IRC Log from 2010-11-04
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02:36:27 <pa_8655> hi, when installing the portable apps software the destination folder is blank do i install on the flash drive or pick a folder in windows?
02:37:32 <pa_8655> help!
02:37:32 <GizmoBot> pa_8655: Welcome to the PortableApps.com official chatroom. Ask your question and someone should be able to help you shortly. If you still don't get an answer, try posting on the forums: http://portableapps.com/forums
02:37:48 <pa_8655> hi, when installing the portable apps software the destination folder is blank do i install on the flash drive or pick a folder in windows?
02:38:19 <ChrisMorgan> pa_8655: install it to the root of the USB disk.
02:38:57 <pa_8655> thats what I thought, but thought i better double check, THANKS
02:39:33 <pa_8655> Its the platform set up that I am installing
02:41:17 <pa_8655> worked great thanks again for your help
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02:46:36 <ChrisMorgan> uh oh...
02:47:30 <ZachThibeau> uh oh?
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02:49:09 <ChrisMorgan> ZachThibeau: another big big spammer
02:49:23 <ZachThibeau> it never stops :/
02:54:02 <ChrisMorgan> This is the second time it's happened - last time it was ~250 in ~36 minutes, this time it was 92 in about 15 minutes - I noticed it faster this time.
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03:33:25 <ZachThibeau> anyways night
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11:09:58 <Kris_> help
11:14:26 <Kris_> BeckySanderlin
11:14:49 <Kris_> how does this thing work?
11:15:10 <Kris_> never IRC
11:18:29 <Kris_> BeckySanderlin`x:
11:19:37 <Kris_> ChrisMorgan: can u help me?
11:20:04 <ChrisMorgan> Kris_: if you don't say what you want help with, we can't help you. Please don't ask to ask - just ask.
11:22:51 <Kris_> they say i can use it on any flash (usb), what i want to know is can it be use on a Sandisk U3 flash drive since its like portable app
11:25:29 <Kris_> the reason, because some of the programs here is the ones that came installed on there drive or do you sugest that i get a different drive?
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11:28:47 <ChrisMorgan> Ah well, I was just typing a response.
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18:19:02 <barjavel.freenode.net> Topic for #portableapps is: Welcome to the PortableApps.com support channel. If you need assistance, just say "help!", or ask your question, and WAIT rather than just leaving. | Please don't PM without asking first | This channel is logged: http://nascent-project.org/irc/logs | The #PortableApps IRC rules are here: http://gizmokid2005.com/paircrules Read and abide by them
18:19:02 <barjavel.freenode.net> Users on #portableapps: palogbot ronjn markomlm AppGuy benedikt93 BjornH BeckySanderlin`x Suiseiseki dbdii407 cheasee Bensawsome @MaienM sar3th SrgSiler|AFK k4r4mb4 +ZachThibeau +GizmoBot auscompgeek StatBot z3uS M4T1A5 @Gizmokid2005
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18:19:04 <GizmoBot> palogbot is the logging bot for #portableapps . Logs are found at http://nascent-project.org/irc/logs . If he dies: http://nascent-project.org/portableapps/irc/restart
18:19:10 <GizmoBot> palogbot is the logging bot for #portableapps . Logs are found at http://nascent-project.org/irc/logs . If he dies: http://nascent-project.org/portableapps/irc/restart
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18:19:29 <barjavel.freenode.net> Topic for #portableapps is: Welcome to the PortableApps.com support channel. If you need assistance, just say "help!", or ask your question, and WAIT rather than just leaving. | Please don't PM without asking first | This channel is logged: http://nascent-project.org/irc/logs | The #PortableApps IRC rules are here: http://gizmokid2005.com/paircrules Read and abide by them
18:19:29 <barjavel.freenode.net> Users on #portableapps: palogbot ronjn markomlm AppGuy benedikt93 BjornH BeckySanderlin`x Suiseiseki dbdii407 cheasee Bensawsome @MaienM sar3th SrgSiler|AFK k4r4mb4 +ZachThibeau +GizmoBot auscompgeek StatBot z3uS M4T1A5 @Gizmokid2005
18:19:29 <GizmoBot> palogbot is the logging bot for #portableapps . Logs are found at http://nascent-project.org/irc/logs . If he dies: http://nascent-project.org/portableapps/irc/restart
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18:19:34 <GizmoBot> palogbot is the logging bot for #portableapps . Logs are found at http://nascent-project.org/irc/logs . If he dies: http://nascent-project.org/portableapps/irc/restart
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18:22:21 <barjavel.freenode.net> Topic for #portableapps is: Welcome to the PortableApps.com support channel. If you need assistance, just say "help!", or ask your question, and WAIT rather than just leaving. | Please don't PM without asking first | This channel is logged: http://nascent-project.org/irc/logs | The #PortableApps IRC rules are here: http://gizmokid2005.com/paircrules Read and abide by them
18:22:21 <barjavel.freenode.net> Users on #portableapps: palogbot ronjn markomlm AppGuy benedikt93 BjornH BeckySanderlin`x Suiseiseki dbdii407 cheasee Bensawsome @MaienM sar3th SrgSiler|AFK k4r4mb4 +ZachThibeau +GizmoBot auscompgeek StatBot z3uS M4T1A5 @Gizmokid2005
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18:22:23 <GizmoBot> palogbot is the logging bot for #portableapps . Logs are found at http://nascent-project.org/irc/logs . If he dies: http://nascent-project.org/portableapps/irc/restart
18:22:26 <GizmoBot> ...
