IRC Log from 2010-10-25

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01:12:42 <solanus> Hidey ho!
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01:13:17 <ZachThibeau> hidey ho solanus
01:13:36 <ChrisMorgan> Hey solanus :-)
01:13:48 <ChrisMorgan> Don't think I've seen you in here before. Or possibly once?
01:13:54 <solanus> So I'm trying to learn real coding in Lazarus...
01:14:09 <ZachThibeau> let me guess to port the portableapps.com platform to it?
01:14:32 <solanus> Actually, to recode my PAM Themebuilder
01:14:43 <ZachThibeau> ah
01:15:01 <solanus> It's frustrating/fascinating
01:15:50 <ZachThibeau> well sar3th and I are going to try and make the portableapps.com code compilable with lazarus/freepascal but still maintain the option to compile with delphi
01:16:03 <ZachThibeau> not as easy as expected as sar3th and I thought >_<
01:16:14 <solanus> Sweet.
01:16:37 <solanus> Yeah, there's some stuff in Delphi that's not in Lazarus.
01:17:05 <ChrisMorgan> I think an important thing is that John's actually going ahead and using more Delphi-specific things - gestures, touch support in Windows 7, things like that
01:17:24 <ZachThibeau> I would personally love to see the platform in c++ personally
01:17:48 <ChrisMorgan> personally personally :-)
01:18:29 <solanus> I dunno, is Lazarus progressing fast enough to keep up with Delphi?
01:18:38 <ChrisMorgan> Certainly not.
01:18:41 <ChrisMorgan> Never will.
01:19:09 <ChrisMorgan> But if you could make it so that it could just omit features like that when not available (does Delphi have #if and other compile-time directives?), that would mean individuals could build their own things and develop most sorts of features, but then the official build would have those extra features.
01:19:17 <ZachThibeau> it can come close for a short while, but delphi where it is commercially supported will still have the advantage
01:19:24 <sar3th> gesture support is not in the current beta, so at least that one can be somehow compiled with lazarus
01:19:38 <sar3th> and yes, delphi supports a lot of compiler directives
01:19:47 <ChrisMorgan> sar3th: but it is expected to be in for 2.0
01:19:56 <ChrisMorgan> Good.
01:20:06 <sar3th> so you want us to stop working on it then?
01:21:47 <ChrisMorgan> Not at all. I think it'd be great if you could get it working like that.
01:23:32 <solanus> Well, I for one am still new at Lazarus and Pascal, but I can see how that will be really a great project if you can get it to work.
01:26:45 <solanus> ChrisMorgan has an excellent point. A Lazarus menu fork would allow many more people to try interesting enhancements; that would be a boon to the platform developing team.
01:27:02 <ChrisMorgan> solanus: just don't call it a fork.
01:27:24 <solanus> Even if they had to adapt Lazarus to Delphi --- oops was that a faux pas?
01:27:44 <sar3th> we are more aiming for a port than a fork, so the changes can be integrated into the main branch as well
01:28:09 <ZachThibeau> well sar3th and I aren't really doing a fork so to speak, we presented the idea to John already and he was game in trying to support both pascal compilers, delphi and freepascal, it's just a matter of getting our ducks all in a row which isn't an easy task
01:28:48 <ZachThibeau> speaking of duck, I had a nice duck roast for dinner :)
01:28:50 <solanus> OK, that's what I understood, just used the wrong term!
01:29:14 <ChrisMorgan> Yep.
01:30:45 <ZachThibeau> I'm working on this with sar3th as my pascal is... well very unpolished to put it politely, I knew enough a while ago but when you don't practice what you know you tend to forget stuff :P
01:32:01 <solanus> It'll come back
01:32:37 <ZachThibeau> I hope so :P
01:33:49 <solanus> I'm more of a scripter than a coder, but I think I have a logical enough mind to pick up what I need. It always helps to have a clear project :)
01:34:13 <ZachThibeau> I had an idea for PChat which is almost done, the changes we done to the core practically makes it into a library for someone to write their own User Interface for and eventually I want to use delphi and other languages to show off the PChat library, (please note the wxwidgets front will still be the one I'll support though the most ;P)
01:35:32 <solanus> Cool
01:41:36 <solanus> I'm definitely a graphics oriented guy, and I really enjoy theming the menu - hence my PAM Theme Builder app idea. Once I work out some minor problems, I'm posting a beta of my Lazarus port to my homepage...
01:42:08 <solanus> The current HTA version is so dang clunky
01:43:11 <ChrisMorgan> I haven't tried it; did you use some JavaScript library for it?
01:45:06 <solanus> It's VBScript and bat files, and uses 7zipa to pack.unpack.The ShellExecute does some weird things when run from the menu - the current directory changes, so I had to tweak the paths.
01:45:41 <solanus> So now it only works from the PAM, not standalone
01:46:16 <ChrisMorgan> Does it have some UI to it or is it purely for processing the stuff? How is the UI done?
01:47:11 <sar3th> HTA...
01:47:44 <solanus> The UI is an HTA file, with all the pngs arranged to mock-up the real menu. You edit the pngs in an external app, but then you can refresh the UI to see the changes as you go.
01:48:51 <ChrisMorgan> OK, I see. I was meaning inside the HTML stuff whether it used some JavaScript library to present any options or such, but it seems the answer for that is no.
01:49:27 <solanus> No, no javascript library.
01:50:34 <solanus> Honestly, it was more of a proof-of-concept, and I always ultimately wanted to code it and use standard windows, menus, etc.
01:50:53 <solanus> Which I'm doing :)
01:52:53 <solanus> All the display stuff is done in the new one, and I've got the refresh, and reload default theme stuff done, plus the option to toggle thebackground and chrome files on and off.
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01:55:19 <solanus> But I want to add the ability for users to open the files in GIMP, and the ini in a text editor, and that's where the learning curve got steep :D
01:56:11 <solanus> But I go on.
