IRC Log from 2011-07-08
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02:41:03 <noob0124> hello
02:42:52 <kAlug_> hi
02:46:23 <noob0124> i was working with a program that has a few weird requirements that i need help with so i can make a portable version of this app. first, it expects and creates data in a folder in AppData/roaming. second, it is disk intensive so it needs to be copied to a temp folder on the host machine and one subfolder of it copied back upon close, and deleting the rest. any way to do this in a launcher
02:47:37 <kAlug_> AppData\Roaming -> %APPDATA%
02:48:25 <kAlug_> #2: where exactly it's writing to?
02:48:37 <noob0124> it writes to that appdata/roaming folder.
02:48:52 <noob0124> it uses /appdata/roaming as a working space
02:49:24 <kAlug_> So it's files. That's a local folder.
02:50:04 <kAlug_> s/files/fine/
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03:36:34 <JAWS> hello, can somebody help me with Texter?
03:39:16 <JAWS> i want to make a replacement to output the date as, day month yr, how do i do this, if it is possible?
03:43:08 <JAWS> is anyone there?
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03:51:41 <JAWS> ChrisMorgan: can you help me with Texter?
03:51:45 <ChrisMorgan> No.
03:51:59 <JAWS> no anyone that can? ;)
03:52:17 <JAWS> know*
03:53:50 <JAWS> Gizmokid2005: can you help me with Texter? ;)
03:56:26 <JAWS> anyone there that can help me?! PLEASE! :)
04:00:23 <ChrisMorgan> JAWS: it's not relevant here. Try somewhere else.
04:01:10 <JAWS> ChrisMorgan: why not its TexterPortable on PA.c that is what this forum is!
04:01:39 <ChrisMorgan> JAWS: we provide portable software but we don't provide help on using the base app beyond where portability is concerned.
04:01:48 <DannyMuniz> JAWS: try posting on forum that way more people can see and try to help you. I for one do not use texter and I do not know how it works, so I can't help you.
04:02:23 <kAlug_> JAWS: from http://lifehacker.com/238306/lifehacker-code-texter-windows , I'd guess it's not possible.
04:03:14 <JAWS> ya i saw Thanks,
04:03:59 <kAlug_> I could suggest you PhraseExpress (http://portableapps.com/node/26780) but I discontinued it.
04:04:05 <JAWS> sorry using texer right now didnt mean to sound rude, just there
04:04:31 <JAWS> it automatically send that last one with the thanks
04:06:54 <JAWS> what i was going to say before it automatically sent thanks instead, was does anyone know how the script would be set up to put it in that format?
04:08:17 <kAlug_> JAWS: what script? What format?
04:09:28 <JAWS> oh sry, thought u might have seen what i typed a while ago, output the date as, day month yr
04:10:25 <JAWS> like what the Windows notepad does if i press F5
04:12:25 <JAWS> do you think Adam Pash will be realasing a new version seeing that the last was in 2007?
04:12:36 <JAWS> releasing*
04:15:03 <kAlug_> JAWS: From the source code, I can assure you there's no way to use a custom format. But the missing code is pretty easy.
04:15:42 <JAWS> ok, but whats the "missing" code?
04:16:51 <kAlug_> http://svn.adampash.com/texter/texter.ahk ; search for "StringReplace, ReplacementText, ReplacementText, `%t, %CurrTime%, All"
04:19:00 <JAWS> is that page like the programs "programming" or something?
04:20:38 <kAlug_> Yep.
04:21:19 <JAWS> ...and isn't that whats listed on Texters homepage as the "other variables"?
04:22:12 <kAlug_> Yep. Those are the only ones.
04:22:50 <JAWS> ...no way to add custom then...:p
04:23:05 <JAWS> :P
04:23:31 <kAlug_> ... unless someone fork it.
04:23:48 <JAWS> fork it?
04:26:02 <kAlug_> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Fork_(software_development)
04:27:11 <JAWS> sure doesn't sound legal
04:29:15 <JAWS> well, thanks for trying to help me... sorry for most likely being a waste of your time ;) (thats a little bit wordy)
04:33:08 <JAWS> gtg cya
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04:48:14 <kAlug_> ChrisMorgan: I'm finishing dirvars now; do you think that "If a key name has a ~ appended to it, it will be processed as a directory variable, therefore getting the same additional variables." is enough in the docs?
04:48:48 <ChrisMorgan> Need examples too.
04:49:23 <ChrisMorgan> You've got ``.. code-block:: ini`` for INI formatting.
05:00:13 <kAlug_> Done. I wonder if the explanation should stay in the docs for each section, or if I can add it to envsub.rst and point to it like "Environment variable substitions apply." does.
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05:25:06 <kAlug_> ChrisMorgan: should the explanation stay in the docs for each section, or I can add it to envsub.rst and point to it like "Environment variable substitions apply." does?
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05:40:44 <ChrisMorgan> kAlug_: What do you mean "for each section"? There does not need to be anything special about this. It is not define special types of environment variables, it's just another way of defining environment variables. envsub.rst can mention the section as a way that environment variables can be created.
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06:13:11 <kAlug_> .tell ChrisMorgan [Environment] and [PersistentData] both support that syntax = duplicated docs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRY
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12:12:51 <techfreak243> when is 2.0 comin out
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12:20:19 <TPFC-SYSTEM> techfreak243: Nobody knows.
