IRC Log from 2010-12-10
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00:05:31 <flyback> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_c3fKEuHW4 <---- AHAHAA YOU GO TO HELL AND YOU DIE!
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00:06:17 <ChrisMorgan> .title
00:06:18 <GizmoBot> ChrisMorgan: YouTube - Scrap Yard Rain Storm and Goodies - Euro Diesel Delight
00:07:01 <JohnTHaller> odd
00:07:05 <ChrisMorgan> Indeed.
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01:32:01 <GizmoBot> ZachThibeau is the main developer of PChat and is a developer with PortableApps.com
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02:38:25 <GizmoBot> dbdii407 is Dave, Owner of the ScrapIRC Network.
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02:38:33 <ZachThibeau> anyways John you may want to hold on to that PChat update, found a bug related to dcc file transfers where saved filenames are being malformed names, by saturday 1.4 should be out
02:40:01 <ZachThibeau> hopefully fixing the said issue, I'll keep you appraised once it's ready
02:40:02 <JohnTHaller> Ok
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02:56:36 <GizmoBot> OliverK is a programmer, podcaster, html spelunker and pretty handy with a screwdriver. In short, not to be trifled with.
02:56:59 <JohnTHaller> WinDjView is up
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03:16:56 <GizmoBot> McNinja is ???
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03:31:29 <GizmoBot> OliverK is a programmer, podcaster, html spelunker and pretty handy with a screwdriver. In short, not to be trifled with.
03:45:35 <ChrisMorgan> Thanks JohnTHaller :-)\
03:45:53 <JohnTHaller> Sure thing.
03:46:06 <JohnTHaller> Thanks for putting it together. Nother good app out there for people to use
03:46:52 <ChrisMorgan> On the app page you show the icon at 120x100 when it's 128x128 :-/
03:46:56 <ChrisMorgan> Shall I fix that?
03:47:11 <JohnTHaller> Please do. CopyPasta error from Sumatra
03:47:38 <ChrisMorgan> I mean 150x108 (I was looking at the wrong one)
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04:49:54 <pa_1807> Hi! Is this the place to ask for help about independent applications (Thunderbird Portable, for instance)?
04:50:14 <JohnTHaller> What problem are you having?
04:50:23 <pa_1807> I just upgraded my 2 independent Thunderbird installs to the latest version (3.1.7), but now I can no longer open them at the same time. I am on XP SP3.
04:51:03 <JohnTHaller> Technically, they're not supposed to run at the same time unless you have a specific setting enabled. It's called AllowMultipleInstances and requires an INI setting.
04:51:12 <JohnTHaller> An example INI and a readme about it are in Other\Source
04:51:40 <JohnTHaller> Keep in mind that it will leave bits behind when you do this including, possibly, your TB account name which could be your email address
04:51:44 <pa_1807> I had that done before, and I thought that the upgrade might have overwritten it, so I recopied and changed that setting, but it still doesn't work.
04:52:17 <JohnTHaller> Nothing in the launcher is changed to alter that setting. It could be they removed it from TB itself as it's never been officiallly supported. You using two portable instances?
04:52:47 <pa_1807> Oh, I see. Yes, I was keeping my work and home life separate.
04:52:59 <pa_1807> Well, trying to at least :-P
04:53:40 <JohnTHaller> Let me check something for you... just a minute...
04:53:51 <pa_1807> Okay, thank you.
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04:55:54 <JohnTHaller> I can confirm that the environment setting MOZ_NO_REMOTE is being ignored by TB 3.1.7. That;s the way we tell TB to allow multiple instances
04:56:40 <pa_1807> I see.
04:56:58 <JohnTHaller> Hang on a minute
04:57:07 <pa_1807> Sure.
04:57:46 <JohnTHaller> Ok, got it.
04:57:56 <JohnTHaller> Edit your ThunderbirdPortable.ini file and set this line:
04:57:57 <pa_1807> Wow, you're fast.
04:57:58 <JohnTHaller> AdditionalParameters=-no-remote
04:58:22 <JohnTHaller> They deprecated the environment variable and made it a command line. That should work for you, I confirmed it on my machine
04:59:53 <pa_1807> You're right, of course. :-)
04:59:59 <JohnTHaller> Working?
05:00:21 <pa_1807> Yes, I just changed the ini file in my two instances.
05:00:27 <JohnTHaller> Great
05:00:34 <pa_1807> I really appreciate your help!
