IRC Log from 2010-07-09

00:00:18 *** auscompgeek has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
00:00:41 <pa_5740> Back to question time, how come VLC is in the list of portable apps? it say on it's own page if I'm not mistaken that there's potential patent troubles.
00:00:52 <pa_5740> Of course, IANAL.
00:01:46 <sar3th> :o
00:01:49 *** Shanet (~Shane@218-215-221-165.people.net.au) has joined #portableapps
00:01:58 *** Shanet has parted #portableapps (None)
00:03:13 *** Shanet (~Shane@218-215-221-165.people.net.au) has joined #portableapps
00:03:33 <qwertymodo> where does it say that? can't say I've ever seen anything about that...
00:03:50 *** Shanet has quit (Client Quit)
00:03:51 <MaienM|Sleep> pa_5740: I don't think any of us are going to be able to answer these question, we're not the ones making decisions about this and we have never looked into stuff like this. I'd (again) advise posting in the forums or contacting JTH
00:04:03 <pa_5740> http://www.videolan.org/support/faq.html
00:05:21 <pa_5740> Do a search in the page for the word patents and you'll see what I mean.
00:05:36 *** nick-1 (~Shane@218-215-221-165.people.net.au) has joined #portableapps
00:05:37 <pa_5740> If I'm correct that is.
00:06:09 *** nick-1 has quit (Client Quit)
00:06:26 <pa_5740> I should have said "patent" not "patents".
00:06:56 <qwertymodo> I don't see anything stating there ARE issues or even that there MIGHT BE beyond the typical "We aren't about to track down lawyers from every country to confirm that what we are claiming applies to you"
00:07:58 <pa_5740> Like I said earlier, potential patent issues.
00:08:08 *** ZachThibeau (~ZachThibe@unaffiliated/zachthibeau) has joined #portableapps
00:08:09 <GizmoBot> ZachThibeau is the main developer of PChat and is a developer with PortableApps.com
00:08:28 <qwertymodo> that's pretty much going to be the case for any software distributed globally, so I wouldn't worry
00:09:03 <qwertymodo> if it's alright with the FSF, it's alright with me :P
00:09:20 <MaienM|Sleep> I'm pretty sure the only part applying to us is "May I redistribute a piece of VideoLAN software?"
00:09:28 <MaienM|Sleep> since all we do is redistribute it
00:09:44 <MaienM|Sleep> anyway, I'm really off to bed now, so bye guys
00:10:10 <pa_5740> I wasn't thinking about the redistributing aspect of it.
00:10:25 <pa_5740> Goodnight MaienM|Sleep!
00:11:04 <pa_5740> or Good Morning, depending on where you may be.
00:11:21 <pa_5740> Anyway, have a good sleep!
00:12:05 <pa_5740> Back to VLC, my concern lies with the fact that it has libavcodec in it
00:12:20 <pa_5740> which if I'm correct a part of FFmpeg
00:12:41 <pa_5740> which if I'm correct, has potential legal issues.
00:12:53 <qwertymodo> VLC is GPL, so I see no issues there...
00:13:08 <qwertymodo> MPlayer uses it too
00:13:32 <pa_5740> I meant legal issues in regards to patents being violated.
00:13:50 <qwertymodo> it doesn't include an mp3 encoder
00:14:22 <ZachThibeau> and FFmpeg is also fsf friendly so there isn't an issue license wise
00:14:37 <pa_5740> The issue is in all likelihood wayyyyyy beyond a mp3 encoder.
00:15:21 <pa_5740> I mean decoders for wma, wmv, mpeg-4, etc.
00:15:42 <qwertymodo> I'm pretty sure something as heavily used as libavcodec has been thoroughly looked over for stuff like that
00:16:13 <ZachThibeau> brb
00:16:15 *** ZachThibeau has quit (Quit: Leaving)
00:16:42 <pa_5740> Take a peek at this page:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libavcodec
00:17:05 <pa_5740> And this one too:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FFmpeg#Legal_status_of_codecs
00:17:37 *** ZachThibeau (~ZachThibe@unaffiliated/zachthibeau) has joined #portableapps
00:17:38 <GizmoBot> ZachThibeau is the main developer of PChat and is a developer with PortableApps.com
00:17:59 <pa_5740> And this one too:http://ffmpeg.org/legal.html
00:18:13 *** MaienM|Sleep has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
00:18:29 <qwertymodo> well, as I said, that's the nature of distibuting globally...
00:19:19 <pa_5740> But seeing how I'm in the US, it does effect me.
00:19:46 <qwertymodo> from that last link (the ffmpag FAQ)
00:19:46 <qwertymodo> Q: Bottom line: Should I be worried about patent issues if I use FFmpeg?
00:19:46 <qwertymodo> A: Are you a private user working with FFmpeg for your own personal purposes? If so, there is remarkably little reason to be concerned. Are you using FFmpeg in a commercial software product? Read on to the next question...
00:21:04 <pa_5740> But the thing I'm concerned with is the fact that such information has not been stated by the respective owners of the formats included with libavcodec
00:21:39 <ZachThibeau> if you have an issue mail the vlc devs, we just make it portable, we aren't the developers of vlc itself
00:21:50 <ZachThibeau> or even contact ffmpeg's mailing list
00:22:16 <pa_5740> Concerning ffmpeg's mailing list, I don't know how to do so.
00:22:35 <ZachThibeau> go to their homepage they should have a link on how to contact them
00:22:37 <qwertymodo> http://www.ffmpeg.org/mailinglists.html
00:23:04 <qwertymodo> they also have two irc channels on freenode
00:23:49 <pa_5740> I've seen that page, and one, my question doesn't fit in the mailing lists & two, I don't have a irc client.
00:24:46 <ZachThibeau> pa_5740: use PChat Portable then thats an IRC Client I forked from xchat and there is also kvirc portable which is another irc client we provide portably
00:25:19 <sar3th> qwertymodo: which are the channels?
00:25:27 <pa_5740> was xchat open-source?
00:25:32 <qwertymodo> #ffmpeg and #ffmpeg-devel
00:25:36 <sar3th> pa_5740: type /join #ffmpeg
00:26:03 <sar3th> ask them, they are the experts
00:26:08 <sar3th> and yes, xchat is open sourced
00:26:18 <pa_5740> just out of curiosity sar3th, are you planning on looking into this?
00:26:21 <qwertymodo> yeah, I was going to say just use the web client you're on right now :P
00:26:51 <pa_5740> pardon my ignorance, but what does :P mean?
00:27:25 <qwertymodo> it's an emoticon symbolizing the lighthearted nature of my comment
00:28:11 <ZachThibeau> pa_5740: xchat is open-source but the official win32 version is in a license conflict, since zed isn't the original author he isn't allowed to change licenses of xchat (in this case the win32 build) he made it a shareware build and refused to share his patches for the win32 build, thus it's a complete violation of the gpl which it's licensed under
00:28:42 <pa_5740> does that mean there's trouble on your end?
00:29:05 <pa_5740> also, how would I get into the FFmpeg chat?
00:29:22 <sar3th> pa_5740: as i said, type /join #ffmpeg
00:29:27 <ZachThibeau> so my fork was necessary, I'll be trying to maintain a build where it will equal the official xchat win32 build but maintain it's status of the gnu gpl
00:29:34 <sar3th> and no, no problems on our end with pchat pa_5740
00:29:52 <pa_5740> I know what was said, but I don't know if /join #ffmpeg was a password or not.
00:30:07 <pa_5740> I'm sorry if I was ignorant.
00:30:09 <ZachThibeau> no it isn't it's a command to join a specific channel
00:30:11 <sar3th> if you type it, your client will join the channel #ffmpeg
00:32:41 <pa_5740> so I type /join # ffmpeg in the bottom box and put a nickname in the top and I'm good to go?
00:32:55 <sar3th> no, you just type /join #ffmpeg
00:33:07 <sar3th> and then you will join the channel #ffmpeg under the name pa_5740
00:33:21 <sar3th> you will get another tab on top of your client's windows
00:33:24 <sar3th> *-s
00:33:27 <qwertymodo> if you want to chang your nick you type /nick newnickgoeshere
00:33:35 <sar3th> where it currently says #portableapps
00:33:45 <sar3th> so you can be in two channels simultaneously
00:34:05 <pa_5740> Okay, thanks for your help with this! I'm sorry for being trouble with this.
00:34:16 <qwertymodo> irc takes some getting used to... I'm still figuring it out myself
00:34:50 <pa_5740> sar3th & qwertymodo, are you in the forums?
