IRC Log from 2010-09-01
00:01:29 <gluxon> computerfreaker: No, you just didn't reload :P
00:02:11 <gluxon> Wait, computerfreaker's right, there's a problem with sessions on the site.
00:03:04 <gluxon> Wait, no, it's cache :/
00:06:56 <computerfreaker> gluxon: no, it's *not* a reloading issue. You don't want to know how many times I tried reloading the tracker page before I came in here. Heck, I even closed all PortableApps pages & re-opened them.
00:07:27 <computerfreaker> This seems to be a fairly reproducible issue, actually, since it's happened to me so often lately.
00:07:48 <gluxon> Yeah, I just realized.
00:07:56 <gluxon> It's the entire site. :/
00:08:24 <gluxon> John mentioned he put some new caching module about 2 weeks ago.
00:08:28 <gluxon> Maybe a month.
00:08:56 <gluxon> It could be a side effect of that, but don't see why nobody else noticed the issue until now.
00:09:30 <gluxon> Yep, it's caching.
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00:10:56 <gluxon> I just hit the "Mark all posts as read" on the "Beta Testing" forums, I clicked on the "Forums" link on the top.
00:11:33 <gluxon> It still says 1 new for that topic.
00:13:01 <computerfreaker> It's possible somebody noticed the issue but just didn't say anything. For relatively minor bugs, it's often easier to just let it go than actually bother to report it.
00:13:41 <computerfreaker> That bug is also causing new posts to not appear on the tracker - I just hit Ctrl+Shift+R and saw half-a-dozen new posts that weren't there after a regular refresh of the tracker.
00:13:53 <gluxon> John installed it 2-4 weeks ago :/
00:14:29 <computerfreaker> I haven't been very active lately, aside from posting new releases/updates, so idk how long this has been going on for, sorry
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00:17:34 <ChrisMorgan> The whole site is cached aggressively for anonymous users, meaning pages like the tracker can be a while out of date when viewed.
00:17:55 <computerfreaker> Oh, ok. I suppose that affects the login state too?
00:18:48 <computerfreaker> login state = login *message*
00:18:59 <computerfreaker> (serves me right for trying to manage a dozen things at once)
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00:21:16 <Scriptdaemon> Hey ChrisMorgan.
00:21:38 <ChrisMorgan> Hey Scriptdaemon
00:22:31 <Scriptdaemon> Figured out what was wrong with Speccy. It now supports x64, so when Speccy.exe loaded Speccy64.exe and closed, so did the launcher, and thus no settings were moved.
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00:22:59 <Scriptdaemon> It also fixed the "could not load CPU DLL" error, but I have no idea how that was related.
00:23:24 <ChrisMorgan> Ah, so you added CloseEXE=Speccy64.exe?
00:23:48 <Scriptdaemon> I used WaitForEXE1. Should I use CloseEXE instead then
00:23:52 <Scriptdaemon> ?*
00:24:06 <ChrisMorgan> WaitForEXE1, yeah.
00:24:21 <ChrisMorgan> For managing multiple instances though you should have CloseEXE=Speccy64.exe
00:24:21 <Scriptdaemon> So leave WaitForEXE1 then?
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00:24:26 <ChrisMorgan> As well
00:24:33 <Scriptdaemon> So use both?
00:24:56 <ChrisMorgan> That is, if it doesn't have SingleAppInstance=false
00:25:07 <ChrisMorgan> I should add a ProgramExecutable64...
00:25:20 <Scriptdaemon> Yes, I've been meaning to suggest that.
00:26:38 <Scriptdaemon> Okay, I see now. Adding CloseEXE.
00:32:07 <computerfreaker> Also, ChrisMorgan, I assume Iron Portable is ready to go once PAI 2.0.3 is out? Or is there something I need to be taking care of?
00:32:16 <ChrisMorgan> I believe it's ready.
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00:32:32 <computerfreaker> ChrisMorgan: Thank you very much! :D
00:32:37 <Scriptdaemon> Oh, and another thing. The settings file for Wormux is an XML file. You added XML support, correct? I would need to take a look at that before giving you the write-up.
00:33:09 <Scriptdaemon> As it is, I just treat it the old way.
00:36:03 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon: PAL 2.1 (2.0+dev currently) can cope with XML attributes and XML text. See http://portableapps.com/node/24234 on how to use it as it's not yet properly documented.
00:37:02 <Scriptdaemon> Bookmarked.
00:37:25 <ChrisMorgan> You could put in the writeup "at the time this was developed, PAL didn't support XML files, so this was used... PAL 2.1 introduced XML support, so this was changed to this, which is a more precise and accurate way of doing it..."