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18:33:38 <Someone_> ZachThibeau: Is Pchat 2.0 coming along?
18:34:21 <ZachThibeau> it's coming along, slower than I originally thought, but feature wise got over %50 functionality reimplimented
18:36:48 <Someone_> I wonder if you improved the input box a bit... multiline edit and a better insertion (KVIrc style) of style codes comes to mind
18:37:18 <ZachThibeau> well right now focus is getting functionlity that was in PChat 1.x first
18:37:39 <Someone_> Guess that's how it goes with a rebuild it from scratch
18:37:52 <Someone_> rebuilding*
18:38:24 <ZachThibeau> in the end it would be easier to maintain though as wxwidgets has better multi operating system support than gtk has
18:40:09 <Someone_> Did you move the timestamp to after the seperator in the chat box like a screen shot in your site shows, this would finally make this feature usable :P
18:42:07 <ZachThibeau> well the timestamp was related to fe-gtk's xtext control which was a custom one, right now we are using a straight out of the box text control from wxwidgets default tookit, (soon to be replaced with wxwebkit for theming purposes :P)
18:43:39 <Someone_> If you really want to go crazy you can add UPnP for DCC chats :P
18:44:38 <ZachThibeau> I've tried using miniupnp but haven't had the time to impliment it due to the fact I'm trying to finish up the 1.x line and move into full time 2.0 coding
18:45:11 <Someone_> So you already though of that... lol
18:45:57 <ZachThibeau> it's definetly on the to do list, just not #1 priority though
18:47:36 <Someone_> Good luck
18:47:44 <Someone_> manging to recode pchat
18:48:27 <ZachThibeau> right now I'm pretty close to finishing the 1.x line using minigtk, just got a few undefined references to work out and hopefully will have a nice release of PChat that will be almost on par with the shareware xchat build
18:49:28 <Someone_> nice :)
18:49:54 <ZachThibeau> but yeah thanks to the rewrite we also made some core optimizations that also inadvertantly affected fe-gtk in a nice way :P
18:50:37 <ZachThibeau> we made the core less reliant to gtk (the only dependency it requires now is glib atm) and it's getting better each day
18:50:57 <ZachThibeau> and I'm just glad I'm not working alone anymore, got a core team of 2 other people working with me now
18:51:39 <Someone_> No longer a solo product :P
18:52:54 <ZachThibeau> no longer a solo product, in fact because I'm working with other people, the wxwidgets idea has gone from an idea to a reality thanks to 1 guy named Luis, a bit of a code hoger at times but that's because he wants to make sure his code is done right the first time and not have to go back and redo it
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18:55:30 <Someone_> Say what happens to the forums? (the pchat website ones)
18:55:37 <Someone_> happened*
18:58:22 <ZachThibeau> it's being restyled
18:58:46 <ZachThibeau> and it's still under development atm
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21:27:29 <Y3K> help!