00:35:01 <qwertymodo> yes
00:35:20 <pa_5740> Oop, I forgot I'd already asked you that qwertymodo. Sorry.
00:35:33 <qwertymodo> no problem
00:35:53 <sar3th> yes pa_5740, i'm on the forums as well (even though i rarely visit them)
00:37:48 <pa_5740> Alright, I'll see if I can get on the forums, and after a little more looking into this, I'll post my results on the forums (granted of course, the people I talk to give me permission to divulge such details).
00:38:58 <pa_5740> Because I do have details concerning mp3, MPEG-2, MPEG-4 & H.264.
00:39:09 <qwertymodo> on an unrelated note ZachThibeau how's VBA-M lately? I haven't used it since I switched to VBAgx for the Wii
00:39:20 <pa_5740> Which I hope aren't useless.
00:39:50 <qwertymodo> cus there's just something about playing on an actual console...
00:41:45 <qwertymodo> and pa_5740 I'm sure that anything you find out will be interesting, but definitely ask the ffmpeg devs... you aren't likely to find much else here beyond what you already have
00:42:43 <pa_5740> Thanks qwertymodo!
00:43:19 *** ZachThibeau_ (~ZachThibe@unaffiliated/zachthibeau) has joined #portableapps
00:43:39 <qwertymodo> but I know with things like MPEG-2, I was setting up a friend's computer from scratch w/Windows XP OEM, and out of the box VLC wouldn't play DVD's until I installed the DVD decoder from the gfx card driver disc
00:44:39 <pa_5740> That's odd, I thought that VLC came with a DVD decoder.
00:45:07 <pa_5740> Which of course may have it's own legal problems, but I don't know.
00:45:15 <qwertymodo> so did I which is why when WMP wouldn't play DVDs I installed VLC but it wouldn't either
00:45:50 <qwertymodo> then I installed the DVD decoder that came with the gfx card and presto both WMP and VLC could play DVDs
00:46:29 <qwertymodo> howdy ZachThibeau_
00:46:48 *** ZachThibeau has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
00:47:42 <pa_5740> Just out of curiosity, +GizmoBot has gone and said "ZachThibeau is the main developer of PChat and is a developer with PortableApps.com" twice.
00:47:56 <pa_5740> Is this some manner of advertising?
00:49:01 *** ZachThibeau_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
00:49:56 <pa_5740> Was there a Zachthibeau impersonator here?
00:50:13 <qwertymodo> his connection probably dropped or something
00:50:24 <Gizmokid2005> pa_5740: it's because if you look, he joined twice in a row
00:50:34 <Gizmokid2005> because of freenode's new way of assigning hostmasks
00:50:48 <Gizmokid2005> he joined with the wrong host, then parted to change hosts by the server, and then rejoined
00:50:50 <Gizmokid2005> in quick succession
00:51:08 <pa_5740> Huh, I guess I should have looked a little closer.
00:53:01 <qwertymodo> I've had my connection go out on me and get logged out/back in several times and you look and there's a qwertymodo, qwertymodo1, qwertymodo2, etc all in the room at the same time until the "ghosts" time out
00:53:21 <Gizmokid2005> qwertymodo: yeah, but it's a different issue
00:53:33 <pa_5740> Ok, before I go, is there anything else I should about the legal topics discussed here?
00:54:37 <pa_5740> I should have said "Ok, before I go, is there anything else I should know about the legal topics discussed here?".
00:54:50 *** SrgSiler|AFK is now known as SergentSiler
00:55:44 <pa_5740> Awww, now I can't say he's AFK!
00:56:15 <pa_5740> Just some addtional humor.
00:58:04 <pa_5740> Awwww, now the crickets are here! (sniff)
01:00:45 <pa_5740> Well, I must be off now. Good-bye!
01:02:19 *** pa_5740 has parted #portableapps (None)
01:04:37 *** pa_2604 (48a0b04a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.160.176.74) has joined #portableapps
01:05:07 <pa_2604> Pardon my asking this, but what is public logging?
01:06:32 <sar3th> it means all messages in here are logged: http://nascent-project.org/irc/logs
01:08:00 <pa_2604> I ask this because the page that shows up before the main chat page that I'm in now says that there is to be no public logging.
01:08:52 <pa_2604> My copying down the details of these chats I have with you guys isn't violating that is it?
01:09:54 <pa_2604> FYI, I'm pa_5740
01:14:40 *** ptmb has quit (Quit: Leaving)
01:16:22 <pa_2604> I don't mean to be impatient, but may I have a response to my previous question? I only have a few minutes to do this.
01:17:02 <qwertymodo> if you're being told that a chat isn't logged that just means it isn't being done, not that you can't
01:17:41 <qwertymodo> but this channel is logged so you don't have to
01:18:10 <qwertymodo> just go to the link sar3th posted and it's all there
01:19:10 <pa_2604> So I can copy down the details of these chats? I'd download the chats, but they are kind of big and I only need a small portion of it.
01:27:17 <pa_2604> May I have a response please?
01:32:02 <pa_2604> Gizmokid2005: May I have a response to my question please?
01:35:11 <pa_2604> Anybody?
01:37:02 <Gizmokid2005> pa_2604: yes
01:37:07 <Gizmokid2005> you can copy/download the chats as you wish
01:37:09 <Gizmokid2005> they are public
01:37:59 <pa_2604> Thank you! Sorry for be impatient, but as I said I don't have a lot have time.
01:38:25 <pa_2604> Bye!
01:39:09 *** pa_2604 has parted #portableapps (None)
01:46:57 *** vf2nsr (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/vf2nsr) has joined #portableapps
01:56:39 *** vf2nsr_ (~chatzilla@cpe-72-224-64-76.maine.res.rr.com) has joined #portableapps
01:57:12 *** vf2nsr_ has quit (Client Quit)
01:59:52 *** vf2nsr has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
02:12:40 *** mtthw92 (~mtthw92@71-20-22-1.war.clearwire-wmx.net) has joined #portableapps
02:19:36 *** mtthw92 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
02:20:59 *** mtthw92 (~mtthw92@71-20-22-1.war.clearwire-wmx.net) has joined #portableapps
02:21:08 *** SergentSiler is now known as SrgSiler|AFK
02:21:14 *** ZachThibeau (~ZachThibe@unaffiliated/zachthibeau) has joined #portableapps
02:25:22 *** ZachThibeau has quit (Client Quit)
02:25:50 *** ZachThibeau (~ZachThibe@unaffiliated/zachthibeau) has joined #portableapps
02:26:30 *** ZachThibeau has quit (Client Quit)
03:03:29 *** Kafkarudo (~irssi@r186-48-2-163.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) has joined #portableapps
03:03:52 *** Kafkarudo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
03:06:32 *** gluxon has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
03:17:40 *** OliverK (~WifiWomba@unaffiliated/oliverk) has joined #portableapps
03:31:09 *** auscompgeek (~aucg@firefox/community/auscompgeek) has joined #portableapps
04:42:25 *** iHavezMyBirdo (~Acer@c-76-114-13-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #portableapps
04:42:36 <iHavezMyBirdo> Didn't even know this existed.
04:42:55 <qwertymodo> by "this" you mean...?
04:43:03 <iHavezMyBirdo> Channel.
04:43:54 <iHavezMyBirdo> Eh, so I asked a question three days ago on the forums and no response. "Hey, I just have a quick question.
04:43:54 <iHavezMyBirdo> So, first I open up Google Chrome Portable. Then, while Google Chrome Portable is still running, I run the Chrome from the local Chrome. The local Chrome does not have the portable settings, bookmarks, etc. It's all the machine's stuff. Is having them both running at the same time safe?"
04:44:42 <qwertymodo> I don't know about Chrome specifically, but in general it isn't a good idea
04:44:56 <iHavezMyBirdo> Okay.
04:45:00 <iHavezMyBirdo> o.O
04:45:32 <auscompgeek> I believe they'll work side by side.
04:45:52 <auscompgeek> Try running them the other way around.
04:46:00 <iHavezMyBirdo> Loading the local copy first?
04:46:05 <auscompgeek> If GCP complains, then don't do it
04:46:07 <auscompgeek> Yeah.
04:47:22 *** OliverK is now known as OliverK|Away
04:47:51 <iHavezMyBirdo> Yup, both have their own settings, etc.
04:48:49 <auscompgeek> Hm, if doing that would cause conflicts, then GCP wouldn't have been set up like that.
04:49:25 <auscompgeek> Hm, oh, yeah, Chrome edits a registry value, for Google Update...
04:49:26 <auscompgeek> :/
04:49:40 <iHavezMyBirdo> o.o That's bad for this?