00:38:42 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon: I've coded support for ProgramExecutable64 and ProgramExecutableWhenParameters64, just need to document them...
00:39:43 <Scriptdaemon> Nice. So the launcher will automatically detect which machine on which it's running and launch the appropriate exe?
00:40:08 <ChrisMorgan> Should do.
00:40:12 <Scriptdaemon> Awesome.
00:40:48 <ChrisMorgan> Hey, I hadn't documented ProgramExecutableWhenParameters...
00:41:22 <Scriptdaemon> lol
00:42:23 <ChrisMorgan> And that was way before 2.0 (r357) - back at r143
00:43:55 <Scriptdaemon> Better late than never.
00:48:56 <ChrisMorgan> Something just occurred to me which makes it more troublesome - what if a config file needs to be written with a value like App\AppName32\... or App\AppName64\... depending on the app directory?
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00:54:03 <Scriptdaemon> Hmm.
00:54:38 <Scriptdaemon> Well with Speccy, both executables are in the same direcory.
00:54:40 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon: what do you think for lookup order: ProgramExecutableWhenParameters64, ProgramExecutableWhenParameters, ProgramExecutable64, ProgramExecutable or ProgramExecutableWhenParameters64, ProgramExecutable64, ProgramExecutableWhenParameters, ProgramExecutable
00:54:42 <Scriptdaemon> directory*
00:54:54 <ChrisMorgan> JkDefrag has them in separate directories, I believe.
00:55:11 <Scriptdaemon> Ah. And latter.
00:55:31 <Scriptdaemon> That way x64 is always loaded first.
00:57:54 <Scriptdaemon> Hmm, that one is a bit tricky.
00:58:44 <computerfreaker> Listary and Unlocker, among others, have different directories for the x86 and x64 versions.
00:59:59 <computerfreaker> Personally, I'd do lookup order like this: ProgramExecutableWhenParameters64, ProgramExecutable64, ProgramExecutableWhenParameters, ProgramExecutable. That way, the 64-bit versions are tried first, and parameters are tried before the standard (non-parameter) entries.
01:00:27 <Scriptdaemon> Yeah, so we agree about that.
01:00:49 <ChrisMorgan> computerfreaker: yep, that's what I'm doing. At first I did it way 1, then I thought about it and thought I should probably change it.
01:01:46 <Scriptdaemon> One way I can think of doing is, have a new env var that's updated based on whether the machine is x86 or x64, but that in itself might get complicated.
01:02:24 <Scriptdaemon> Like %PAL:FullAppDir% or something.
01:02:26 <ChrisMorgan> There's currently no conditional support with environment variables.
01:02:40 <ChrisMorgan> I'll leave it to custom code if it's needed, I think, for the moment.
01:02:44 <ChrisMorgan> It'd be easy as such.
01:02:44 <Scriptdaemon> Yeah.
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01:10:33 <ChrisMorgan> Unfortunately I don't have time to commit all this with the release notes and all too today. G'bye.
01:10:53 <computerfreaker> bye ChrisMorgan!
01:11:43 <ChrisMorgan> As usual, it needs a new page in the manual with notes about custom code etc., not just in the release notes - topics/64-bit page.
01:12:44 <Scriptdaemon> Yeah.
01:12:50 <Scriptdaemon> See you later.
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01:18:11 <computerfreaker> I'm going to sign off too. Bye guys!
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01:41:57 <pa_5740> Here's something interesting: http://www.portablelinuxapps.org/
01:47:36 <pa_5740> Gizmokid2005: Hello?
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05:20:25 <pa_7605> Help
05:20:46 <pa_7605> I need help
05:20:50 <pa_7605> Pls help me
05:21:14 <pa_7605> I want Portable Apps Creation Master Software
05:21:37 <pa_7605> I want to create Portable Software
05:21:45 <pa_7605> Anybody there??
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06:30:43 <auscompgeek> wow, someone is too dumb to look on the software page 9_9
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14:50:07 <GizmoBot> ZachThibeau is the main developer of PChat and is a developer with PortableApps.com
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16:56:58 <GizmoBot> ZachThibeau is the main developer of PChat and is a developer with PortableApps.com
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21:10:55 <Gringoloco> ChrisMorgan: How eager are you for getting DLL registration for users?
21:11:28 <ChrisMorgan> It's something that would be nice, and I'd like it in 2.1.
21:11:46 <ChrisMorgan> But when 2.1 comes is still not a well-defined problem.