05:01:08 <JohnTHaller> You're welcome pa_1807. Glad it's working for you. Please help spread the word about PA.c :)
05:02:22 <pa_1807> Don't worry about that. I've convinced dozens of people that PortableApps are the way to go.
05:02:38 <JohnTHaller> Well, thanks for that :)
05:03:02 <pa_1807> No, thank you for all you've done.
05:03:07 <JohnTHaller> You're welcome
05:15:43 * ChrisMorgan should see how GanttProject Portable runs on a clean machine - whether something should be improved with PAL's "can't find Java" response.
05:16:39 <ChrisMorgan> Oh... it's "jPortable" now, is it?
05:17:40 <ChrisMorgan> Seems to be significantly mixed labelling of "jPortable", "jPortable Launcher", "Java Portable" and "Java Portable Launcher".
05:18:01 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, part of the negotiations with Oracle
05:18:16 <JohnTHaller> Can't use the words Java, JVM, JRE, JDK, etc in the name
05:18:41 <ChrisMorgan> Then I think it needs to be all fixed to read that way.
05:19:21 <JohnTHaller> Oh, I've only been updating the actual Java Portable homepage so far.
05:19:26 <JohnTHaller> Until Oracle gives final approval
05:19:37 <JohnTHaller> So the rest of the site is OK still referencing it the old way.
05:19:48 <ChrisMorgan> I was just going to say that it would be good if http://portableapps.com/java could redirect to http://portableapps.com/apps/utilities/java_portable. "Please go to PortableApps.com/Java" would be a nice message for it.
05:20:14 <JohnTHaller> Hmmm.. true
05:20:50 <JohnTHaller> done
05:20:58 <JohnTHaller> http://portableapps.com/java
05:38:14 <JohnTHaller> Alright, I must be off to bed. Now that Seamonkey is out, I think I'm good for the night. Need more than 3 hours this time.
05:42:31 <ChrisMorgan> G'nite
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06:14:36 <auscompgeek> why was the launcher even using the environment variable?
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06:53:36 <ChrisMorgan> auscompgeek: when AllowMultipleInstances is on, it does that.
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07:23:20 <auscompgeek> ChrisMorgan: I know, but why was it used in the first place?
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09:34:38 <_9a4gl> Hi.. I am starting to make my application portable.. How do I detect from my code if application is running as portable or as regular application from hard drive ? Checking some environment variable or ?
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11:53:39 <GizmoBot> sar3th hopes he will have more time for pa soon :/
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18:05:21 <ZachThibeau> howdy John
18:05:34 <ZachThibeau> I think 1.4 maybe ready today :)
18:05:58 <ZachThibeau> just testing out my fix for the filename issue that was reported when trying to save a file via dcc
18:07:58 <JohnTHaller> cool
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18:32:40 <Scriptdaemon> JohnTHaller, what's on the queue for today?
18:32:50 <JohnTHaller> Dunno yet
18:33:32 <Scriptdaemon> I wanted to ask, is Scribus on your queue for sometime this month? I think that would be a good one for PA.c.
18:33:44 <JohnTHaller> Is it done?
18:34:08 <Scriptdaemon> It's posted in the ready for release thread, but I'd have to look again to see how long ago that was.
18:34:37 <JohnTHaller> I know it's an outdated version of it.
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18:43:20 <Scriptdaemon> Yeah.
18:44:38 <Scriptdaemon> Oh, wait. Maybe not. Apparently there's a bug in his launcher or something. Shame.
18:46:13 <JohnTHaller> Actually 1.3.3.14 is the current stable
18:46:28 <JohnTHaller> And that one works fine. It's just the 1.4 dev version where home doesn't work anymore
18:46:34 <Scriptdaemon> Ah.
18:47:06 <Scriptdaemon> So is this one looking favorable?
18:47:16 <JohnTHaller> Guess I could pull that one and double check for errors and release it. But may do that on Mon or Tues so it doesn't get lost over the weekend
18:47:29 <Scriptdaemon> Ah.
18:48:20 <Scriptdaemon> Hmm. I don't want to suggest another game just yet since I'd rather add something more functional to PA.c...
18:49:26 <Scriptdaemon> TuxGuitar?
18:52:14 <ZachThibeau> I think maybe Maxthon Portable seems fairly good
18:52:50 <Scriptdaemon> Oh yeah, I forgot about that one.
18:54:26 <JohnTHaller> True. Specially since they are doing it directly
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18:56:35 <Scriptdaemon> Are you going to keep legacy versions for this like you do the other browsers?