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02:02:06 <solanus> Well, I'm going back to play in my toybox! Thanks guys, and ZachThibeau and sar3th, I'm really psyched about your project. Can't wait to see it!
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03:33:00 <GizmoBot> MaienM is MaienM. He is the developer of The Mana World Portable.
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03:44:17 <Scriptdaemon> ChrisMorgan, would you be willing to host Spybot Portable for me? I imagine that'd get a lot of downloads and free DropBox accounts only get so much bandwidth.
03:45:50 <ChrisMorgan> Yep, I can do that. I haven't set up my hosting to properly work with other people's stuff yet, so only gringoloco has an account on my site to do that - for the moment, it's easiest for me to just mirror the file manually, until I set it up more fully - that OK?
03:46:34 <Scriptdaemon> That's fine. I can put it in my DropBox folder for you to download.
03:46:50 <ChrisMorgan> OK
03:47:11 <Scriptdaemon> Quick question though, should I update the definitions before releasing, or leave them as they are in the Spybot 1.6.2 build?
03:49:57 * ChrisMorgan has no idea
03:50:07 <ChrisMorgan> So 1.6.2 does include definitions?
03:50:15 <OliverK> i wouldn't
03:50:33 <ChrisMorgan> Having it without definitions would make the installer smaller... and if it needs to update anyway...
03:50:46 <Scriptdaemon> Alright.
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03:51:10 <GizmoBot> dbdii407 is Dave, Owner of the ScrapIRC Network.
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04:01:44 <ChrisMorgan> OK, added RunAsAdmin=compile-force.
04:03:30 <Scriptdaemon> I'll test it with Revo Uninstaller Portable in a bit. Just testing updating Spybot and that works correctly, so this is now good for a release methinks. Creating installer...
04:03:38 <Scriptdaemon> tested*
04:05:28 <Scriptdaemon> I'm leaving it named "Spybot Portable" without the "Search and Destroy" since the menu doesn't like ampersands.
04:05:41 <Scriptdaemon> 7 *
04:05:44 <Scriptdaemon> & **
04:06:07 <ChrisMorgan> What doesn't the menu like about ampersands? Report it!
04:06:34 <ChrisMorgan> Does it break the item or just lose the &?
04:06:56 <Scriptdaemon> This is just based on what I'm used to when creating UI elements, but I think it thinks I wanted to make a shortcut key.
04:07:10 <ChrisMorgan> That makes sense.
04:07:15 <Scriptdaemon> Because it loses the & and underlines the next letter.
04:07:28 <ChrisMorgan> So you get it looking like "Search _Destroy"?
04:07:49 <ChrisMorgan> And it's possible that Alt+Space would then run it...
04:08:02 <ChrisMorgan> But it shouldn't as Alt+Space is a Windows-registered shortcut.
04:08:09 <ChrisMorgan> But still, report it in the thread.
04:08:31 <Scriptdaemon> I actually tried with Spybot - S&D, but yeah same thing. I'll text to see if Alt+D does anything.
04:09:35 <Scriptdaemon> Ah, nope.
04:10:54 <Scriptdaemon> I'll leave it then and just report it. No big deal.
04:13:43 <ChrisMorgan> Pity, it would have been a nice hack for keyboard accessibility (except it would have been fixed in the next Beta :P
04:13:44 <ChrisMorgan> )
04:17:49 <ChrisMorgan> Well, ping me when you've uploaded it, Scriptdaemon.
04:21:53 <Scriptdaemon> Yeah, sorry it's taking awhile. I'm distracted with some other things too.
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04:32:30 <Scriptdaemon> ChrisMorgan, I seem to get an error when I try to regenerate the launcher for it (using hg-tip). http://scriptdaemon.pastebin.com/AK6R9Zfw
04:33:37 <ChrisMorgan> Hmm. That's weird.
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04:34:11 <ChrisMorgan> Have you rebuilt the generator since getting the tip? If not, do so
04:35:08 <ChrisMorgan> That appears to be that weird NSIS bug to do with how it treats !ifs etc. again.
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04:35:40 <ChrisMorgan> For the moment, cut out the & from the Name
04:35:42 <Scriptdaemon> Yeah, it's a fresh compile of the generator.
04:35:46 <Scriptdaemon> Alright.
04:36:43 <ChrisMorgan> Set it to Spybot Portable
04:37:29 <Scriptdaemon> Yeah, works now. Something to do with the name then.
04:38:52 <ChrisMorgan> It's an obscure NSIS bug.
04:39:17 <ChrisMorgan> It would be solved if I changed the define from Name to something else, or Util.nsh didn't use NAME as the macro param
04:39:33 <Scriptdaemon> Title?
04:41:16 <ChrisMorgan> The biggest thing with it is laziness :P
04:41:45 <Scriptdaemon> Understood, lol.
04:45:12 <Scriptdaemon> ChrisMorgan, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1442139/Projects/SpybotPortable_1.6.2.0_Development_Test_1_English.paf.exe
04:45:41 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon: http://portableapps.chrismorgan.info/scriptdaemon/SpybotPortable_1.6.2.0_Development_Test_1_English.paf.exe
04:46:20 <Scriptdaemon> That was quick.
04:46:28 <ChrisMorgan> Had to see how fast I could do that... was all ready with SSH connection active, directory ready, wget ready... ;-)
04:46:38 <Scriptdaemon> lol.
04:47:17 <ChrisMorgan> It's a lot faster in such cases to be on the server (whether shell.sf.net or chrismorgan.info) and use wget, rather than the traditional download... upload...
04:47:45 <Scriptdaemon> Yeah.
04:48:24 <ChrisMorgan> On SF I'll be able to download e.g. a 60MB Warzone2100 source tarball in a second (as it's already on the SF network) - or maybe even TWO!