04:50:01 <auscompgeek> Maybe...
04:50:11 <auscompgeek> It's changed back once GCP closes.
04:50:34 <qwertymodo> if there are global settings i.e. registry settings involved, then you shouldn't run them together
04:50:51 <iHavezMyBirdo> Well I won't do so just to be safe..
04:50:58 <qwertymodo> because then both instances are reading and/or writing to that same setting
04:56:59 *** pa_5446 (d318b1b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.211.24.177.178) has joined #portableapps
04:57:06 <pa_5446> hello
04:57:25 <pa_5446> i have a question regarding PortableApps
04:58:12 <auscompgeek> Ask away.
04:58:31 <pa_5446> once i have downloaded the .exe platform file, where should i run it. Install into pendrive of pc?
04:58:48 <pa_5446> the USB i meant
05:00:07 <pa_5446> hello .... anyone?
05:01:03 <OliverK|Away> yeah, install it to the pen drive
05:01:14 <OliverK|Away> what's the drive letter?
05:01:49 <pa_5446> H:
05:02:03 <OliverK|Away> okay, just install it to the h; drive
05:02:11 <OliverK|Away> H:* and you'll be one your way
05:03:15 <pa_5446> k dude. thanx a million
05:03:19 <pa_5446> :)
05:03:25 <OliverK|Away> no problem, have a good night
05:03:26 *** pa_5446 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
05:22:03 *** mtthw92 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
05:33:13 *** n8chavez (~n8chavez@ip72-223-62-157.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #portableapps
05:33:16 *** n8chavez has parted #portableapps (None)
05:40:16 *** sar3th is now known as sar3th|away
05:48:11 *** iHavezMyBirdo has parted #portableapps (None)
05:48:40 *** auscompgeek has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
05:52:52 *** OliverK|Away has quit (Quit: so long and thanks for all the fish)
07:17:08 *** MaienM (~MaienM-F@unaffiliated/maienm) has joined #portableapps
07:17:08 <GizmoBot> MaienM is MaienM. He is the developer of The Mana World Portable.
07:17:08 <GizmoBot> MaienM is MaienM. He is the developer of The Mana World Portable.
08:03:33 *** auscompgeek (~aucg@firefox/community/auscompgeek) has joined #portableapps
08:47:26 *** benedikt93 (~benedikt9@unaffiliated/benedikt93) has joined #portableapps
09:25:16 *** cewbakka (~cewbakka@port-92-198-63-54.static.qsc.de) has joined #portableapps
09:27:03 *** cewbakka has quit (Client Quit)
10:42:07 *** qwertymodo1 (~Ben@216.115.8.130) has joined #portableapps
10:42:45 *** qwertymodo1 has quit (Client Quit)
10:45:35 *** qwertymodo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
11:55:24 *** benedikt93 has quit (Quit: Bye ;))
12:16:17 *** MaienM_ (~MaienM-F@unaffiliated/maienm) has joined #portableapps
12:16:32 *** MaienM has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
12:50:20 *** rouilj1 (~rouilj@pool-74-104-157-242.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) has joined #portableapps
13:09:21 *** benedikt93 (~benedikt9@unaffiliated/benedikt93) has joined #portableapps
13:42:09 *** shanet (dad7c936@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.215.201.54) has joined #portableapps
13:52:16 *** MaienM_ is now known as MaienM|Gone
13:54:33 <shanet> wow. u ppl sit here all day waiting for an almost completely inactive IRC to do something? wow.
13:54:54 <Gizmokid2005> shanet: ?
13:55:02 <shanet> hello?
13:55:10 <Gizmokid2005> hi
13:55:23 <shanet> hey
13:55:48 <shanet> does it get boring waiting 4 a person 2 come along and talk?
13:56:09 <Gizmokid2005> most of the people in here are idling, or not even here...some of us just have an IRC client running in the background.
13:56:37 <Gizmokid2005> myself, I work at a computer all day long for my job, from home, and I've got two monitors, so I'm usually around...and not really /waiting/ for someone to come around.
13:56:48 <shanet> yeah i no, i wouldnt sit here just watching te screen, but just having it up, getting in the way
13:56:56 <shanet> wow
13:57:00 <shanet> what do you do?
13:57:12 <Gizmokid2005> telecommute :)
13:57:21 <shanet> your own business?
13:58:06 <Gizmokid2005> nope, I wish
13:58:13 <shanet> haha
13:58:24 <shanet> do u mind me asking who you work 4?
13:58:37 <Gizmokid2005> an ISP in Michigan
13:58:43 <Gizmokid2005> I run our billing system and reporting systems.
13:58:49 <shanet> oh. wow
13:58:56 <shanet> sounds interesting.
13:59:07 <Gizmokid2005> it can be
13:59:11 <Gizmokid2005> it's also endlessly frustrating at times
13:59:11 <shanet> so michigan is on the west coast of the US, right?
13:59:18 <shanet> yeah.
13:59:22 <Gizmokid2005> nope, East...but /technically/ the midwest
13:59:28 <shanet> I'm from Australia
13:59:30 <shanet> ok.
13:59:49 <shanet> So it'd be about 10 am over there?
13:59:57 <Gizmokid2005> pretty much :)
14:00:06 <shanet> cool :)
14:00:16 <shanet> im so tired
14:00:31 <shanet> i pulled an all nighter.
14:01:22 <shanet> I thought that the old version of portableapp conversion was the better way. I thought that the launcher generator out now is just for people who don't really want to distribute.
14:02:15 <shanet> I thought that if I was to distribute i'd have to learn NSIS or something. So whilst I was probably doing it all correctly, I did not have the correct launcher generator.
14:02:30 <shanet> it was a long night.
14:02:48 <Gizmokid2005> haha
14:02:49 <Gizmokid2005> yeah
14:02:55 <shanet> But now im happy now that I know i dont have to learn another programming lang
14:03:02 <shanet> Im learning C++ at the moment
14:03:04 <Gizmokid2005> the new PAL (PortableApps.com Launcer) is the "new" way of making launchers for applications
14:03:26 <Gizmokid2005> NSIS is really quite easy...if you know how to program, at least the basics, it's second nature basically
14:03:29 <shanet> yeah. i thought it was the easy way and less stable
14:03:40 <shanet> I am a script kiddie.
14:03:41 <Gizmokid2005> just look at how other launchers work, their source, and it's pretty easy
14:03:44 <shanet> i can batch
14:03:55 <shanet> Thats exactly what I did.
14:04:06 <Gizmokid2005> I got pretty shafted though, the first major launcher that I ever worked on was the most complicated launcher that PortableApps.com has to date...
14:04:11 <shanet> I had launcher templates, I have 4 GB of portablapps
14:04:17 *** MaienM|Gone has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
14:04:27 <Gizmokid2005> I've got about 6GB worth, but some of that is just data for them.
14:04:30 <shanet> I was looking at the firefox scripts, google chrome,
14:04:35 <shanet> yeah. Same here.
14:05:01 <shanet> What I have done is just created a template and customized it for my own use.
14:05:26 <shanet> Then I just copy and paste it as I want to make something portable
14:05:34 <shanet> change all the data
14:05:56 <shanet> and I can get a portableapp knocked out in half an hour without any distractions.
14:06:13 <Gizmokid2005> yeah...it's pretty easy
14:06:16 <shanet> And until a few hours ago i thought i was doing it the less stable way.
14:06:17 <Gizmokid2005> that's basically what the PAL is for
14:06:21 <shanet> yep
14:06:30 <Gizmokid2005> just create a launcher.ini with the appropriate info, and voila, launcher haven
14:06:37 <shanet> I have 3 launchers up at the moment
14:06:43 <shanet> *portableappa
14:06:56 <shanet> that are legally up
14:07:11 <shanet> I have done photoshop CS3,
14:07:20 <shanet> that was actually fairly easy
14:07:55 <shanet> Dont know if youve ever heard of BumpTop?
14:08:06 <shanet> I made that portable too. Just a matter of the appdata
14:08:10 <Gizmokid2005> Just remember, you can redistribute anything that's CS3, or really commerically licensed.
14:08:23 <shanet> yeah i know.
14:08:27 <Gizmokid2005> you can use it for yourself, but even then the legality is questionable depending on the app
14:08:30 <shanet> i havent redist it.
14:08:34 <shanet> yeah
14:08:40 <Gizmokid2005> just making sure...you'd be surprised at the number of people who think otherwise
14:08:55 <shanet> well technically, they say we cant redist the software. Thats ok.
14:09:10 <shanet> And we're not allowed to modify the software.
14:09:13 <shanet> Thats ok.