18:56:41 <JohnTHaller> Nah
18:58:59 <Scriptdaemon> Oh, are you going to list Wireshark on PA.c at some point? Is it not stable yet?
18:59:20 <JohnTHaller> Outdated installer and PA.c Format. Have a bug report filed and working with them on it.
18:59:28 <Scriptdaemon> Gotcha.
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19:05:10 <Scriptdaemon> they added a VLC app to uTorrent. I wonder if I can get it working with VLC Portable. *Strokes chin*
19:05:43 <MarkSikkema> JohnTHaller: The current launcher of Scribus is buggy, it definitly needs updating end additinal testing
19:06:04 <JohnTHaller> For 1.3.3 or 1.3.8? They are two very different releases.
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19:07:42 <MarkSikkema> Hmm, lets see...
19:08:07 <JohnTHaller> I know 1.3.8 is buggy because it was using HOME to do the redirect which apparently works in 1.3.3 but not in 1.3.8
19:08:48 <MarkSikkema> I done my testing at November 21, 2010, http://portableapps.com/node/22525#comment-164454
19:09:28 <MarkSikkema> I guess that must have been Scribus Portable 1.3.3.14 Development Test 4
19:09:40 <JohnTHaller> Right, but from your results and his response, it sounds like that was a test of 1.3.8 (aka 1.4 pre-beta) which we wouldn't do a release of anyway.
19:10:54 <MarkSikkema> I lost the whole folder one day :( , re-downloading nowto check it out
19:12:15 <MarkSikkema> I found the folder, it was 1.3.3.14 , at least according to the appinfo.ini
19:16:26 <MarkSikkema> I tested 1.3.3.14 and found the bugs, so he replied that he was working on 1.3.8 which hasn't got the home variable working...
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19:17:22 <MarkSikkema> what you could do is use the HOME variable for 1.3.3.14 and make sure you test it properly, maybe even add the language switching
19:17:51 <JohnTHaller> May have him do it. I'm busy trying to get apps released so don't have a lot of time to build and test them myself
19:18:47 <MarkSikkema> That's what I thought, but some devs seem to take for ever
19:18:57 <Scriptdaemon> Whatever happened with Rainmeter?
19:19:17 <MarkSikkema> Freeware, probably you'd need permission
19:20:04 <Scriptdaemon> No it's not?
19:20:18 <Scriptdaemon> "Rainmeter is an open-source, non-profit project built by independent contributors."
19:21:07 <MarkSikkema> ah it was rainmeter 2, or some thing like that, which was freeware
19:21:44 <Scriptdaemon> Rainlender?
19:22:19 <MarkSikkema> Maybe I beter do not say nothing anymore ;) (you are right)
19:22:42 <Scriptdaemon> They both have rain in the name, honest mistake. =P
19:26:53 <MarkSikkema> I personally think FBReaderP (from prapper) has got a lot of potential, but his latest launcher still got some minor flaws
19:29:19 <Scriptdaemon> Hey MarkSikkema, since you've been doing some testing lately, could I have you take a look at SWI-Prolog Portable and K-3D Portable sometime?
19:30:49 <MarkSikkema> It's on the list, as soon as I have time I'll look at it
19:30:57 <Scriptdaemon> :)
19:31:01 <MarkSikkema> the list = my personal list
19:37:27 <MarkSikkema> JohnTHaller: How valuable are the extra languages for WinDjViewPortable to you ? I got them recompiled, but they are outdated, I updated one but it takes several hours for each language :(
19:37:48 <JohnTHaller> Why does it take so long to update?
19:37:58 <JohnTHaller> Going through and using Google Translate on each string individually?
19:38:44 <MarkSikkema> it's not about the translating, it's about reordering the resource files. Most of the strings are complete but need sevear reordering
19:39:04 <JohnTHaller> Messy
19:39:11 <JohnTHaller> Why can't they just use text files
19:39:56 <MarkSikkema> probably this is easier for the dev of WinDjView, saves him writing a special parser for it (just a quess)
19:40:31 <MarkSikkema> The way they are now they have to be re-compiled on every vesion update
19:40:43 <MarkSikkema> ^version^
19:40:47 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, which is why they were all dropped
19:41:21 <Scriptdaemon> Alright, time to go take my last final. See you all later.
19:41:29 <MarkSikkema> see you later
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19:42:43 <MarkSikkema> So will I waist/spend my time on doing the others...