04:48:54 <OliverK|Away> local lan win
04:51:49 <ChrisMorgan> About the ${Name}, it's not like it's hard... see, I've just done it - http://portableapps.hg.sourceforge.net/hgweb/portableapps/launcher/rev/da9b53377e5e
04:52:38 <Scriptdaemon> ... So now I can do DT 2 without even releasing the first one. =P
04:52:44 *** OliverK|Away is now known as OliverK
04:53:59 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon: also in downloading Spybot I got a much faster download than I expected - 6.3MB/s, whereas downloading that locally I get a more normal 1MB/s. I suspect that means the WebFaction and DropBox server locations have a nice fast cable connecting them fairly directly.
04:54:26 <Scriptdaemon> Neat.
04:55:15 <ChrisMorgan> From Australia, I'm getting pretty much the same download rate from either location.
04:55:35 <Scriptdaemon> Oh, I could also test language switching with Spybot running in admin now too then.
04:56:14 <ChrisMorgan> You're using compile-force?
04:57:20 <Scriptdaemon> I updated to tip, so I can try it.
05:02:31 <Scriptdaemon> Oh, maybe not. Spybot uses try.
05:02:42 <Scriptdaemon> Oh well.
05:02:58 <Scriptdaemon> Is there something we can do about that?
05:03:07 <ChrisMorgan> Yeah, sorry, there's no real way you can use the native method optionally.
05:03:19 <ChrisMorgan> There is RequestExecutionLevel highest, but that won't prompt for admin.
05:03:33 <ChrisMorgan> It'll just get it if it's easy or something like that.
05:04:12 <Scriptdaemon> So, either use compile-force or users can just go without language switching if they run it in admin?
05:04:29 <ChrisMorgan> At the moment that's it, sorry
05:05:14 <Scriptdaemon> Hmm, alright.
05:09:12 <Scriptdaemon> Also, their default icon is terrible. I'll need to figure out what I'm doing to do with appicon.
05:14:38 <Scriptdaemon> ChrisMorgan, small thing: When using compile-force, if you select no when the admin prompt pops up, it doesn't do anything (i.e. no error message).
05:15:11 <ChrisMorgan> But the app doesn't run.
05:15:34 <ChrisMorgan> That's why I've put in the note about that method being less friendly; there's nothing I can do about that - the executable is never run.
05:16:01 <Scriptdaemon> Ah.
05:16:04 <ChrisMorgan> Windows detects that bit in its manifest and so tries to run it as admin. If that fails... the executable is never run.
05:17:10 <Scriptdaemon> Language switching still doesn't work.
05:17:11 <Scriptdaemon> :(
05:18:58 <ChrisMorgan> Hmm. Well, I suppose that's something... the original method wasn't bad in making a hash of that ;-)
05:19:32 <Scriptdaemon> There are still no environment variables in the process, so same problem exists.
05:19:47 <ChrisMorgan> Are you running Process Explorer as admin?
05:20:03 <ChrisMorgan> If not, that'll be the reason why you see no environment - lack of permissions
05:20:13 <ChrisMorgan> NO environment just doesn't make any sense at all.
05:20:36 <Scriptdaemon> ...Now I am. >.>
05:20:40 <ChrisMorgan> I'll be interested to see what prapper says about it with Disk Cleaner, whether it works for him. Then if it does, I'll get him to try ``force`` again... could have been a mistake or something somewhere for him?
05:21:30 <Scriptdaemon> The language variables are there, now that I have ProcExp in admin.
05:24:03 <Scriptdaemon> I'll just regenerate the launcher with RunAsAdmin=try and we can look at this later. I just want to get this out.
05:24:43 <ChrisMorgan> Yep, best to have it as it is.
05:24:55 * ChrisMorgan likes having ssh access to his server.
05:25:40 <Scriptdaemon> lol
05:25:44 <ChrisMorgan> It's just great... I can run Python stuff, I can install software, I can do almost anything I like :-)
05:27:46 <Scriptdaemon> The labs in the CSE department have SSH access. I do all my homework on the lab computers when I'm not even in the lab.
05:28:44 <ChrisMorgan> :-)
05:29:03 * ChrisMorgan loves the way IT departments at Uni actually know how to set up a computer system
05:29:07 <OliverK> i hate the ssh access my school has
05:29:18 <OliverK> they use it as a crutch
05:29:27 <OliverK> they're to old to releaze is 2010 and we have guis
05:29:34 <Scriptdaemon> lol.
05:29:40 <OliverK> bastards
05:29:53 <ChrisMorgan> OliverK...
05:30:05 <OliverK> they also teacha bastardized version of C++ that in reality is c with the ++ tacked on occasionally
05:30:12 <ChrisMorgan> OliverK: stop.
05:30:15 <OliverK> ssh can be a blessing or a curse
05:31:23 <OliverK> personally, I was in ssh for hours yesterday working on my servers and a bit on sourceforge's servers. it was nice
05:34:51 <OliverK> but my school doesn't even care to releaze the greatness of kde\gnome, or that its 2010 and we all pretty much have windows based machiones, and we can get MSVC for free, with its awesome debugging tools
05:43:01 <Scriptdaemon> ChrisMorgan, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1442139/Projects/SpybotPortable_1.6.2_Development_Test_2_English.paf.exe
05:43:16 <Scriptdaemon> Wait for it.
05:43:19 <Scriptdaemon> Still uploading.
05:43:52 <OliverK> .t
05:43:53 <GizmoBot> Mon, 25 Oct 2010 00:43:52 CDT
05:45:16 <Scriptdaemon> ChrisMorgan, k, uploaded.
05:45:35 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon: done. But why not DT1? DT1 hasn't been released to the public.
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05:47:33 <Scriptdaemon> It was released to you. FINE, I'll redo it.
05:47:49 <ChrisMorgan> I didn't try it :P
05:48:14 <ChrisMorgan> You don't need to redo it if you don't want to or if it'll take time you can't be bothered spending.