14:09:32 <shanet> Because all we are doing is modifying the operating environment around it.
14:09:46 <shanet> I see it sorta like a bubble with a pearl inside.
14:10:06 <Gizmokid2005> yeah, just remember, most companies don't see it that way.
14:10:30 <shanet> We can do anything to the bubble to be able to see/touch the pearl, but we are not allowed to change the pearl inside.
14:10:32 <shanet> yeah
14:10:40 <shanet> thats true.
14:11:13 <shanet> But we technically dont edit their software, and as long as we don't redistribute it, we have fouled nothing against their EULA.
14:11:31 <Gizmokid2005> yeah, if you don't redist, they'll never know
14:12:01 <shanet> The only way I can think of them stopping it is by stating you can not convert it, or you must install it to the following foleder;.
14:12:38 <shanet> But that doesnt matter. ill never redist it. I just did it, created the installer then deleted it.
14:12:51 <shanet> Do you have any projects up?
14:13:23 <Gizmokid2005> Songbird and KVIrc are my two projects
14:13:28 <Gizmokid2005> Songbird being the most complex to date
14:13:49 <shanet> Ok. I think ive heard about songbird being a pain in the a***
14:14:41 <shanet> I dont think i have spoken to you before, but the person doing songbird has told me. So unless there is someone else doing soiongbird as well...
14:15:02 <Gizmokid2005> yeah....took me a while to get the launcher working right...not only are there registry entries, folders to move, and hex file editing, there's also sqlite editing, etc...
14:15:09 <Gizmokid2005> Ryan McCue was working on it previously, before 1.0
14:15:18 <Gizmokid2005> I took it over and got it going.
14:15:23 <shanet> So what does songbird want out of you>? appdata? registry? left arm and right leg?
14:15:26 <shanet> ok
14:15:38 <shanet> hex editing? what would you do that for?
14:15:39 <Gizmokid2005> Left arm, left leg, right kidney, and my first 3 kids actually
14:15:51 <shanet> haha.
14:15:53 <shanet> shame
14:16:13 <shanet> actually I read that JTH donated a kidney to his father i think it is?
14:16:15 <Gizmokid2005> but I fought a good fight and got away with only a few scratches, tears, and lots of time.
14:16:36 <shanet> ha. next time take in the buzookas!
14:16:50 <Gizmokid2005> Hahah, hopefully there won't be a NEXT time for something like that. lol
14:16:56 <Gizmokid2005> Next on my list is a VNC viewer
14:17:03 <shanet> cant firefox take songbird down? or thunderbird?
14:17:07 <shanet> ok.
14:17:12 <shanet> hey i got it.
14:17:17 <Gizmokid2005> I was going to tackle UltraVNC, but they seem to be unresponsive, so I'm looking at possibly finishing up TightVNC
14:17:25 <Gizmokid2005> what do you mean, "take songbird down?"
14:17:39 <shanet> dont worru
14:17:42 <shanet> *worry
14:17:57 <shanet> I dont really like ultraVNC that much
14:18:05 <shanet> it doesnt work for me
14:18:19 <shanet> I prefer backdoor trojans
14:18:20 <shanet> jks
14:18:24 <Gizmokid2005> I've never actually used it.. dbdii407 had worked on TightVNC a long time ago, but never finished it up...so I have a start
14:19:00 <shanet> Thts good. A solid start is always good
14:19:28 <Gizmokid2005> Sometimes.
14:19:31 <shanet> what i need to find out is how to store settings with an app that does not save settings :P
14:19:38 <Gizmokid2005> I had to rewrite Songbird's launcher from scratch
14:19:51 <Gizmokid2005> well, if the app doesn't save settings at all...you can't really..
14:19:51 <shanet> wow. u mean from the coding level?
14:19:59 <Gizmokid2005> but most do, either in the registry or files somewhere
14:20:06 <shanet> i no. thats how much of a pain it is.
14:20:26 <shanet> No, it doesnt even store a single digit of binary :(
14:20:31 <Gizmokid2005> well, I just had to start the launcher over...I pretty much used the FireFox launcher as a base, since Songbird's web browser is built on it, a LOT was similar
14:20:38 <shanet> ill contact the author 1 day
14:20:42 <Gizmokid2005> weird...in the local version does it retain your settings?
14:20:49 <shanet> no
14:21:04 <Gizmokid2005> ahh...then it's an app problem
14:21:21 <shanet> i think the author released it without actually testing it properly
14:21:42 <Gizmokid2005> that happens
14:21:43 <shanet> yeah. i just knocked it into format for 1 day when i decides to work
14:21:45 <Gizmokid2005> more often than it should
14:21:50 <shanet> shame
14:22:07 <shanet> so are you saying you are writing the launcher from the ground up?
14:22:36 <Gizmokid2005> meh...not so much
14:22:44 <shanet> kk.
14:22:47 <Gizmokid2005> I had to pretty much scrap the previous launcher that was created for songbird
14:22:53 <Gizmokid2005> and modify FireFox's launcher to do what I needed.
14:23:03 <shanet> ok.
14:23:04 <Gizmokid2005> so I didn't have to completely rewrite it...but it was a lot of work
14:23:21 <shanet> Do you know when the platform is gonna be released?
14:24:27 <Gizmokid2005> shanet: if we go from what John said in his blog post, I do believe we should expect it by the end of this weekend....but nobody but he /really/ knows
14:24:52 <shanet> ok. Just really eager to get my hands on it.
14:24:58 <Gizmokid2005> we all are
14:24:58 <shanet> as im sure lots of others are
14:25:12 <shanet> I have got the beta version.
14:25:23 <shanet> beta 4.
14:25:31 <shanet> works seamlessly,
14:25:38 <Gizmokid2005> shanet: beta 5 is what he's working on next: http://portableapps.com/node/24104
14:25:50 <Gizmokid2005> yeah, john is good about releasing stable stuff, even if it is beta
14:26:01 <shanet> But by the sounds of it the next vversion is gonna have other things in it.
14:26:12 <Gizmokid2005> yeah
14:26:18 <Gizmokid2005> there's a lot of stuff yet to be included for the final
14:26:42 <shanet> ok. I thought that was final?
14:27:12 <shanet> i just cant wait
14:27:18 <shanet> wanna sleep the hours off
14:27:38 <Gizmokid2005> haha
14:27:39 <Gizmokid2005> nope
14:27:54 <shanet> oh well
14:29:15 <shanet> if theres 1 thing i must say about JTH its that he likes to make sure things are good before release
14:29:21 <Gizmokid2005> yup
14:30:00 <shanet> and he must secretly enjoy sitting there with portableapps 2.0 beta 5 platform laughing at us and teasing us.
14:30:03 <shanet> nah.
14:30:09 <Gizmokid2005> haha
14:30:11 <Gizmokid2005> sometimes we wonder
14:30:14 <shanet> it just feels like forever
14:30:41 <shanet> it would be saddening to the point of being funny
14:30:55 <shanet> to know he's just sitting there with it finished
14:30:58 <Gizmokid2005> yeah
14:31:03 <shanet> and mking us think its not
14:31:05 <Gizmokid2005> honestly I don't think he is...
14:31:10 <shanet> no
14:31:13 <shanet> neither do i
14:31:13 <Gizmokid2005> but I can't say for sure...pure speculation
14:31:22 <shanet> it would just be funny.
14:31:31 <shanet> haha true
14:31:58 <shanet> well he's a very selfless man. look at what time he has given to portableapps.com
14:32:06 <shanet> and all for fre
14:32:14 <shanet> have you heard of codysafe?
14:33:30 <Gizmokid2005> yes he has..
14:33:33 <Gizmokid2005> and yep, I have.
14:33:35 <Gizmokid2005> never used it though
14:35:05 <shanet> i have reason to believe its portableapps platform remade.
14:35:15 <shanet> its a bit better in some aspects
14:35:52 <shanet> it has the favourite apps on the front then sort of like an all programs thing
14:36:13 <shanet> but they make you pay money for a slight version up.
14:36:22 <shanet> i reckon its a rip,
14:36:34 <Gizmokid2005> it probably is
14:36:43 <Gizmokid2005> but PA.c is OSS
14:36:54 <Gizmokid2005> anyone can do that, if they so desire
14:37:17 <shanet> i no but dont they have to say somewhere where they got it?
14:37:19 <Gizmokid2005> so long as they don't reuse the trademarks
14:37:38 <shanet> they should say original source code from portableapps.com
14:37:43 <shanet> oh well/
14:38:00 <shanet> i have actually downloaded the source for portableapps.com platform.