19:43:13 <MarkSikkema> Chinese_Simplified
19:43:13 <MarkSikkema> Chinese_Wu
19:43:13 <MarkSikkema> French
19:43:13 <MarkSikkema> Greek
19:43:13 <MarkSikkema> Hungarian
19:43:14 <MarkSikkema> Portuguese
19:43:15 <MarkSikkema> Spanish
19:43:17 <MarkSikkema> Tatarish
19:43:19 <MarkSikkema> Ukrainian
19:43:41 <JohnTHaller> If you feel like doing em, I'll include em in a Rev. But it seems like an awful lot of work on your shoulders.
19:45:32 <MarkSikkema> I started doing it with the hope it would be a bit easier :( I'll see, probably there are more important things to do, like testing other apps
19:46:45 <JohnTHaller> Yeah
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19:57:16 <MarkSikkema> Tipically it's hard to find an app to test which has no issues
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22:36:04 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: I'm not really happy with Scribus being released yet; from discussing it a bit with their team, 1.4 as stable is just round the corner, but quite a bit changes with it; I think it might be worth holding off to 1.4 and doing it in conjunction with them (details to be arranged) as with Inkscape, in particular better portable settings storage (an environment variable override).
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22:42:29 <JohnTHaller> ChrisMorgan: Ok, I'm happy with that. Especially if we can do it in conjunction with them
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23:09:49 <matthewg42> hi. Is it possible to get download stats for a file you host?
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23:21:52 <JohnTHaller> what file matthewg42
23:22:03 <JohnTHaller> and what do you need the stats for
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23:23:44 <matthewg42> JohnTHaller: Hallo, I'm interested to know how many people download stellarium from your site. I'm one of the developers. I'm trying to get an idea of download numbers from non-sourceforge sites.
23:23:56 <BeckySanderlin`x> o.O
23:24:51 <matthewg42> There are so many download sites popping up. I wish there was a standard API for getting download stats.
23:25:11 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, you and me both... hang on I'll get it for you...
23:25:34 <matthewg42> thank you
23:25:56 <JohnTHaller> about 125,000
23:26:15 <JohnTHaller> Those are all direct downloads from users from us only, though. Stellarium Portable is available on other sites as well.
23:26:27 <matthewg42> we made a release recently... not sure how quick the portable version was done. I don't know what packaging you guys have to do. I made some changes a few years ago to pass config directories on the command line so that Stellarium could be made portable. Love the portable apps concept btw.
23:26:38 <JohnTHaller> And numbers should be shooting up soon when we add Stellarium to one of our suite packs :)
23:26:44 <matthewg42> I'm guessing a lot of that is the 0.10.5 version, right?
23:27:06 <matthewg42> :D
23:27:35 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, most of the downloads are of the current release.
23:28:03 <JohnTHaller> We've been adding a 1/4 million users or more a month to the platform, so you'll see the downloads increasing pretty consistently.
23:28:13 <matthewg42> Is there not a 0.10.6 portable version yet? It's got a lot of new features
23:28:29 <JohnTHaller> And we're gonna see a big boost with 2.0 being launched and bundled on flash drives next month.
23:28:36 <matthewg42> awesome!
23:28:58 <matthewg42> how does that work then?
23:28:59 <JohnTHaller> Hmm... I didn't know there was a new release of it. Looks like it just came out a few days ago. I'll have the updated of it posted tomorrow.
23:29:40 <matthewg42> yeah, we put the release out last Sunday. There was a minor bugfix for windows in thuesday or wednesday.
23:29:52 <JohnTHaller> I just added 0.10.6.1 to our Outdated list. Only a couple other apps on it so they should all be done tomorrow.
23:30:03 <matthewg42> yay :)
23:30:06 <JohnTHaller> How does what work, bundles on flash drives?
23:30:26 <matthewg42> yeah - did you get approached by a drive maker or something?
23:30:27 <ZachThibeau> lol nice John
23:30:29 <ZachThibeau> There's no death. But every time someone complains, a month is added to the release date.
23:31:05 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, we're currently in negotiations with 2 of the top 5. May restart negotiations with another 2. Hopefully will announce the first one the week of CES in January
23:31:17 <matthewg42> sweet
23:31:48 <JohnTHaller> Get a lot more people exposed to open source, which is nice, and make sure we never have another U3 type situation messing things up for everyone.
23:31:54 <matthewg42> Our next big release will hopefully be 1.0.0... after 8 years or so.
23:32:20 <JohnTHaller> Oh yeah? Any ETA on that? If you keep us in the loop and we do the dev tests, we could do the portable one the same day and help promote it.
23:32:43 <matthewg42> My guess is 6 months, but could be a lot longer.