05:48:40 <Scriptdaemon> Nah, no big deal.
05:48:48 <ChrisMorgan> What changed in between the two builds, other than the second being 4998 bytes larger?
05:48:58 <ChrisMorgan> And other than the .0 being removed
05:53:15 <Scriptdaemon> The fix you did for the Name.
05:54:08 <ChrisMorgan> Ah, so that you could use the & in the Name?
05:54:58 <Scriptdaemon> Yeah.
05:55:02 <Scriptdaemon> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1442139/Projects/SpybotPortable_1.6.2_Development_Test_1_English.paf.exe
05:56:52 <ChrisMorgan> OK, got that.
05:57:02 <ChrisMorgan> Same URL scheme as earlier.
05:57:15 <ChrisMorgan> I'll delete the other two, shall I?
05:57:28 <Scriptdaemon> Minus the .0?
05:57:48 <Scriptdaemon> And yeah, go ahead.
05:58:00 <ChrisMorgan> OK, just that left.
05:58:44 <ChrisMorgan> Same URLs as normal, http://portableapps.chrismorgan.info/scriptdaemon/SpybotPortable_1.6.2_Development_Test_1_English.paf.exe
05:59:54 <ChrisMorgan> I see the installer messes up the & as well. Standard Windows feature...
06:01:00 <Scriptdaemon> lol.
06:01:22 <Scriptdaemon> So when I report it, shall I mention that as well?
06:02:26 <ChrisMorgan> Or just give up and expect it not to be supported...
06:03:14 <ChrisMorgan> It could be worked around in the installer, I think; my memory is that && is the escape sequence for it, if that's the case then making a second version of the string which replaced & with && for those particular places would work.
06:03:34 <ChrisMorgan> But that's quite a messy solution. Better is just to tell Spybot they chose a bad product name :P
06:03:54 <Scriptdaemon> Yeah, I never liked how long it was.
06:03:55 <Scriptdaemon> lol
06:04:35 <ChrisMorgan> It's using AppId instead of AppID.
06:04:42 <Scriptdaemon> ARGH.
06:05:03 <Scriptdaemon> When I fixed them, I must have missed Spybot since I think it was on my USB at the time.
06:05:11 <Scriptdaemon> One more time...
06:05:40 <ChrisMorgan> And Description is too long. Max 512 chars, Recommended Retail Length <100
06:09:23 <Scriptdaemon> How's 125? =P
06:09:31 <ChrisMorgan> Fine.
06:10:04 <ChrisMorgan> I suddenly realised my PAF validation stuff was missing the 512 char limit. So I've put it in (error > 512, warn > 150)
06:10:34 <Scriptdaemon> If anything, I'll shrink it later.
06:14:22 * ChrisMorgan is not yet decided which method is better: using a [FileWriteN] to put a value in the registry or [RegistryValueWrite]
06:14:48 <ChrisMorgan> HKCU\Software\Safer Networking Limited\SpybotSnD\Language=REG_SZ:%PAL:LanguageCustom%
06:15:28 <Scriptdaemon> That would work?
06:15:39 <ChrisMorgan> Should do.
06:16:53 <ChrisMorgan> Incidental note: your [LanguageFile] won't work, it'll read strings like ``"English"``. ConfigRead on ""Language"="" with TrimRight=""" would work
06:17:26 <ChrisMorgan> Anyway, the launcher by and large looks good :-)
06:18:17 <ChrisMorgan> Besides which I've just realised - the FileWrite2 is wrong - HKCU\Software\Safer Networking Limited\SpybotSnD would need to be HKEY_CURRENT_USER\... to work properly
06:18:56 <Scriptdaemon> Oh, could have sworn the shortcut worked before. I'll change that too.
06:19:34 <ChrisMorgan> It may, but I'm not sure.
06:20:01 <ChrisMorgan> It'd write it to the end of the file, and so you'd get two declarations of the key/value. Not sure precisely what that'd do, may not be consistent.
06:21:48 <Scriptdaemon> Would FileWrite2 need to be a ConfigWrite too then?
06:23:11 <ChrisMorgan> No, because you're writing the quoted string.
06:23:41 <ChrisMorgan> It's just that there's no particularly neat way of pulling out a particular substring with the INI thing. That's why there's TrimRight - I should implement TrimLeft.
06:24:17 <ChrisMorgan> I see what you mean about the icon.
06:24:50 <Scriptdaemon> Yeah, not much I can do about that besides creating one from scratch, which isn't my strong suit.
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06:25:09 <Scriptdaemon> Maybe they'll have a decent one when they release 2.0, whenever that is.
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06:26:10 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon: you've also made me get round to enabling awstats on my site. Pity I didn't do it earlier - it only shows a couple of days back.
06:26:37 <ChrisMorgan> I can tell people don't use Spybot Search & Destroy because of the look of its website...
06:27:03 <Scriptdaemon> Yeah. I mean it's pretty popular, but it looks like a high schooler did it.
06:28:01 <Scriptdaemon> Hi JohnTHaller.
06:28:05 <ChrisMorgan> Oh come, I could have done better than that last year ;-)
06:28:06 <JohnTHaller> hola
06:28:26 <Scriptdaemon> Jr. High Schooler? =P
06:28:45 <ChrisMorgan> Perhaps.
06:29:04 <ChrisMorgan> And they don't even have a flag on Australia!
06:29:50 <JohnTHaller> wait, australia has a flag now? *runs and hides*
06:29:53 <Scriptdaemon> And there is very little organization as to their other utlities. I believe they plan on implemented a few of them (or all) directly into Spybot, but still.
06:29:55 <Scriptdaemon> LOL.
06:30:10 <Scriptdaemon> implementing*
06:30:36 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: FYI, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Australia
06:30:51 <ChrisMorgan> ;-)
06:31:23 <Scriptdaemon> ChrisMorgan, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1442139/Projects/SpybotPortable_1.6.2_Development_Test_1_English.paf.exe Hopefully that'll be the last one.