14:38:13 <shanet> i think ill leave it to those who know what they are doing
14:38:50 <Gizmokid2005> yeah
14:38:52 <Gizmokid2005> same here
14:39:12 <shanet> Do you know what lang the platform is?
14:39:31 <Gizmokid2005> Delphi
14:39:38 <shanet> oh. wow
14:39:50 <shanet> not quite as good as c++ tho...
14:40:00 <shanet> nah its good
14:40:47 <shanet> it was a bit of hunting to find the source for the platform
14:40:53 <Gizmokid2005> yeah
14:42:01 <shanet> uurghhh windows explorer is not responding...
14:45:46 <Gizmokid2005> I hate that
14:45:56 <shanet> yeah
14:46:11 <Gizmokid2005> I love when people try to compare apples to oranges
14:46:23 <Gizmokid2005> or say that Notebooks and netbooks are the same thing and can be compared
14:46:50 <shanet> haha lol
14:47:49 <shanet> i know some1 who reckons hes a hacker coz he opened a batch script and chaged a value'
14:47:51 <Gizmokid2005> and then say it's because I use an apple that I'm wrong
14:48:43 <shanet> he reckons the netbooks use an OS that the company owns like if its an acer netbook that it runs acer OS, and that notebooks run windows
14:49:19 <shanet> have a look at this
14:49:20 <shanet> http://www.lupopensuite.com/base/popular.htm
14:49:32 <Gizmokid2005> yeah, Lupo isn't highly regarded around here.
14:49:41 <shanet> go down to where it says multimedia and choose songbird.
14:49:53 <shanet> yeah i no i dont like it that much
14:50:39 <shanet> looks like lupo is portableapps.com platform as well just without the eject button
14:52:03 <Gizmokid2005> it pretty much is
14:52:08 <Gizmokid2005> most of that stuff links back to us anyways
14:54:19 <shanet> yeah
14:54:48 <shanet> delphi appears to be similar to c.
14:55:03 <shanet> ive got the source and have cracked open main.pas
14:55:13 <Gizmokid2005> yeah
14:55:17 <Gizmokid2005> it's close, but not identical
14:55:28 <shanet> do u no c or delphi?
14:55:45 <Gizmokid2005> Nope
14:55:55 <Gizmokid2005> I'm /trying/ to learn Qt...but just don't have the time to get into it.
14:56:00 <shanet> Delphi:unit main;
14:56:08 <shanet> C++:int main();
14:56:20 <shanet> have u ever looked into it?
14:57:09 <shanet> Comment:// standard form handlers
14:57:16 <shanet> same in delphi and C++
14:57:19 <shanet> use the //
14:57:46 <shanet> anything after thedouble slash on the same line is a comment and the compiler leaves it alone.
14:57:55 <shanet> This is quite interesting actually
14:58:06 <shanet> never heard of Qt
14:59:01 <Gizmokid2005> Qt is a C++ based language
14:59:03 <Gizmokid2005> .g Qt
14:59:03 <GizmoBot> Gizmokid2005: http://qt.nokia.com/products/
15:00:12 <shanet> it seems for the average programmer these days to get by you need to knwo C++ and VB.NET, as well as have a good idea of windows SDK to even get considered
15:00:53 <shanet> ah. widget creation?
15:00:54 <Gizmokid2005> pretty much
15:01:01 <Gizmokid2005> yeah
15:01:07 <Gizmokid2005> Qt is very nice language and SDK
15:01:36 <shanet> i'll stick with learning c++
15:01:55 <Gizmokid2005> once you get C++ down, Qt should be almost second nature
15:01:57 <shanet> i think it has a bit more persuasion on the market
15:02:05 <shanet> i suppose it would be
15:03:20 <shanet> wow. we've been sitting here for over an hour talking. doesnt seem like that long tho
15:03:44 <Gizmokid2005> yep, time flies when you're having fun
15:03:49 <Gizmokid2005> I gotta get motivated here very soon
15:03:53 <shanet> ya lol
15:04:24 <shanet> same here. I should be studying C++. Its not that hard when you get into it.
15:04:50 <shanet> So what do you have to do for your job? sit there and watch data flows?
15:04:59 <shanet> or speeds?
15:05:26 <Gizmokid2005> haha, actually not usually.
15:05:39 <shanet> so what do you watch then?
15:05:41 <Gizmokid2005> I just make sure that all our crons run ok, keep our reporting application going (it's only 10 years old)
15:05:52 <Gizmokid2005> lots of old stuff, so there's always all kinds of maintenance to keep up on
15:05:53 <shanet> ok. lol'
15:05:54 <Gizmokid2005> keeps me busy
15:06:01 <shanet> oh yeah
15:06:07 <shanet> sounds fun
15:06:22 <Gizmokid2005> sometimes
15:06:39 <shanet> bet it could also be frustrating at times
15:07:04 <shanet> i did some work at my school over the school christmas holidays.
15:07:32 <shanet> I was working with my twin brother and best friend in the IT dept just the three of us.
15:07:43 <shanet> we were fitting in computers.
15:08:28 <shanet> We are really good friends with our principal, so he asked us if we would like to do some work. Very good pay for my age.
15:09:13 <shanet> I prob got bout 12 - 15 dollars an hour, whit is pretty damn good compared to 8 - 10 dollars an hour
15:09:53 <Gizmokid2005> yep
15:13:35 <shanet> could I ask for a bit of help on a project i'm doing plz?
15:14:35 <Gizmokid2005> you can ask all you want shanet :)
15:14:41 <Gizmokid2005> I have to run for a few, but I'll be back
15:15:09 <shanet> kk
15:16:43 <shanet> The project is MapWindowGis.
15:17:06 <shanet> I have it all set up to downlaod the files and install them
15:20:11 <shanet> it worked in a previous application, now its downloading it in about 1 second when it should take about 10 minutes and leaves a file in the app directory.
15:20:24 <shanet> This is in the installer btw
15:21:30 <shanet> http://pastebin.com/LzqP0sSG
15:29:51 <shanet> /away
15:30:10 *** shanet is now known as shanet|away
15:31:40 *** shanet|away has quit (Quit: Page closed)
15:32:21 *** shanet|away (dad7c936@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.215.201.54) has joined #portableapps
15:32:37 <shanet|away> sorry, just a bit of a prob with FF
15:33:16 *** shanet|away has quit (Client Quit)
15:49:05 *** shanet (dad7c936@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.215.201.54) has joined #portableapps
15:49:51 <shanet> Gizmokid2005: are you still available?
15:49:57 <Gizmokid2005> yes
15:50:44 <shanet> ok. Here is the URL to my installer.ini file:
15:50:44 <shanet> http://pastebin.com/LzqP0sSG
15:51:08 <shanet> What I am trying to do is download the file and extract it to App/MapWindow
15:51:41 <shanet> However I can not use 7-zip to open it, uniextract to extract it or totalcommander to open it.
15:52:09 <Gizmokid2005> if it's just a standard zip, you should be able to
15:52:22 <shanet> So I have resorted to uploading the program files myself as a temporary fix (someone requested this a fair while ago).
15:52:39 <shanet> It is not a standard zip. it is an executable setup file.
15:52:43 <Gizmokid2005> I don't use online installers though, so I can't really help you.
15:53:40 <shanet> ok. I have got the offline installer up and all, its just a mega upload and download. Ive resorted to using filezilla to upload it (i didnt realise you could do that till today).
15:54:13 <shanet> So what does songbird want you to do to make it portable?
15:54:29 <Gizmokid2005> look at the launcher...there's a lotg
15:54:45 <shanet> doing that now :P
15:55:52 <shanet> Did you have to do the download page for the official release or did John do that for you?
15:56:19 <Gizmokid2005> John didn it for me, but I had to provide the list of features and the blurb at the top
15:57:01 <shanet> ok. i hate doing the blurb :(
15:57:31 <Gizmokid2005> me too
15:57:35 <Gizmokid2005> I had to do it TWICE
15:57:37 <Gizmokid2005> so :P
15:57:44 <shanet> thats the only part I hate. when you have to do it for the help file that goes with the soft, i usually sorta stick with whats there.
15:57:49 <shanet> y?
15:57:56 <Gizmokid2005> one for Songbird and one for KVIrc
15:58:12 <shanet> ok. I had 2 do it more than twice then.