23:33:00 <matthewg42> we have some ambitious features.
23:33:09 <JohnTHaller> Ok. Some amazing stuff will be happening between then and now at PA.c, so by then we should be in a position to help you really promote it more widely.
23:33:22 <matthewg42> yay :)
23:33:29 <JohnTHaller> ZachThibeau: Thought you'd like the one month on complaints thing :)
23:34:23 <ZachThibeau> :)
23:34:28 <matthewg42> If you get some flash drive maker drop a bundle of cash on you, we have no objection to getting a few $ in the stellarium donations. We have a potentially expensive new feature in 1.0.0 (bandwidh consuming)
23:34:47 <JohnTHaller> Who do you guys have doing hosting for your downloads?
23:34:55 <matthewg42> sourceforge
23:35:10 <JohnTHaller> Oh what's the feature?
23:36:09 <matthewg42> but we want to stream data in the same way google earth does - full sky survey images. 50 gig on disk, but could add up to a LOT of bandwidth because we are getting more than 30 downloads a minute in the week after release, and each of those users are going to be opening possibly 4-8 connections to the streaming server at a time to fetch sky tiles.
23:36:43 <matthewg42> FSF france have provided us with hosting, but I fear they might get a bit swamped. I don't know how far their pipe is.
23:36:57 <JohnTHaller> Hey, I just noticed you guys have a donation link on your site. I don't think I saw that before. I just added it to the Stellarium Portable page. If you're logged in you can see it now. If not in about 15 mins when cache refreshes. http://portableapps.com/apps/education/stellarium_portable
23:37:00 <matthewg42> well, that's if we even manage to implement it.
23:37:47 <JohnTHaller> Hmmm, yeah that could add up to a lot of bandwidth. There may be a possibility of getting someone to sponsor it in exchange for a mention on your site. I know RackSpace Cloud does that with Git, for example.
23:38:13 <matthewg42> this is one reason I'm trying to get download figures from third party sites - want to know how many extra copies we're looking at.
23:38:35 <JohnTHaller> If you get to that point, just drop me a note (developers address on our contact page is fine) and I'll see if we can find someone to help out with your bandwidth.
23:38:36 <matthewg42> we need to do a lot of number crunching to find out if we can so it with current resources.
23:39:00 <matthewg42> thanks for the rackspace hint. I'll make a note of it. I was wondering who good candidates for such sponsorships might be.
23:39:06 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, understandable. Don't want to add the cool new feature and then not be able to support all the users.
23:39:17 <matthewg42> thanks John, much appreciated.
23:39:33 <JohnTHaller> The bigger hosts are possibilities... RackSpace Cloud, Amazon, even Google. I have a couple contacts I can ping on it when you get to that point,
23:39:43 <matthewg42> I was thinking amazon too.
23:40:02 <JohnTHaller> Peer1 maybe, too. They do a cloud solution and are looking to get the word out.
23:40:26 <matthewg42> Google have a directory competing product in the for of google earth / sky, although I think they're pretty friendly about that sort of stuff.. even so best not tempt them to be mean.
23:40:43 <matthewg42> s/directory/directly/
23:41:03 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, so they may not be interested in that case. I forgot about that.
23:41:05 <matthewg42> although for sure they know how to do this stuff...
23:41:40 <matthewg42> hell, I'd consider accept free bandwidth / hosting from Microsoft if they offered.
23:41:41 <JohnTHaller> We could even inquire with SF about making the BW available somehow. I know some of the folks over there.
23:42:14 <matthewg42> they already shift a lot of bits for us (10 TB this week), but their web services are pretty laggy.
23:42:53 <matthewg42> the tile serving is difficult to do effective cacheing on, and responsiveness is really critical for the app to feel nice, so I think it needs some sort of dedicated hosting
23:42:58 <JohnTHaller> I know. But perhaps on their mirrors, if it is static data. We push out about 30TB a month in downloads as well and it's usually fine. But we don't use any additional services.
23:43:36 <matthewg42> the tiles are very simple... all static files, and quite small each of them.
23:43:50 <matthewg42> talking to OSDN people is also an option.
23:43:54 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, then even setting up your own mirror network could be a possibility.
23:43:57 <matthewg42> First we will find out of FSF can cope with it.
23:44:09 <matthewg42> Yes, we think we might need a US mirror at least
23:44:13 <JohnTHaller> That's true. They're cool. I met them at OSCON
23:44:42 <matthewg42> we seem to get most downloads from Russia weirdly (by quite a big margin). After that the US is the next biggest... err... market (wrong term!)