06:31:34 <JohnTHaller> Oh, that's just a British flag where someone messed up resizing it in Photoshop (scale image vs canvas size)
06:32:15 <Scriptdaemon> Hahaha.
06:32:43 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: I didn't realise Photoshop existed back then. But still, it's about the sort of thing you might expect to happen using Photoshop rather than the GIMP or Inkscape...
06:33:11 <ChrisMorgan> OK Scriptdaemon, on my site, same URL. Testing now.
06:33:24 <ChrisMorgan> Then POST it rather than doing all your revisions in here :P
06:34:44 <Scriptdaemon> Why post if I'm just going to follow up with a new DT 10 seconds later? =P
06:35:31 <ChrisMorgan> The problem with maintaining public appearances is not doing anything *too* fast.
06:36:56 <ChrisMorgan> I see you stuck with the & even though it breaks the Platform and installer and all ;-)
06:37:11 <JohnTHaller> gnight all
06:37:21 <ChrisMorgan> G'nite JohnTHaller
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06:38:03 <ChrisMorgan> Scriptdaemon: "PortableApps.com Format validation succeeded."
06:38:21 <ChrisMorgan> NO errors, NO warnings, all good :-)
06:38:27 <Scriptdaemon> I'm not doing another DT until at least tomorrow, so yes. Yes I did. =P
06:38:51 <ChrisMorgan> Good, if you wanted to I was going to say not until you've posted it in Beta Testing :-)
06:39:25 <ChrisMorgan> Now I'll actually try /running/ it.
06:39:43 <Scriptdaemon> There was something else I was going to add to the known issues, but I forgot what it was...
06:39:44 <Scriptdaemon> Oh well.
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06:40:47 <ChrisMorgan> Hey Gringoloco__ :-)
06:40:50 <Scriptdaemon> Posted.
06:41:13 <Gringoloco__> hey, ChrisMorgan ! :-)
06:43:55 <ChrisMorgan> One thing I'll need to do in my validation utility is load the icon and check the sizes and bit depths in it. That'll be fun.
06:45:00 <ChrisMorgan> Unfortunately, that'll be a Windows-only feature due to depending on the win32ui and win32gui Python modules which use Windows API calls. At present the validation runs fine on Linux.
06:46:02 <Scriptdaemon> Is that utility going to be packaged as an app?
06:48:32 <ChrisMorgan> At some point.
06:50:36 <ChrisMorgan> Including various other bits and pieces. I'm intending to at least redo the PortableApps.com Launcher Generator in it, too, and tie the Installer in.
06:50:49 <ChrisMorgan> Though I won't redo the Installer at first at least.
06:52:02 <Scriptdaemon> Ah.
06:52:51 <Scriptdaemon> Notice any problems when you ran Spybot Portable?
06:53:51 <ChrisMorgan> I'm just in the process of doing it now.
06:53:55 <ChrisMorgan> Does it need an EULA, by the way?
06:56:05 <Gringoloco__> sorry, got to go again:(
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06:56:15 <Scriptdaemon> For freeware apps I tend to put the license in their. Should I remove it? They wanted to make it clear that Spybot was only for private use.
06:56:20 <Scriptdaemon> there*
06:56:53 <ChrisMorgan> Freeware apps should practically always have an EULA.
06:57:02 <ChrisMorgan> I'm saying S&DP *doesn't* have an EULA
06:57:24 <Scriptdaemon> It doesn't? ...Crap.
06:58:17 <Scriptdaemon> Sorry if that word isn't allowed. I figured it was less offensive than others.
06:58:36 <ChrisMorgan> There's no need to use *any* such word.
07:00:28 <Scriptdaemon> Alright, fixed. Should I do another DT for it now?
07:00:36 <ChrisMorgan> Whatever you wish :-)
07:00:48 <ChrisMorgan> I don't have any issues to report yet.
07:04:26 <ChrisMorgan> That's fun... File > Exit is disabled.
07:05:08 <ChrisMorgan> And on XP SP3 the help file just doesn't work... probably due to IE8 "security" features.
07:05:29 <Scriptdaemon> How odd.
07:05:45 <ChrisMorgan> Well, it's almost up to 10% of its scan... I'm going to kill it, I think. It won'
07:05:50 <ChrisMorgan> t find anything.
07:06:55 <Scriptdaemon> I assume you've tested the updater?
07:07:19 <Scriptdaemon> Should I note that the immunization feature isn't portable?
07:10:46 <Scriptdaemon> Eh, already done.
07:11:10 <ChrisMorgan> It's pretty obvious. Most of what it does isn't portable (but is designed to be helpful)
07:13:58 <ChrisMorgan> Haven't finished my testing but I've got to go now. I'll post my full results when I'm done. Bye.
07:14:09 <ChrisMorgan> Email me when you wish to put files on my server.
07:14:17 <ChrisMorgan> Or come in here and I'll often be in
07:14:28 <Scriptdaemon> Alright.
07:15:04 <Scriptdaemon> Night, I'm going to head off to bed as well.
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07:28:29 * auscompgeek looks at backscroll
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12:37:43 <Gringoloco> ChrisMorgan: I basically have the registry issue fixed, and will send it this evening (my time)
12:38:15 <ChrisMorgan> OK, thanks. Then I'll see about integrating it and updating it. Any docs changes for it?
12:38:26 <Gringoloco> Maybe you want to have a look at it to give your opinion about it (since I'm online ATM)
12:38:27 <ChrisMorgan> Or just a mention in the release notes?