15:58:51 <Gizmokid2005> I was working on RSSOwl, but that uses IE as it's rendering engine so I had to drop that
16:01:02 <shanet> once for photoshop, once for bumptop, once for codeblocks, once for mapwindowGIS, once for cubic explorer portable, once for something called aquasnap, once for a keylogger i made portable for a friend :P, once for something called RBTRAY , once for FPS Creator, once for aerosnap, once for aeropeek, once for - oh wait, thats it
16:01:26 <shanet> i think
16:01:38 <Gizmokid2005> you didn't have to write blurbs for them though :P
16:01:49 <shanet> so thats a grand total of 11
16:02:18 <shanet> yes i did. u no the help pages that you send out with the portableapp?
16:02:25 <Gizmokid2005> you don't HAVE to :P
16:02:32 <Gizmokid2005> if they're personal or for a friend
16:02:34 <Gizmokid2005> you don't have to do that
16:02:41 <shanet> lets say I am now very accustomed to Johns HTMLing.
16:02:50 *** ZachThibeau (~ZachThibe@unaffiliated/zachthibeau) has joined #portableapps
16:02:50 <GizmoBot> ZachThibeau is the main developer of PChat and is a developer with PortableApps.com
16:03:20 <shanet> I have 2 for my friend coz hes a computer idiot knows nothing, and for myself you can rule those out.
16:03:30 <shanet> that still leaves 5 or 6?
16:03:43 <shanet> Hi Zach
16:04:46 <shanet> i havent released many of them yet tho
16:04:48 <shanet> https://sourceforge.net/projects/shanet/files/
16:04:54 <shanet> these are what i have done
16:05:01 <shanet> *finished
16:05:09 <shanet> just 4, nd a theme file.
16:05:31 <shanet> So that leaves me with 5 i had 2 do.
16:05:39 <shanet> but i still hate them
16:06:32 <shanet> I think my best work was with the codeblocks one, but i have 2 take that down
16:06:34 <shanet> :(
16:07:02 <shanet> didnt realise that Chris Morgan had done codeblocks already even tho i searched.
16:07:13 <shanet> didnt go to the right pages
16:07:17 <ZachThibeau> actually yours didn't handle much, it didn't handle the personalities function of codeblocks, it was incomplete
16:07:43 <shanet> ill take ur word for it
16:07:54 *** benedikt93 has quit (Quit: Bye ;))
16:08:16 <ZachThibeau> don't take my word, take Chris's word.
16:08:25 <shanet> but im just saying that my HTML file was probably the one I spent the most time on out of all of my HTML files for portableapps
16:08:31 <shanet> ok.
16:08:57 <shanet> So you are developing it now then, could I ask if you know when it will be up?
16:09:06 <ZachThibeau> when it's done
16:09:15 <shanet> no estimates?
16:09:42 <ZachThibeau> I'm using pal for this one like you did but I have to add custom code to it to make it handle the other stuff codeblocks does, so no real estimates at this time
16:09:53 <ZachThibeau> I'm hoping sometime before the end of this month for sure
16:09:55 <shanet> ok. thanks
16:10:06 *** ptmb (~PTMblogge@a81-84-170-85.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #portableapps
16:10:27 <shanet> I was trying to figure out that custom code thing. i cant find anywhere where it tells you what is included in it.
16:11:13 <shanet> when you say codeblocks profiles, do you mean the different compilers?
16:12:30 <ZachThibeau> it's there it's just really easy to understand if you aren't a programmer and personalities are other stuff related to codeblocks not just compilers brb
16:12:53 <shanet> ok.
16:13:45 <shanet> sorry for my ignorance with codeblocks. I'm starting to learn C++ and wanted a compiler to take with me. I didnt realise that Chris had already made his one, even tho i searched for it.
16:14:21 <ZachThibeau> no worries and brb again, got to run to the store
16:15:07 <shanet> kk thx
16:25:46 <ZachThibeau> and I'm back, I wouldn't call it arrogance more or less a misunderstanding
16:27:33 <shanet> Zach, when youdeveloped Pchat, what language did you use?
16:28:14 <shanet>
16:28:21 <ZachThibeau> I didn't code it entirely it's a fork of an existing program called XChat
16:28:37 <ZachThibeau> but it's written in C using the gtk toolkit as the gui library
16:28:54 <shanet> So you actually edited the code?
16:29:17 <ZachThibeau> yeah, added my own changes and soon introducing my own features
16:29:25 <shanet> Ok. Thanks.
16:30:04 <shanet> I am actually learning C++ now, how long did it take you to learn C to a point where you could create a program?
16:32:11 <ZachThibeau> well to be honest I started by hacking at other peoples code and looking into each function and adding my own functions and improvements to the program and then I eventually started to code my own
16:33:20 <shanet> Ok, but how long did that take? I am learning off "Teach yourself C++ in 21 Days", which is sort of out dated, but 98%of the data is good.
16:37:07 <ZachThibeau> well it's different for everybody
16:37:07 <ZachThibeau> for me it took me a couple of months
16:37:24 <shanet> kk thx
16:37:25 *** shanet has quit (Quit: Page closed)
16:37:58 *** shanet (~Shane@218-215-201-54.people.net.au) has joined #portableapps
16:38:27 *** shanet has quit (Client Quit)
16:39:11 *** shanet (~Shane@218-215-201-54.people.net.au) has joined #portableapps
16:40:03 <shanet> Gizmokid2005: I have got songbird running, and it is extremely slow.
16:40:22 <shanet> Gizmokid2005: scratch that, its not responding :P
16:43:54 <shanet> it really is built around firefox isn't it.
16:45:20 <Bensawsome> shanet it could be ur usb drive
16:45:27 <Bensawsome> because when im running it on mine it runs fine
16:45:35 <Bensawsome> well
16:45:37 <Bensawsome> mostly fine
16:46:45 <shanet> ok
16:46:54 <shanet> maybe just coz its first startup
16:47:07 <Bensawsome> maybe
16:48:16 <shanet> ZachThibeau: Could I suggest something 4 Pchat?
16:49:04 <Gizmokid2005> shanet: songbird is huge and it will take a while to startup
16:49:07 <Gizmokid2005> nothing we can change about that.
16:49:17 *** pa_5740 (48a0ea64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.160.234.100) has joined #portableapps
16:49:23 <shanet> kk
16:49:39 <shanet> thought so but just wanted 2 run it by u just in case
16:49:47 <shanet> man it looks like a killer app
16:49:48 <pa_5740> Hello again to all!
16:49:56 <pa_5740> I have a question.
16:49:56 <Gizmokid2005> yeah
16:49:59 <shanet> so wats the sqlite3 thing do?
16:50:02 <Gizmokid2005> it is, it's a good app.
16:50:10 <Gizmokid2005> shanet: that's how songbird stores it's music library, in sqlite files
16:50:17 <Gizmokid2005> it has to update paths in them for drive letter changes
16:50:20 <Gizmokid2005> ask away pa_5740
16:50:28 <shanet> ok.
16:51:04 <shanet> pa_5740: lets hear it :)
16:51:52 <pa_5740> Remember the thing I had mentioned yesterday about information on mp3, H.264, MPEG-2, MPEG-4?
16:52:04 <pa_5740> Where would I post that in the forum?
16:52:35 <pa_5740> Because I do have a account now under the same name I'm using now.
16:53:45 <Gizmokid2005> probably general discussion pa_5740
16:53:59 <Gizmokid2005> pa_5740: here would work too: http://portableapps.com/forums/development/portable_app_development
16:54:03 *** Anillhuman (52151562@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.21.21.98) has joined #portableapps
16:54:07 <Anillhuman> Hello?
16:54:15 <Gizmokid2005> hello Anillhuman
16:55:28 <Anillhuman> hi , I just downloaded and installed portablr apps and now when i run it there are no apps in it, not even firefox :( tryed refrshing did not work
16:56:02 <shanet> Chanced are you downloaded the platform only. Are you saying you downloaded the suite?
16:56:38 <pa_5740> I think I'll put it in general discussion. I should have it there in about fifteen minutes or so, just so everyone knows.
16:57:11 <shanet> Can I suggest you click the following link to get the Lite Suite:http://downloads.sourceforge.net/portableapps/PortableApps.com_Suite_Light_Setup_1.6.1_English.exe
16:57:16 <shanet> http://downloads.sourceforge.net/portableapps/PortableApps.com_Suite_Light_Setup_1.6.1_English.exe
16:57:48 <pa_5740> Wait a minute, would here be better? http://portableapps.com/forums/other/off_topic
16:57:51 <shanet> This is everything the standard (top) suite has, but in place of openoffice.org, you have AbiWord portable.
16:58:18 *** Anillhuman has quit (Client Quit)
16:58:33 <Gizmokid2005> pa_5740: no
16:58:56 <pa_5740> OK, I just thought I'd ask.