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23:44:50 <JohnTHaller> Oh that reminds me, do you think there's a way we can get you guys to make the portable package available on your site to your users?
23:45:12 <JohnTHaller> I think SF's stats geo-ip lookups are messed up as EVERYONE seems to get high Russia numbers since they implemented the new stats system
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23:45:29 <matthewg42> Might be able to add a download link to the front page.
23:46:10 <JohnTHaller> Could possibly carve out a bit by the Windows button with the little flash drive installer logo (since people would know what that meant). Even if the words "Stellarium Portable" is only as a link title.
23:46:43 <JohnTHaller> you know offhand if Stellarium for Windows works under Wine?
23:47:16 <gluxon> JohnTHaller: Hm.. it worked last time I ran Stellarium in wine.
23:47:19 <matthewg42> what does it mean to make a portable version? If it difficult? Is it the sort of thing we can integrate into our existing installer without too much effort (i.e. checkbox to "install portable version")
23:47:20 <gluxon> Let me see if it still does.
23:47:37 <matthewg42> Yes, it works under wine.
23:47:50 <matthewg42> as long as your video drivers work with the native version.
23:47:58 <JohnTHaller> matthewg42: Not directly. It needs its own installer which is our NSIS-based one. That way it automatically works with the platform, upgrades and our updater. It's all consistent.
23:48:04 <matthewg42> our biggest problem is video drivers which freak out on us.
23:48:20 <gluxon> Yeah, Stellarium for Windows works fine on Wine.
23:49:02 <JohnTHaller> It also helps prevent UAC issues on Windows since our installers are built not to need admin rights. (big issue on Windows Vista and 7)
23:49:38 <JohnTHaller> I thought it ran under Wine, but it wasn't listed in the compatibility notes on the Stellarium Portable homepage.,
23:50:48 <matthewg42> I think there were issues a few years ago with wine, but wine seems to have improved, and if it was our fault it got sorted out automagically.
23:51:28 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, Wine has gotten a lot better over the years. I know they were usig our suite to test as well. And we worked around the very few Wine bugs we encountered in our code so that all our stuff works under Wine.
23:52:22 <ChrisMorgan> Wine's pretty amazing. In 1.2, OLE drag and drop works - so, for example, I can drag a file from Nautilus into IcoFX and it'll open it.
23:53:34 <gluxon> Wine gives Linux better support for Windows applications than Windows 2000. :P
23:54:31 <JohnTHaller> Well, I don't know about that. But probably better support than Windows 7, since Wine can run older apps that work fine on Win2K but not on Win7
23:55:52 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: and Wine can run some applications that won't run on Windows 2000, too.
23:55:55 <JohnTHaller> ChrisMorgan: What are you running OS wise now anyway?
23:56:11 <ChrisMorgan> Ubuntu 10.10
23:56:55 <JohnTHaller> Ah ok. I like Ubuntu more and more with each release. I'm happy with 10.10, though I wish they'd left the window controls in the upper right. I know I can change it myself, I just mean it's kinda a bad decision UI-wise.
23:56:57 <ChrisMorgan> Or if you mean VMs, just XP Pro 32; I have Vista 64, 7 32 and 64 and XP 64 ready to install.
23:57:26 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, I run Win7 X64 Ultimate as my main and then have Ubuntu, Win2K, Win Vista, Win XP, WIn 7 and Win 98 as VMs
23:58:07 <gluxon> JohnTHaller: It was a good decision, because of the notifications on the right.
23:58:10 <ChrisMorgan> I had an aversion to their new theme and window controls on the left, but I tried switching just to see what it was actually like and I haven't switched back. I discovered I actually kind of like it.
23:58:16 <gluxon> They could occasionally cover the window controls.
23:58:45 <JohnTHaller> Having the X right above the File menu makes me nervous :-P
23:58:45 <gluxon> Besides, the window controls are only on the left for Ambiance and Radiance.
23:58:46 <ChrisMorgan> gluxon: so? You can still click on them - move over the notification and it blurs and lightens; you can't ever click on it.
23:59:00 <ChrisMorgan> gluxon: i.e. the default
23:59:03 <gluxon> ChrisMorgan: I know. But it still covers them.
23:59:19 <gluxon> I prefer Clear Looks :)
23:59:56 <JohnTHaller> Hey guys, you think we could call out donations to apps more as we do announcements? Maybe put a donation link in the RSS feed? So when we announced the new Stellarium, we have the link to donate more as part of it. Or would that be too cluttered?