21:12:57 <Gringoloco> It would be a very good feature, but it will always stay a bit of a hack and will be quite experimental (at first)
21:14:33 <Gringoloco> It means manually writing (and backingup?) all of the Classes\CLSID's etc
21:16:55 <ChrisMorgan> Why manually writing?
21:18:06 <Gringoloco> I can just register the TypeLib for users, it doesn't do all the rest what DLL registration does
21:18:37 <Gringoloco> I can send you the scripts I got, to have a better idea. There getting finished up
21:21:13 <ChrisMorgan> So: a TypeLib can be registered for the current user, but regsvr32 only supports global registration of a DLL server, but the data could be written to HKCU rather than HKLM and it would work - but you'd need to write the values manually rather than using regsvr32.
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21:21:15 <ChrisMorgan> Is that correct?
21:21:48 <Gringoloco> Yep, that's basically it. And it seems work well
21:22:03 <Computator> neat :)
21:23:10 <Gringoloco> The question is would we need to backup all the values. I would say just delete them after, cause I do not expect they could ever be in HKCU in the first place
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21:23:47 <GizmoBot> ...
21:23:56 <ChrisMorgan> Sounds OK to me. The register DLL information needed would then be GUID, name, path[, ThreadingModel, ProgID, ...?]
21:24:43 <Gringoloco> [, ThreadingModel, ProgID, ...?] ? Why ?
21:25:31 <Computator> or fwiw, you could just check and see if there was something there (before you put it in) and if there was put out some error...
21:26:09 <ChrisMorgan> I was just looking through Wine's system.reg... there's one thing I haven't observed before - Microsoft Wave File {00020003-0000-0000-C000-000000000046} has, as well as the normal InProcServer32 (avifil32.dll), InProcServer (avifile.dll)... my version of Linux/Wine is 64-bit, wonder if that's 64-bit support or something.
21:26:45 <ChrisMorgan> Gringoloco: some will need the ThreadingModel and some will need to be associated with a ProgID, and I think there are one or two other things which are there too. Normally regsvr32 would take care of them.
21:26:53 <ChrisMorgan> The ProgID bit is a TypeLib thing, I think.
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21:28:14 <ChrisMorgan> As for the ..., {00021401-0000-0000-C000-000000000046} (Shortcut) here has an extra key - shellex\MayChangeDefaultMenu.
21:28:39 <ChrisMorgan> And there's InProcHandler, and VersionIndependentProgID...
21:29:16 <ChrisMorgan> Another one has a key DllVersion
21:29:44 <ChrisMorgan> Instance\{...}, etc.
21:29:59 <ChrisMorgan> So we need to be able to deal with custom keys, I think.
21:30:15 <Gringoloco> stop, I'm getting lost here
21:30:31 <Gringoloco> :?
21:30:31 <ChrisMorgan> (Oh good, it's not just me for once :P)
21:31:50 <Gringoloco> Here is what we do, I'll send you the script, you make modifications like you wish and stick it in beta 2. Anything what's really needed will get found when testing on the forum
21:32:20 <Gringoloco> ...beta 2.1. Anything else...
21:33:15 <Gringoloco> In the mean while, I will have time to find a proper way to deal with DLL registration for users
21:35:24 <ChrisMorgan> For the first test of it would it be better to use RegDLL/regsvr32 and just require admin?
21:37:16 <Gringoloco> Maybe, you will decide when you've seen the scripts !
21:38:57 <ChrisMorgan> OK
21:43:19 <Gringoloco> I emailed them...There probably not totally ready yet, and I'm still in the middle of testing
21:43:29 <Gringoloco> but this is the basic idea for now
21:50:29 <Gringoloco> Actually I probably find the registration for users more safe, cause the launcher doesn't effect the main registry at all
21:52:57 <ChrisMorgan> By "main registry" do you mean HKLM?
21:53:09 <Gringoloco> yes
21:54:37 * Gringoloco hopes FormatMessage() works for ChrisMorgan
21:55:32 <ChrisMorgan> It was working before for me, just the matter of if it didn't know the value it gave an empty string rather than \r\n.
21:56:14 <ChrisMorgan> FYI, when using !ifdef DEBUG, it needs ${!getdebug} somewhere before it. That's so that it can check "do I need to debug this segment?".
21:57:18 <Gringoloco> yes, I knew that, some how I didn't get around to using it
21:57:32 <ChrisMorgan> And ${!getdebug} is "cheap" in that it's entirely !commands for compile time. No code for at runtime to slow it down at all.
21:58:56 <Gringoloco> About ${RegDLL}, I just made it to understand a bit better what RegDLL/regsvr32 are doing
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21:59:22 <ChrisMorgan> I was about to ask about that!