17:00:16 <pa_5740> On second thought, look in general discussion in about 20 min. I have I must attend to first.
17:00:25 <pa_5740> Be back in a minute or two!
17:02:39 <pa_5740> I should have said "I have something I must attend to first". Sorry.
17:03:24 *** cxxwaves (~cxxwaves@126.173-227-89.dsl.completel.net) has joined #portableapps
17:04:31 *** cxxwaves has parted #portableapps (None)
17:06:08 <pa_5740> I know this might be a dumb question, but how does one make a line using HTML code?
17:06:22 <pa_5740> I used to know, but not anymore.
17:07:22 <shanet> pa_5740: What do you mean? Do you mean show text?
17:08:04 <ZachThibeau> shanet: it's not polite to initiate private messages without permission, it is considered rude by me unwanted
17:08:21 <Gizmokid2005> shanet: 'tis also against the rules in the topic
17:08:33 <shanet> Ok. Sorry for that
17:08:37 <pa_5740> No, there's a certain piece of code that when put into a document, generates a line.
17:08:59 <pa_5740> So you don't have to put in dashes. like this, ---------------------
17:09:02 <shanet> pa_5740: Could you please be more descriptive?
17:09:32 <pa_5740> I'm trying to, but my memory on this is a little foggy. Sorry.
17:09:39 <shanet> ZachThibeau: I'm sorry, I just wanted to try and keep this thread less cluttered.
17:09:44 <Gizmokid2005> pa_5740: http://www.basictips.com/article_52.shtml
17:09:59 <Gizmokid2005> you have to use the tablecell element
17:09:59 <shanet> pa_5740: That's ok. I will be here for a while, I hope.
17:10:32 <shanet> Oh. A horisontal line?
17:10:43 <ZachThibeau> shanet: to answer your question I've done some new updates for PChat that I'll be releasing as a test that has fixed the built in tray icon
17:10:51 <shanet> I thought you meant an empty lin of text
17:10:59 <pa_5740> Yes something like this, ------------------------------------------
17:11:28 <shanet> ZachThibeau: Ok. Thankyou for that.
17:11:32 <shanet> Ok.
17:11:54 <pa_5740> Only it's set up differently so if somebody zooms in and out of a page, theoretically, the line should look the same.
17:11:55 <Gizmokid2005> pa_5740: this will help as well.
17:11:57 <Gizmokid2005> http://www.fbe.unsw.edu.au/Learning/html/ref/horlines.htm
17:12:33 <shanet> I beliece the answer you are looking for is <hr>
17:13:38 <pa_5740> Unfortunately, it's not one of the commands supported.
17:14:00 <pa_5740> I tried putting it in, but it's not a supported HTML command.
17:14:17 <Gizmokid2005> pa_5740: it is: http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_hr.asp
17:14:25 *** rouilj1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
17:14:32 <Gizmokid2005> not sure what you're using, but it's a valid HTML4 command.
17:15:08 <pa_5740> Allowed HTML tags: <a> <em> <strong> <cite> <code> <ul> <ol> <li> <dl> <dt> <dd> <pre> <s> <blockquote>
17:15:14 <Gizmokid2005> you mean on the forums
17:15:16 <shanet> It is. I just tested it in a quick knock up file. It works fine.
17:15:18 <Gizmokid2005> you can't in there...
17:15:27 <Gizmokid2005> pa_5740: drupal uses filtered HTML
17:15:32 <Gizmokid2005> only certain tags are allowed
17:15:37 <Gizmokid2005> those you listed.
17:15:46 <shanet> Just make sure you include '<br>' and '<p>' where appropriate to tell the computer that you want it put on a new line.
17:15:55 <shanet> oh.
17:16:18 <pa_5740> OK, I hope I didn't break the site rules by copying the text from this site.
17:16:23 <shanet> Why not use underscores?
17:16:31 <pa_5740> I'd hate to be banned.
17:16:31 <shanet> give the ______________ effect
17:16:56 <shanet> you wont be banned for an accident.
17:17:10 <shanet> Just use underscores.
17:17:11 <Gizmokid2005> and copying pasting from the site to here is allowable
17:17:51 <pa_5740> Whew! Thanks!
17:18:16 <pa_5740> Although I am aware of issues like copyright.
17:18:35 <pa_5740> So I really can't say I did this unknowingly.
17:19:50 <pa_5740> In regards to your question shanet, I was hoping to use the <hr> command, because while the length of a line of dashes may look fine on my PC,
17:20:20 <pa_5740> it would look funny on somebody else's.
17:20:46 <shanet> true. But as long as they get the idea, does it realy matter whether its a broken line or not?
17:21:33 <pa_5740> Well, I guess not, but I was just trying to make it a little more user-friendly.
17:21:47 <shanet> OK.
17:23:15 <pa_5740> Just a few more minutes and my topic should be up.
17:23:24 *** rouilj1 (~rouilj@pool-74-104-157-242.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) has joined #portableapps
17:25:55 <shanet> see you all later
17:25:59 *** shanet has quit (Quit: Leaving)
17:26:32 <pa_5740> (sniff)
17:28:51 *** ptmb is now known as ptmb|away
17:33:19 *** Suiseiseki has quit (Read error: No route to host)
17:34:01 *** Suiseiseki (~desu@wikipedia/Antonio-Lopez) has joined #portableapps
17:34:31 <pa_5740> I have a problem.
17:35:09 <pa_5740> I can't make a long post with my topic. It's not allowed.
17:40:52 <Bensawsome> pa_5740 huh?
17:41:31 <pa_5740> Never mind, I'm splitting up my message. Sorry for how long it is taking.
17:44:26 <pa_5740> Gizmokid2005: May I put a long post in my topic? I not sure if I can do it any other way without being accurate.
17:45:48 <pa_5740> I know I just said never mind, but I didn't look at that close enough.
17:46:35 <Gizmokid2005> pa_5740: you mean the subject of your forum post?
17:46:42 <pa_5740> Bensawsome: http://portableapps.com/forums/guidelines. Search for the word "short"
17:47:12 <pa_5740> Gizmokid2005: No, the comment.
17:47:18 <Gizmokid2005> pa_5740: if the inforrmation is required then post what you need
17:47:26 <Gizmokid2005> typically a short posting is sufficient for most posts
17:47:30 <Gizmokid2005> that's what those refer to
17:49:20 <pa_5740> OK, here's the post: http://portableapps.com/node/24184#comment-153454
17:49:32 <pa_5740> I have to add more, but there it is.
17:49:42 <pa_5740> One minute please.
17:58:12 <pa_5740> OK, it's all there now, anyone who wants to look at it, please do so.
18:06:12 <pa_5740> What do you think of it?
18:10:13 <pa_5740> Gizmokid2005: What do you think of my thread?
18:11:59 <pa_5740> It is titled "Media Format Licensing Details"
18:21:49 <pa_5740> I have a question.
18:24:12 <pa_5740> Gizmokid2005: My question is, I noticed on this page http://portableapps.com/node/24080
18:25:03 <pa_5740> That to speed up the app scanning, you must make appinfo.ini files
18:25:18 <Gizmokid2005> pa_5740: yes, that is true
18:26:04 <pa_5740> Can I copy the appinfo.ini file from another app and use it as my base?
18:26:25 <pa_5740> and not be breaking a licence?
18:26:30 <Gizmokid2005> yes
18:26:39 <Gizmokid2005> pa_5740: all of our stuff is under the GPL
18:27:03 <Gizmokid2005> pa_5740: http://portableapps.com/development/portableapps.com_format <--- is where you can get the info as well
18:27:48 <pa_5740> Gizmokid2005: OK,Thanks! To ask my earlier question, have you looked at my thread yet?
18:28:49 <pa_5740> Gizmokid2005: Also, may I download the page you suggested?
18:29:05 <Gizmokid2005> pa_5740: its on the internet...of course you can
18:29:08 <Gizmokid2005> you can do with it what you please
18:29:14 <Gizmokid2005> but you can't reuse it and call it your own
18:29:24 <Gizmokid2005> that's a general rule of thumb for the internet
18:30:06 <pa_5740> Gizmokid2005: I meant, without breaking any copyright and/or terms of service.
18:30:18 <Gizmokid2005> again pa_5740, it's perfectly fine
18:30:27 <Gizmokid2005> most webbrowsers do this automatically anyway by a means of a cache
18:30:32 <Gizmokid2005> they save certain content offline
18:30:36 <Gizmokid2005> which is what you're doing
18:31:44 <pa_5740> I'm aware of that, but there are websites online that in their terms of sevice say you cannot download the content of the site.