21:27:29 <GizmoBot> Y3K: Welcome to the PortableApps.com official chatroom. Ask your question and someone should be able to help you shortly. If you still don't get an answer, try posting on the forums: http://portableapps.com/forums
21:28:00 <Y3K> Hello everybody. Maybe someone remembers me (Gringoloco :P)
21:28:32 <Y3K> I still trying to make a PortableApp, but still had some confusion, dubts and issues.
21:29:00 <sar3th> i think i do remember :)
21:29:00 <Y3K> I did posted a new reply on my topic from 3 weeks ago.
21:29:01 <Y3K> http://portableapps.com/node/25234
21:29:16 <Y3K> Oh! Hi Sar3th!
21:29:20 <Y3K> Yeah, I remember you too :)
21:30:34 <Y3K> If anyone could help me just a little.. I'd be really grateful!
21:30:56 <sar3th> sure, thing, just fire your questions
21:31:14 <Y3K> This makes me feel sad but... I think that I need a step by step tut :(
21:31:20 <Y3K> What goes firts?
21:31:26 <Y3K> The installer or the launcher?
21:31:31 <Y3K> Or the NSIS?
21:31:32 <sar3th> the launcher
21:31:38 <Y3K> I just don't get it.
21:31:43 <Y3K> Ok.
21:31:53 <sar3th> first, you look at the program and check where it stores its data or what modifications to the system it makes
21:31:58 <Y3K> So, I have my VM so I won't have any false entry in the reg.
21:32:06 <Y3K> Ok, with the regshot.
21:32:09 <Y3K> I have that.
21:32:18 <sar3th> yes, for example with regshot
21:32:18 <Y3K> (Also my folders accord the PAF 2.0)
21:32:33 <sar3th> then you create your launcher which handles these modifications, i.e. reverses them or takes care if they already exist etc
21:32:50 <Y3K> Ok, I know where it stores files and what entries modify/create.
21:33:07 <sar3th> then you have two options:
21:33:13 <sar3th> 1. use PAL
21:33:17 <sar3th> 2. code a launcher yourself
21:33:26 <Y3K> Heheheh :P
21:33:37 <Y3K> I think I've pretty clear my choice
21:33:43 <sar3th> (the later one is more difficult, since you will need to actually understand NSIS and be able to program)
21:33:56 <Y3K> And I'm not able to...
21:34:11 <sar3th> which choice did you make?
21:34:21 <Y3K> The first one, with PAL.
21:34:24 <Y3K> Lol :P
21:34:35 <sar3th> okay good
21:34:47 <sar3th> did you download PAL already?
21:34:52 <Y3K> I'm on it.
21:35:05 <Y3K> I deleted it when closed the VM :(
21:35:21 <sar3th> okay. PAL /should/ come with a documentation which will tell you how to use and configure it properly
21:35:35 <sar3th> keep in mind that PAL needs NSIS Portable (Unicode)
21:35:57 <Y3K> Ok, everything I have is...
21:36:25 <Y3K> RegShot, PAI, PAL, NIS Edit Portable and the app installer.
21:36:29 <Y3K> Is that enough?
21:36:39 *** ZachThibeau is now known as ZachT|DnD
21:37:14 <sar3th> you will need NSIS Portable (Unicode) as well since PAL requires that
21:37:33 <Y3K> *Downloading it*
21:38:37 <Y3K> Ok, finally... I know where the trick is, in the PAL (for now)
21:38:39 <Y3K> I'll read the docs.
21:38:43 <Y3K> :)
21:38:53 <sar3th> okay)
21:39:06 <sar3th> feel free to stop by and ask if you run into any difficulties
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21:39:34 <Y3K> Oh, another question. I have my html file where all the changes are saved (files and entries), but what about them? Should I do something with these now or later?
21:39:52 <Y3K> Thank you sar3th! You're so kind and helpful :)
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21:48:29 <sar3th> Y3K: yes, these are the things you probably want to look into with your launcher and eventually find a way to handle them
21:49:16 <Y3K> Yes ;) I'm reading the entire manual of the PAL right now (launcher.ini yet), I'll let you know when I finish, or have question :P
21:49:20 <Y3K> Thank you so much :D!
21:50:39 <sar3th> you're welcome Y3K
21:55:30 <Y3K> Are spaces allowed in "launcher.ini"?
21:55:51 <Y3K> For example ProgramExecutable=App name\App Exc.exe
21:55:58 <Y3K> Or must be wraped in quotes?
21:56:18 <sar3th> hm, i don't know that, do you ChrisMorgan?