12:38:45 <ChrisMorgan> If you want to I'm happy to
12:39:29 <ChrisMorgan> I still need to write documentation for your wildcards stuff. Did it end up supporting wildcards at any level and/or multiple levels? I can't remember
12:39:37 <Gringoloco> the movekey fix : http://pastebin.com/WtmyhTJY
12:40:11 <Gringoloco> Wildcards, I believe so, but have to have a look at it again
12:41:01 <ChrisMorgan> Thanks
12:41:52 <Gringoloco> at any level, but only once !
12:42:02 <ChrisMorgan> OK.
12:42:39 <ChrisMorgan> It's a pity macro nesting doesn't work in NSIS.
12:42:51 * Gringoloco wishes he puts more comments into his code, to be able to understand what he done before ;)
12:43:58 <ChrisMorgan> :-)
12:44:23 <Gringoloco> ChrisMorgan: the only thing I changed in RegistryKeys segment is a check in SegmentPrePrimary if moving failed or not
12:45:18 <ChrisMorgan> I think for the moment I'd put this as a new macro in Segments\Registry.nsh (as you can't undefine a macro), RegistryMoveKeyNew or something like that.
12:46:37 <Gringoloco> You are able to stick in the Registry.nsh header file into the PAL source folder and it will include that instead of the one in the Nsis include folder
12:46:38 <ChrisMorgan> ``IntCmp ${_ERR} -1 +15`` +15 is Pop ${_ERR}, looks like you meant +16
12:47:40 <Gringoloco> I only count 15, and I done a variable/push'n pop test on it
12:48:07 <ChrisMorgan> But with +15, 0 is the current line, right?
12:48:11 <Gringoloco> do not count the commented line, you know !
12:48:21 <ChrisMorgan> Arg, sorry
12:48:29 <Gringoloco> 0 or 1 act as the same
12:49:18 <ChrisMorgan> Well, +1 anyway. Not certain if 1 is the same as +1... if it works the same way as some architectures, the 1 would be an absolute position. I doubt that's it though.
12:49:23 <Gringoloco> I always use a test script I made for this, testing all variables and the stack, to make sure it's all ok
12:49:30 <ChrisMorgan> Yeah, very wise.
12:49:36 <Gringoloco> you're right +1
12:49:48 <ChrisMorgan> As for registry.nsh, I'd prefer not to put all the big long file in when it's just one macro changed.
12:50:54 <Gringoloco> Up to you, but then you have to rename and undefine it. Doesn't seem that clean to me
12:51:32 <ChrisMorgan> Rename it for the moment, then when it gets included in the next release of NSIS (send it upstream) we can switch back to the real one.
12:51:46 <Gringoloco> Registry.nsh == 6KB
12:52:01 <ChrisMorgan> But still it's lots of lines that just aren't necessary...
12:52:12 <ChrisMorgan> But then I suppose with TextFunc.nsh we did that...
12:52:53 <Gringoloco> and NewTextReplace.nsh, which is actually not needed anymore
12:53:26 <Gringoloco> I'll put in the following line into RegistryKey.nsh :
12:53:28 <Gringoloco> !if ${REGISTRY_NSH_VER} < 2.1
12:53:40 <Gringoloco> !error
12:53:43 <Gringoloco> !endif
12:55:03 <Gringoloco> ah, forget that, that doesn't make much sence
12:55:56 <Gringoloco> Anyway, if you're ok with the way it is now, I'll have another look at it and WInampP this evening and send it
12:56:41 <ChrisMorgan> Sounds good.
12:57:19 <Gringoloco> really should have a look at the translation aswell, when are you releasing the beta
12:57:24 <Gringoloco> ?
12:57:40 <ChrisMorgan> Just a question about what it's doing, it looks to me as though it's copying with the case of moving HKLM to HKCU when it can't delete from HKLM; HKCU to HKLM is taken care of by registry::_MoveKey, right?
12:59:09 <Gringoloco> HKCU to HKLM fails inmediatly cause:
12:59:28 <Gringoloco> 1. it copies but fails so returns -1
12:59:45 <Gringoloco> 2. not deleting anything cause it allready failed
12:59:49 <ChrisMorgan> Yep.
12:59:57 <Gringoloco> as HKLM to HKCU :
13:00:09 <Gringoloco> 1. It copies happily
13:00:25 <Gringoloco> 2. it tries to delete and failes and returns -1
13:00:28 <ChrisMorgan> OK, all happy with it now, fix is good, thanks :-)
13:00:44 <ChrisMorgan> Shall I apply the fix as it is or do you want to modify it at all?
13:01:30 <Gringoloco> I think it's good, but often I realise something extra after leaving a script for a few hours
13:02:00 <Gringoloco> on top of that you'll need an extra few lines in RegistryKeys segment
13:02:48 <ChrisMorgan> Ah yes, that too
13:03:49 <Gringoloco> http://pastebin.com/qF0DueDp
13:03:55 <Gringoloco> line 12 - 14
13:04:24 <Gringoloco> probably it's fine like this
13:16:35 <ChrisMorgan> (Use ${WriteRuntimeData} instead of WriteINIStr, then it's mirrored properly locally and on the portable disk)
13:22:56 <Gringoloco> Argh, all forgot, I had to go out to look for a new stairs with my girl-friend
13:23:45 <Gringoloco> Ah that's one of the new features, have to download the HGtip this evening, but really have to go now
13:23:48 <Gringoloco> sorry
13:25:45 <ChrisMorgan> OK, bye. Just committed it, putting it into the release notes.
13:27:03 <Gringoloco> I'll download that and will use it for WinampP, bey
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14:25:59 <Cool-Dude> Hi I would like some support
14:26:52 <Cool-Dude> I wante to ask apps that says like this t.ex Mp3tag Portable 2.46a Development Test 1. Are they safe to use?
14:32:29 <Cool-Dude> help
14:32:48 <ChrisMorgan> Cool-Dude: they're test apps. Draw your own conclusions, really. Generally they will work approximately, though not necessarily entirely portably.
14:33:39 <Cool-Dude> So in other word use them at your own rsik?
