoloco_> Ah, I see, your replying to the comment about nsExec::Exec `"$WINDIR\system32\reg.exe" import "$EXEDIR\Source\test.reg"`
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22:52:38 <Gringoloco_> ChrisMorgan: But I'm sure you've got it set up like that anyway!
22:53:01 <Gringoloco_> I'm really abit confused about your reply in the forum?
22:53:25 <ChrisMorgan> I mentioned some time ago that that was a bug I knew about, that restoring the registry key didn't work in Wine. I discovered that while testing the first release of Process Explorer Portable.
22:54:34 <Gringoloco_> But the launcher uses ${registry::restore} if reg.exe doesn't exsits, atm !
22:57:00 <ChrisMorgan> But reg.exe *does* exist.
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23:01:15 <Gringoloco_> reg.exe does exist, but doesn't import the key ! Probably check the resulting Pop and if not 0 make it use ${registry::restore} !
23:01:58 <ChrisMorgan> I don't know what the problem is. But it didn't import it. I didn't go through step by step.
23:03:00 <Gringoloco_> Ok, but i'm not using wine, so I'm afraid you have to sort this.
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23:03:21 <ChrisMorgan> I should update to Ubuntu 10.04 LTS sometime soon. :D
23:03:30 <ChrisMorgan> Hello, pa_7234! Can we help you with anything?
23:03:53 <pa_7234> How do I open my email attachment with this
23:04:47 <ChrisMorgan> Are you using Thunderbird?
23:05:45 <pa_7234> I have no idea, just said to open this account and would be able to open attachment
23:06:36 <ZachThibeau> if we don't know what application you are running that is giving you this message there isn't much we can do, what is the title bar saying in the application you are running that gave you that message
23:09:22 <pa_7234> I signed up for portableapps to open an attachment but don't know what else to do and where is the title bar?
23:10:44 <ChrisMorgan> pa_7234: I'm afraid I don't understand what you're saying. What are you trying to open?
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23:47:24 <ChrisMorgan> Gringoloco_: any form of sleep in the launcher *should* be unnecessary. If ever it's needed it shows that something will be unreliable - the time you wait may not be long enough on a computer running slowly.
23:48:15 <vf2nsr> to move multiple files with filemove do I number them individually?
23:48:48 <Gringoloco_> Probably a launcher doesn't need the sleep, in a launcher the key gets restored after all the backingup and deleting
23:48:51 <ChrisMorgan> number? FilesMove doesn't use numbers.
23:49:05 <ChrisMorgan> Registry stuff should be synchronous.
23:49:32 <vf2nsr> so if I place 3 entried in it will move them all?
23:49:38 <vf2nsr> entried
23:49:42 <vf2nsr> entries
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23:55:51 <ChrisMorgan> Sure
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23:59:49 <Gringoloco> ChrisMorgan: all what 'registry::restore' does, is to execute 'regedit.exe'
23:59:58 <Gringoloco> I'm guessing, that registry::restore returns while regedit.exe is still restoring the key