21:56:29 <sar3th> (Chris is the developer of PAL)
21:56:51 <Y3K> Wow! Awesome :)
21:56:54 <ChrisMorgan> They're allowed, but it's recommended that you not put spaces in the app directory - we prefer to use App\AppName rather than App\App name
21:57:11 <ChrisMorgan> Thought about chipping in earlier but you're doing well, sar3th :-)
21:57:18 <Y3K> But what happen if the spaces is in the name of the exe?
21:57:39 <Y3K> Can I change the name of it?
21:57:44 <ChrisMorgan> That's fine, that's the base app's decision.
21:57:57 <Y3K> Oh, all right.
21:58:07 <Y3K> Thanks for your help, Chris :)
21:59:22 <ChrisMorgan> topics/ and ref/launcher.ini/ are the two main places to get help with the launcher. General information is in topics/. I'd also recommend that you use the 2.1 manual which is generally better - features in 2.1 not in 2.0 are marked as such, too. http://portableapps.chrismorgan.info/launcher/manual
22:00:19 <Y3K> All right, let me start with the manual then :P Thanks.
22:03:44 <Y3K> An "off-topic" doubt about the PAL Chris... How "powerful" is it? I mean, hopefuly I'll be able to make PortableApps soon (thanks to you and sar3th of course), and the truth is I'd love try with a BIG app, something like Photoshop (I'm a designer), this isn't a reality of course, but I'd like to know if I can do it with the PAF (using PAL of course), what do you think?
22:05:09 <Y3K> (Just to be clear, of course I wouldn't redistribute it, I've my own license and all.)
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22:09:09 <sar3th> it is heavily dependant on the application, perhaps PAL would need to be amended to handle everything, but it should be accomplishable i think
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22:11:26 <Y3K> Really? This is so good! The other day I found a portable version of it, but it left the AppData behind (presets, plugins and more), I'll want to put it everything together, with the PAF of course.
22:11:36 <Y3K> Ok, I'll continue with the manual, thanks :)
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22:32:02 <Y3K> Chris: Do you have a offline version of the manual for 2.1? I do really want to read it all (many times, I'm not getting everything for the first time :P).
22:33:05 <ChrisMorgan> Y3K: it's available in text form in the hg repository
22:33:34 <Y3K> hg?
22:33:41 <ChrisMorgan> http://portableapps.hg.sourceforge.net/hgweb/portableapps/launcher/
22:34:30 <ChrisMorgan> So the text of the manual is in http://portableapps.hg.sourceforge.net/hgweb/portableapps/launcher/file/tip/Other/Source/Manual - if you download http://portableapps.hg.sourceforge.net/hgweb/portableapps/launcher/archive/tip.zip, it's in Other\Source\Manual
22:34:56 <ChrisMorgan> Or there's just the easy way which I briefly forgot: get 2.1 Beta 1 and it's built in there.
22:35:06 <ChrisMorgan> http://portableapps.com/node/25449
22:36:19 <Y3K> Awesome! Thank you again Chris :)
22:36:26 <Y3K> I see you like Python ;)
22:38:17 <ChrisMorgan> Naturally.
22:38:29 <ChrisMorgan> What exactly did you gather that from, though?
22:38:55 <Y3K> Eh... Sorry? I don't understand :(
22:39:28 <ChrisMorgan> What led you to believe I like Python?
22:39:57 <Y3K> Ah! I saw some .py documents in there (SF).
22:40:22 <Y3K> I don't see that format too often on the Internet, so I thought you like it.
22:41:49 <ChrisMorgan> conf.py and _ext/paldocs.py are just because I've used Sphinx for the documentation (potentially related to liking Python but not really - it's just the best system for it). topics/languages-table.py is the only "genuine" use of Python in the PAL manual.
22:42:19 <ChrisMorgan> What you should really find amusing is that Other\Source\make_release is a bash script. I build PAL releases on Linux.
22:43:04 <Y3K> Woah! Amazing.
22:43:27 <Y3K> Well, that's what made me thought you like python (and the clean of your code too).
22:43:45 <ChrisMorgan> :D
22:43:47 <Y3K> Well, nothing I could really understand too :(
22:43:49 <Y3K> Hehehe.
22:44:24 <ChrisMorgan> If I could have written PAL in Python, I almost certainly would have. The problem with that is the size of the runtime.