14:33:46 <Cool-Dude> words
14:34:16 <Gizmokid2005> Cool-Dude: pretty much
14:34:23 <Gizmokid2005> some may work better than others
14:35:50 <Cool-Dude> Thanks. I am not gonna risk it. Because it is a new drive. And I dont wanna to mess it up
14:36:10 <Cool-Dude> I can waite
14:36:31 <Cool-Dude> Bye
14:36:36 <ChrisMorgan> That particular one should be fine.
14:36:39 <Cool-Dude> And have a nice day or night
14:36:49 <ChrisMorgan> If you look at the release notes, you'll see nothing much has happened in the way of important changes lately.
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15:14:47 <GizmoBot> sar3th hopes he will have more time for pa soon :/
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16:04:01 <barjavel.freenode.net> Topic for #portableapps is: Welcome to the PortableApps.com support channel. If you need assistance, just say "help!", or ask your question, and WAIT rather than just leaving. | Please don't PM without asking first | This channel is logged: http://nascent-project.org/irc/logs | The #PortableApps IRC rules are here: http://gizmokid2005.com/paircrules Read and abide by them
16:04:01 <barjavel.freenode.net> Users on #portableapps: palogbot dbdii407 BjornH sar3th +GizmoBot Twinkletoes SrgSiler|AFK @MaienM cheasee auscompgeek Suiseiseki StatBot Bensawsome Abracadabra +ZachThibeau ronjn z3uS marlop M4T1A5 @Gizmokid2005
16:04:03 <GizmoBot> palogbot is the logging bot for #portableapps . Logs are found at http://nascent-project.org/irc/logs . If he dies: http://nascent-project.org/portableapps/irc/restart
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18:04:01 <Gringoloco> ah JohnTHaller , can I PM you about something?
18:04:07 <JohnTHaller> sure
18:04:56 <ZachThibeau> howdy John
18:05:32 <JohnTHaller> hola
18:06:56 <ZachThibeau> MaienM has been working on to get me to switch from ubuntu to ArchLinux and all I can say is that he has a convert to Arch
18:07:18 <MaienM> only took me about 15 minutes, too :P
18:07:30 <ZachThibeau> not even iirc
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18:32:41 <OliverKdf> nick OliverK
18:32:44 <OliverKdf> bah
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18:33:23 <OliverK> 'ello
18:33:33 <JohnTHaller> hola
18:34:38 <OliverK> so, I got geany read
18:34:43 <OliverK> ready*
18:34:56 <OliverK> sorry, I'm on my netbook, still getting used to it I guess
18:35:03 <JohnTHaller> ready as in done and ready to post?
18:35:41 <OliverK> yup
18:36:03 <OliverK> I just recompiled it with the new splash and the latest NSIS and pa.com installer
18:36:18 <JohnTHaller> Ok. Anything you want in the release/app page that isn't on the homepage?
18:36:38 <JohnTHaller> And it's the 0.19.1 release right?
18:36:42 <OliverK> yes
18:36:57 <OliverK> and just something along these lines "Geany Portable, in partnership with PortableApps.com and Geany is pleased to announce the first official Geany Portable release for GeanyPortable.org and PortableApps.com "
18:37:04 <JohnTHaller> I'll put it on the list, it should go out today.
18:37:15 <OliverK> I mimicked portableapps for that
18:37:17 <OliverK> cool, thanks
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18:37:53 <JohnTHaller> It'll probably be an italicized line, ala TeamViewer, etc. Like "Geany Portable is packaged by GeanyPortable.org with permission from Geany".
18:38:18 <JohnTHaller> That'll probably be on the app announcement and on the app page itself.
18:39:44 <OliverK> no problem
18:41:38 <JohnTHaller> The "PA.c is proud to release.." has been mostly retired and isn't used on 3rd party apps. It's still in a few announcements (because I cut and paste em and forget to update them) but isn't in newer releases like Opera, VVV, FreeMat, Paul Stretch, etc.
18:42:53 <JohnTHaller> Think "Geany Portable is packaged by GeanyPortable.org with permission from Geany" makes sense wording-wise?
18:43:39 <OliverK> sure
18:43:46 <OliverK> sorry, reading other stuff
18:44:39 <JohnTHaller> Ok. I should be able to push it out later today or tonight, which'll mean a good pickup news/blog wise. For future releases, just drop me an email when you do one (or let me know your RSS feed to watch). We're gonna have a formalized updater mechanism for publishers post-2.0
18:45:00 <OliverK> okay, will do
18:45:05 <JohnTHaller> and thanks for working on it, Oliver :)
18:45:09 <OliverK> I still have a few things to get working
18:45:21 <OliverK> no problem, thanks for working with me to get this released on pa.com
18:45:33 <JohnTHaller> Sure thing
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18:46:16 <JohnTHaller> If all goes as planned (and my dinner plans don't run long), that should be 3 new app releases in the next 20 hours.
18:46:24 <OliverK> nice
18:46:30 <OliverK> what's dinner?
18:47:16 <JohnTHaller> My best friend (like a brother) from 7th grade on is in town for some business meetings. I only get to see him once or twice a year since he moved down to Atlanta.
18:47:41 <OliverK> nice, enjoy
18:48:14 <JohnTHaller> Thanks, I will. I may even see about getting his interest in doing some business side stuff for PA.c so it's off my plate
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21:16:35 <ZachThibeau> hmm still having issues with skining the playlist on ChillPlayer :/
21:17:09 <ZachThibeau> I may have to look at the difference in the older copies of the source for coolplayer and compare it with my own and see if there was any changes from the playlist skinning
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21:46:37 <ZachThibeau> hey John you there?