21:59:28 <ChrisMorgan> Does it change the functionality at all?
21:59:54 <Gringoloco> ${RegDLL}, RegDLL and regsvr32 (or at least in Wine) all do the same thing
22:01:04 <ChrisMorgan> I see what you mean about the registry stuff, but have you put it in the wrong place - it's in TLB rather than REGDLL or REGDLLTLB?
22:01:33 <Gringoloco> It's just that regsvr32 apperently works for 64 bit aswell, but is unsafe to use due to permissions or not being available
22:01:49 <Gringoloco> :?
22:02:41 <ChrisMorgan> I thought you were saying the writing stuff manually to the registry was for DLL servers, not TypeLibs?
22:04:37 <Gringoloco> I'm not that sure of which is which, probably most of them are DLL servers & TLB, but till now all the once which get registered with RegDLL also work when registered as TLB for user when added the HKCU values
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22:08:33 <ChrisMorgan> Hmm... so if you have something which is both, and you use just RegisterTypeLibForUser, Software\Classes\CLSID\{00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000} (the DLL server part) won't get created?
22:08:52 <ChrisMorgan> It requires the use of RegDLL/whatever, which then puts it in HKLM.
22:09:44 <Gringoloco> Yep, all RegDll is doing is executing 'DllRegisterServer' from within the library
22:10:48 <ChrisMorgan> OK, got that. So there's no known way of getting that to put it in HKCU instead of HKLM...
22:12:16 <Gringoloco> I do not think so, it seems all programed into the library, I tried to recover all of the info I could get with ITypeInfo, etc, but there doesnot seem any consistency
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22:12:52 <Gringoloco> consistency with what gets written to HKLM
22:14:26 <ChrisMorgan> Then also there's the 32-/64-bit divide which could cause even more variation (not sure if it ever does, but it could).
22:14:55 <sar3th> WOW64
22:15:05 <sar3th> Windows on Windows 64
22:16:03 <ChrisMorgan> sar3th: I was meaning the difference in what may be written. The gVim type library used for its context menu (gvimext.dll) is different between 32-bit and 64-bit (installer selects the one to give you).
22:16:36 <Gringoloco> But are you doing gVimPortable for 64 bit ?
22:17:19 <ChrisMorgan> I don't use the OLE build of gVim, so for it we don't worry.
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22:18:06 <ChrisMorgan> gvim.exe is always 32-bit, but the "Edit with Vim" context menu item for in Explorer needs to be 64-bit to work on 64-bit systems.
22:18:28 <ChrisMorgan> In Vim 7.2, the "Edit with Vim" context menu item just didn't exist on Win64.
22:19:12 <ChrisMorgan> The point is that it /can/ vary - in fact, the 32- or 64-bit file may even need to be swapped into the right place...
22:19:29 <Gringoloco> ChrisMorgan: Can you run PIXresizerPortable or BurnAware on your ubuntu?
22:19:46 <ChrisMorgan> I can try PIXresizer
22:20:28 <Gringoloco> Just a sec, I setting it up with the TLB for user stuff
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22:42:10 <Gringoloco> Ok, nevermind for PIXresizer, somehow that one registers it self to HKLM anyhow
22:43:21 <Gringoloco> What I could do is release WinampP or BurnAwareP with the register for user stuff. With those I have good experience
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22:45:13 <Gringoloco> ChrisMorgan: Another thing is I'dd line to move RegisterDLL_Post to before cleaning up the registry
22:45:47 <Gringoloco> I found that quite a few libraries do not cleanup well after them selfs :(
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23:31:41 <ChrisMorgan> Didn't realise that. Earlier on I thought it was more a metadata thing and regsvr32 read it and worked out what to put in. Then I worked out it was actually that the DLL had the DllRegisterServer entry point - and so it can do what it likes, I suppose.
23:33:22 <Gringoloco> Have you got any specific app your testing it on?
23:34:57 <Gringoloco> ChrisMorgan: I'dd like to move RegisterDLL_Post to before cleaning up the registry
23:34:58 <Gringoloco> , I found that quite a few libraries do not cleanup well after them selfs :(
23:35:43 <ChrisMorgan> Yep, saw those last two. As for specific apps to test on, I haven't tested it with any yet
23:37:56 <Gringoloco> I got to go to sleep now, and will see to release WinampP (registring flash10h.ocx for user) these days
23:38:34 <ChrisMorgan> OK. Thanks :-)
23:38:37 <Gringoloco> just to test it a bit. :)
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