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22:45:02 <Y3K> The size of the runtime... Do you mean a slower run?
22:45:20 <MaienM|Sleep> no, the program python itself
22:45:25 <MaienM|Sleep> it is quite large
22:45:28 <ChrisMorgan> No, I mean the fact that it'd require the Python runtime which is a couple of megabytes.
22:45:36 <Y3K> Ahhhhhh yes!
22:45:38 <Y3K> I got it :P
22:45:49 <Y3K> Windows, doesn't have it by default :(
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22:46:03 <Y3K> But it would work faster don't you think?
22:46:27 <Y3K> Personally, I'd preffer a 3mb heavier app if that means a faster app :D
22:47:24 <ChrisMorgan> Speed is entirely irrelevant with the launcher. It's fast enough.
22:47:49 <Y3K> Yes it is :P I just wanted to motivate you :P
22:48:26 <ChrisMorgan> You failed :-)
22:48:37 <Y3K> Haha, sorry about that :P
22:48:43 <sar3th> Y3K: NSIS compiles the launcher's code into a true executable, hence it is probably faster than python
22:49:23 <Y3K> Ooooh! Hell this is so amazing. You guys are gurus xD!
22:50:07 <Y3K> I'm not a programmer (that's more than obvious...), but I've many experience with a few languages, and Python is the most usual :P
22:53:36 <ChrisMorgan> sar3th: it doesn't, actually; it's much, much, /much/ slower than Python. It has a stub and then just includes all the instructions (as a sort of byte code) - the stub then just goes through that region interpreting the instructions one by one in a big case block... that's how it avoids being 'normously big by needing to include a genuine compiler.
22:54:31 <Y3K> I'm finally undersanding how it works... At the first, we need to know what changes the Base App does to the system, what files create and registry keys. Then we need the inctructions for the PAL, write all the code needed for the NSIS, and this one mades our AppPortable.exe
22:54:34 <Y3K> Am I right?
22:54:59 <sar3th> yes Y3K
22:55:17 <sar3th> ChrisMorgan: heh. guess it makes nsis to an interpreted language then
22:56:27 <ChrisMorgan> sar3th: indeed, with a byte code compiler. But its performance is really excruciatingly bad. Just for what it's normally used for, the performance is sufficient.
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22:56:44 <pa_9612> hello
22:56:55 <Y3K> [...] for the PAL, which writes [...] and this one makes our [...]
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22:57:35 <ChrisMorgan> Y3K: only a few features in PAL are enabled at compile time; almost all you can edit launcher.ini and not need to regenerate the launcher - it reads the values at runtime.
22:58:10 <Y3K> Oh, all right :)
22:58:30 <Y3K> That's what I need (and will write), a step by step tutorial :P
23:00:21 <Y3K> Well, I'm with the theory right now, but I don't know yet when handle the files... The PAL will copy those from Pogram Files to App/AppName by itself when I run it or I need to move everything manually? Puting them in "AppName" "defaulData"?
23:02:15 <ChrisMorgan> You've got to do all that.
23:02:40 <ChrisMorgan> And remember you should *not* use App\AppName - that's for an app called App Name. Use App\Squiggle for Squiggle, etc.
23:02:55 <Y3K> Yes, I've that very clear :P
23:03:17 <Y3K> Ok, I'll promise you to write an awesome tut explaining all this ;)
23:03:45 <Y3K> That way you shouldn't repeat it again :P (I think I'm enough annoying for you)
23:05:05 <ChrisMorgan> I've started writing a step-by-step guide probably for inclusion in 2.1; if you wish to do one, that's great - having written PAL, I'm not the ideal documentation writer for it.
23:06:18 <Y3K> Ok, you can finish yours and I'd really enjoy to write a "remake" explaining it for less "high tech skilled" people xD
23:06:32 <ChrisMorgan> No, you write yours and email it to me this afternoon.
23:06:34 <ChrisMorgan> ;-)
23:06:49 <Y3K> I can't write it today ._.
23:07:04 <Y3K> Well, gotta go.
23:07:12 <Y3K> I'll be back to show you my progress :D
23:07:20 <Y3K> See ya, and thanks for everything.
23:08:18 <ChrisMorgan> Enjoy :-)
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23:12:03 <sar3th> bye Y3k
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