21:48:17 <JohnTHaller> in a minute
21:49:10 <ZachThibeau> alrighty
21:57:11 <JohnTHaller> ok back
22:00:04 <ZachThibeau> awesome
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22:01:11 <ZachThibeau> anyways I was looking at the Maxthon dev test and so far it's looking pretty solid, I think it could be ready for release, haven't come across any issues yet
22:01:13 <JohnTHaller> I think skinning the playlist was broken a few versions back in CoolPlayer, even though it is still part of most themes (it just doesn't work). Is that what you wanted to know?
22:01:37 <JohnTHaller> Ah right. I haven't re-looked at it myself. Did they fix the default browser prompt and the PAF issues?
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22:01:56 <ZachThibeau> browser prompt not so much but the paf issues looks like it's cleared up
22:02:55 <JohnTHaller> We'll need the default prompt removed. They just need some default settings setup with it turned off. And probably disk cache disabled as well (since it will actually make the app run slower on a flash drive, counterintuitively).
22:04:15 <ZachThibeau> I'll mention that to the developer then
22:04:42 <JohnTHaller> Those are the only definites we require for all portable browsers (above the standard PAF requirements)
22:05:48 <ZachThibeau> ok made the note mentioning that you said about the default browser prompt etc
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22:38:20 <Simeon> hi all
22:38:24 <JohnTHaller> hola
22:38:32 <Simeon> feeling better?
22:38:42 <JohnTHaller> nearly yeah. better but not all better
22:39:15 <Simeon> great. Nice to hear
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22:42:46 <Simeon> @JohnTHaller: I just went through my subscriptions and found a few bug reports of mine I am unsure if you saw them so Ill just post them here and hope you get them fixed (if you havent already): http://portableapps.com/node/24043 http://portableapps.com/node/24052 http://portableapps.com/node/24000
22:45:12 <JohnTHaller> Got the first two on my todo list. Stellarium it varies by system and they have a habit of rejiggering the splash with each version
22:45:22 <JohnTHaller> But neither warranted a revision
22:46:30 <Simeon> ok. Thanks. I just wanted to seize the moment and make sure you have them on your list.
22:47:04 <ChrisMorgan> Simeon: why did you use a batch file in AssaultCube Portable?
22:47:41 <Simeon> local assaultcube uses the bat file too so I thought it was the easiest way to keep using it with the alternate data folder.
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22:48:27 <ChrisMorgan> Well, you modify it as well to specify the data location... just seems to me a bit of a waste.
22:48:52 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: the Backup tool copes with all of Data, not just stuff in subdirectories, doesn't it?
22:48:58 <Simeon> waste?
22:49:05 <ChrisMorgan> Of... something.
22:49:50 <Simeon> I tried calling the commands from inside the NSIS Launcher and then found out it works the way it is now.
22:51:11 <ChrisMorgan> Seeing as it's just a single line batch file, I would just do it in PAL... but hey ho, it's your app, and it gives an interesting aspect to its entry in the PAL manual's "apps using PAL" section :-)
22:51:17 <JohnTHaller> All of Data
22:51:49 <Simeon> I can retry it with PAL - makes updating wasier as I dont have to ajust the bat file.
22:51:54 <ChrisMorgan> That's what I thought. What ZachThibeau said confused me slightly
22:52:05 <JohnTHaller> I would suggest doing it in PAL, too, as then you don't have to rememver to update the BAT (as I missed in my first post of it)
22:52:06 <ChrisMorgan> Simeon: I haven't tested it, but it should just be ``ProgramExecutable=assaultcube\bin_win32\ac_client.exe`` and ``CommandLineArguments=--home="%PAL:DataDir%\settings" --init``
22:52:09 <ZachThibeau> o_O
22:52:46 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: have you tested that Skype thing or should I test it now to see if it's leaving that stuff behind?
22:52:48 <Simeon> does anyone know what the %1 %2 etc is for in the bat?
22:52:49 <ZachThibeau> my name was mentioned
22:54:50 <ChrisMorgan> Simeon: arguments. %* would be all arguments. Seeing as they've just done %1 %2 %3 %4 %5 %6 I presume they didn't know that. Remove it and PAL will take care of it.
22:55:05 <Simeon> ok
22:55:08 <Simeon> will try
22:55:32 <ChrisMorgan> %0 is the script name, then %1, etc. are the arguments. Same as Python's sys.argv.
22:56:00 <Simeon> so it just collects all the 5 arguments passed?
22:57:53 <ChrisMorgan> Yeah, all that batch file is doing really is tacking on the command line arguments, which PAL does normally.
22:57:57 <JohnTHaller> I haven't tested it, it's on the TODO list. If it is left behind it's a Skype bug, but I'll need to work around it.
22:58:08 <ChrisMorgan> If PAL didn't do it, the batch file wouldn't get it...
22:58:16 <Simeon> ok
22:58:23 <Simeon> Gnight all. Looking forward to the updates/new apps ;) and to seeing you all tomorrow (maybe) :)
22:59:49 <ChrisMorgan> Bye
23:01:20 <Simeon> one thing Chris:IS there a way for PAL to move files which arent there when the program is run but exist in %APPDATA% because the program created them while running?
23:06:38 <ChrisMorgan> If you mean just not there first time, [FilesMove] does that
23:07:07 <ChrisMorgan> If you mean you don't want to save them, just backup and delete them, like [DirectoriesMove] with the key -, not yet
23:07:28 <Simeon> yes. I mean what does filesMove do if its just a "move back" thing the first time beacuse the file got created.
23:07:47 <ChrisMorgan> It takes it.
23:08:06 <Simeon> ok-was under the impression it wouldnt work - gotta retry.
23:08:07 <ChrisMorgan> Backup local, run, file created so copy/move back, then restore backup.
23:09:10 <Simeon> ok thx
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23:50:56 <Scriptdaemon> ChrisMorgan, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1442139/Projects/SpybotPortable_1.6.2_Development_Test_3_English.paf.exe Everything other the Eventlog stuff should be fixed.
23:51:36 <ChrisMorgan> Done