18:32:28 <Gizmokid2005> they can't police it, it's an unenforceable ToS
18:32:30 *** Spaceghost (irssi@unaffiliated/spaceghost) has joined #portableapps
18:32:54 <pa_5740> I'm probably being annoying in asking this but has anyone looked at my thread yet? I don't have much time left to chat & there's no other way I can tell if anyone has or not.
18:33:11 <Gizmokid2005> I'm not sure what you are trying to get at with your thread
18:35:28 <pa_5740> My point in that thread is that I'm showing, from official sources, what are the rules concerning how formats can be used without a licence.
18:36:06 <pa_5740> In this case, encoders and decoders. I hope I'm not being inaccurate.
18:36:56 <Gizmokid2005> I still don't get what the point was pa_5740
18:37:12 *** Spaceghost has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
18:37:55 <pa_5740> e.g. what media players are legal, what media converters are legal, etc.
18:38:02 <Gizmokid2005> they're all legal
18:38:18 <Gizmokid2005> until you get to a commercial use, which 99% of things need to be licensed for.
18:38:42 *** gluxon (~gluxon@c-71-234-105-104.hsd1.ct.comcast.net) has joined #portableapps
18:38:44 <pa_5740> As I mentioned in my post, if anyone has more info, please post.
18:39:21 <Gizmokid2005> it still doesn't explain the reason for posting it.
18:39:31 <Gizmokid2005> If it wasn't legal, John wouldn't have posted it to PA.c
18:40:56 <pa_5740> Well, maybe I do have a bit of a problem, but I'm kinda new to this.
18:41:10 <pa_5740> Sorry for any confusion caused by this.
18:42:13 <pa_5740> Also, what I'm trying to do in that post is I'm trying to get some official information concerning the legalities concerning media formats,
18:42:34 <pa_5740> because there's a lot of maybes concerning this,
18:43:25 <pa_5740> and I don't want to just rationalize this whole issue and then find out I made a big mistake.
18:44:07 <pa_5740> Any ideas on how I could improve my post?
18:44:33 <pa_5740> I only have 6 minutes.
18:45:31 <gluxon> pa_5740: If you're confused on how much rights you have to use different media formats, check up the license on wikipedia or the homepage of the format.
18:46:41 <pa_5740> Well, the problem with that is, Wikipedia doesn;t have all the details concering such, and neither do the websites.
18:46:48 <Gizmokid2005> pa_5740: I just don't see the need for it...nearly all media formats are free for personal use...
18:47:02 <pa_5740> That's why I had to resort to e-mail.
18:47:29 <gluxon> Just typing in "(format) license" doesn't work?
18:47:35 <gluxon> .g mp3 license
18:47:36 <GizmoBot> gluxon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP3
18:48:09 <gluxon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP3#Licensing_and_patent_issues
18:48:15 <pa_5740> Good point +Gizmobot
18:49:02 <pa_5740> In regards to your previous point gluxon, I haven't tried that.
18:49:58 <pa_5740> Gizmokid2005: I meant programs that play those files & also the programs that convert to media formats.
18:50:20 <Gizmokid2005> pa_5740: same thing, for personal use it's fine
18:50:30 <Gizmokid2005> commercial use is the place where licensing gets hairy
18:50:40 <pa_5740> How can I verify this?
18:50:53 <Gizmokid2005> like gluxon said
18:50:58 <Gizmokid2005> why wouldn't it be?
18:51:12 <Gizmokid2005> are they going to come to your house and arrest you for using a file format for your personal, non-profit use?
18:51:23 <Gizmokid2005> as long as you aren't pirating or making money, it's legal
18:51:32 <pa_5740> Like I said, I'm kinda new to this, so I've only a limited knowledge of this.
18:51:56 <pa_5740> Also, I'm concerned with distributing files.
18:52:38 <gluxon> pa_5740: If you're going to distribute them, and you're worried about format licenses, just use one with a GPL license.
18:52:42 <pa_5740> because the mp3licensing.com e-mail said that I can only make mp3 files for my personal, non-commercial use.
18:52:56 <Gizmokid2005> which is EXACTLY what I just said pa_5740
18:53:10 <Gizmokid2005> unless you license it
18:54:13 <pa_5740> I mean you can't distribute mp3 files you make (however to correct my earlier statement, with LAME).
18:58:49 <pa_5740> In your honest opinion, am I being silly?
18:58:52 <gluxon> pa_5740: About your other question, if a program is using their own or Open Source method, that isn't stolen, to read or convert the files, it's legal.
18:59:53 <gluxon> If a program however is, then you won't get in trouble for using it, the makers will. So don't worry.
19:00:29 <gluxon> pa_5740: No, you're curious and want to make sure you're not violating licenses. Nothing wrong with that :)
19:00:45 <pa_5740> Well, this sort of issue does bother me.
19:01:11 <pa_5740> I also don't want to be violating anything if I can help it.
19:01:14 <gluxon> Well, if you're only going to use a format or program for personal uses, you have nothing to worry about.
19:02:37 <gluxon> If you distribut it, make sure the audio isn't trademarked, and just to be on the safe side, use an Open Source format like OGG.
19:02:55 <pa_5740> Well, thanks for your help with this. Sorry if I was being angry in any of my comments, because I feel a little worked up at present.
19:03:20 *** b3rnd (~b3rnd@95-90-197-104-dynip.superkabel.de) has joined #portableapps
19:03:31 *** b3rnd has parted #portableapps (None)
19:05:09 <pa_5740> I just don't want to go and say "well nobody will see me, so I will not have any problems". Because there's always someone watching, if you know what I mean.
19:06:27 <pa_5740> Oops, please forgive the last part of that.
19:06:31 <Bensawsome> big brother o.o
19:06:33 <Bensawsome> lol
19:06:41 <pa_5740> big brother?
19:06:55 <Bensawsome> like... big brother is watching you
19:06:57 <Bensawsome> the goverment
19:07:09 *** x3r0_ (~x3r0@95-90-197-104-dynip.superkabel.de) has joined #portableapps
19:07:28 *** x3r0_ has parted #portableapps (None)
19:07:55 <pa_5740> no, I didn't mean that, but I goofed in saying it because it violated the agreement on freenode.
19:08:48 <pa_5740> IOW, religious talk. I hope you can forgive me, I didn't read that part.
19:08:56 <pa_5740> Sorry.
19:10:20 <pa_5740> Before I go, will I be banned from this service because of my mistake?
19:12:30 <gluxon> I can't even tell what your mistake was O_o
19:13:02 <Bensawsome> pa_5740 doing it once accidently is fine man :P as long as you realize what u did and dont do it again im sure you wont get banned
19:13:11 <pa_5740> I mentioned something religious on this chat.
19:13:25 <pa_5740> http://freenode.net/policy.shtml#offtopic
19:13:33 <Bensawsome> its fine man.
19:14:09 <pa_5740> OK, whew!
19:14:31 <pa_5740> Well, I must be going now. Good-bye!
19:14:33 *** ptmb|away is now known as ptmb
19:15:26 *** pa_5740 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
19:27:21 *** Gizmokid2005 is now known as Gizmokid2005|AFK
19:37:13 *** ZachThibeau has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
19:40:31 *** ZachThibeau (~ZachThibe@unaffiliated/zachthibeau) has joined #portableapps
19:40:31 <GizmoBot> ZachThibeau is the main developer of PChat and is a developer with PortableApps.com
19:50:39 *** ZachThibeau has quit (Quit: Leaving)
20:15:31 *** Scriptdaemon (~KennyW@cpe-76-83-207-236.dc.rr.com) has joined #portableapps
20:21:19 *** z3uS has quit (Quit: www.plzhalp.us)
20:23:32 *** z3uS (~z3us@plzhalp.us) has joined #portableapps
20:25:22 *** z3uS has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
20:26:32 *** z3uS (~z3us@plzhalp.us) has joined #portableapps
20:58:35 *** SrgSiler|AFK is now known as SergentSiler
21:47:28 *** Scriptdaemon has quit (Quit: Politeness, n. The most acceptable hypocrisy.)
22:28:32 *** ZachThibeau (~ZachThibe@unaffiliated/zachthibeau) has joined #portableapps
22:28:32 <GizmoBot> ZachThibeau is the main developer of PChat and is a developer with PortableApps.com
23:11:04 *** Scriptdaemon (~KennyW@cpe-76-83-207-236.dc.rr.com) has joined #portableapps
23:38:48 *** SergentSiler is now known as SrgSiler|AFK
23:56:30 *** ProgMan (~ProgMan@67-150-5-83.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com) has joined #portableapps