12:23:59 <techfreak243> is there anyway i can get an RC of it? i am an avid user and would love to try it out
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12:37:56 <TPFC-SYSTEM> techfreak243: All available unstable versions are here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/portableapps/files/PortableApps.com%20Platform%20Test/
12:38:18 <TPFC-SYSTEM> Only beta versions of 2.0 are available.
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13:12:46 <Garanel> Is anyone around who could tell me what I am doing wrong with trying to make a porable version of Virtualbox?
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13:17:47 <Garanel> Or is there a step by step guide to the process somewhere, the manual isn't very complete, at least not that I have found
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17:03:16 <kAlug> ChrisMorgan: http://portableapps.chrismorgan.info/irc/logs/?t=2011-07-08#T05-00-13
17:05:41 <ChrisMorgan> kAlug: duplicate the docs. "DRY" is all very well in code, but in documentation it does not work at all.
17:10:47 <ChrisMorgan> Sorry about the PAL:Bits $1 instead of $0 thing. (And thanks for picking it up!) Wrote that code some time ago but hadn't quite finished the docs so I didn't commit it, then I committed it without doing my usual review because I wrote it some time ago. Bad idea.
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17:14:15 <ChrisMorgan> kAlug: concerning aligned INI files, I know I also dislike them. For work on PAL itself at least use the standard INI conventions.
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17:15:03 <Simeon> hi all Hi Chris
17:15:16 <ChrisMorgan> Hey Simeon, good night Simeon :-)
17:15:36 <Simeon> :)
17:22:30 <kAlug> ChrisMorgan: JohnTHaller told me that "I'll probably 'fix' them with every official release", so I decided to make things easier for him.
17:22:32 <kAlug> 3/5 apps are already fixed, including TortoiseHg 2.1.1.
17:25:12 <kAlug> Do you think this is enough: http://pastebit.com/pastie/6577 ?
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17:37:50 <varunbatra> Hi
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17:38:30 <varunbatra> I was wondering if there is any possibility to run two skype portable simultaneously
17:40:15 <Simeon> hi
17:40:32 <varunbatra> Hi Simeon
17:40:34 <Simeon> I dont know as I havent tried it.
17:40:58 <varunbatra> The /secondary for sure isn't working
17:41:04 <Simeon> My guess is that it should inform you if it doesnt work.
17:41:54 <Simeon> I know that some apps do work, and some dont. Some tell you that they cant be launched cause there is another instance running.
17:42:10 <Simeon> where did you try adding the /secondary?
17:44:19 <varunbatra> With cmd
17:44:31 <varunbatra> Skype works, but multiple instances don't
17:46:23 <Simeon> but you passed it to the launcher (SkypePortable.exe)?
17:49:45 <Simeon> I think its best to ask in the forums as I dont know anything about it and the Skype Launcher is closed source so only John T. Haller (the main developer) can answer your question.
17:54:55 <varunbatra> Sounds good For the time I am doing into skypeortable.exe only.
17:55:43 <Simeon> ok
17:56:48 <varunbatra> http://portableapps.com/node/21153 Now working ans yet
17:58:55 <Simeon> nice. I wonder why my search didnt find it...
18:00:08 <varunbatra> It was in 3rd page in india google
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18:45:51 <Simeon> hi gluxon
18:45:59 <gluxon> Hi Simeon :)
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19:59:44 <Simeon> Hi John
20:11:27 <JohnTHaller> Hola
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20:19:25 <Simeon> @JohnTHaller: Does this (http://portableapps.com/node/28477) warrant a revision?
20:20:01 <JohnTHaller> yup
20:20:22 <Simeon> Didnt know if you saw it so I thought I'd ping you
20:24:18 <Simeon> You might want to have a look here (http://portableapps.com/node/28217) too.
20:29:29 <kAlug> JohnTHaller: are you interested in a PALed version of ConvertAll Portable?
20:30:05 <gluxon> Simeon: You sure your system is somehow messed up? :P
20:30:51 <Simeon> Yes. I set it up so portableapps stop working only so I can complain here! :)
20:31:00 <JohnTHaller> Figured :-P
20:31:30 <JohnTHaller> kAlug: If I'm doing a revision of it anyway, sure. Though we'll probably use PAL 2.1.1 once double-checked (should be tomorrow)
20:31:58 <Simeon> Of course you are all free to try to reproduce the bugs. Im curious if I am powerfull enough to make your systems behave weird too ;)
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20:35:31 <JohnTHaller> Simeon: Atomic Tanks 5.1 is out (according to Bart.S)
20:35:44 <Simeon> oh. thanks for letting me know
20:37:59 <Simeon> Ah. I already know about it but the windows version wasnt out yet. It is now so I can go update it
20:38:06 <Simeon> know=knew
20:39:09 <Simeon> Does Bart.S keep checking all app pages once a week? He seems to be the one reporting most of the outdated apps...
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20:41:12 <kAlug> PAL: converting 277 lines of code into 23 B-)
20:41:52 <JohnTHaller> He may be subscribed to more of the RSS feeds. That's how I track a lot of them.
20:42:43 <kAlug> JohnTHaller: should appinfo.ini/[Details]:Description include the app name ("ConvertAll Portable is a powerful units converter.") or not ("Graphical interface for the Mercurial distributed revision control system")?
20:43:08 <Simeon> I have 2 other possible bugs sitting on my desktop Ill have to reproduce propperly.
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20:46:47 <JohnTHaller1> I hate time warner
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20:47:26 <JohnTHaller> argh
20:49:54 <kAlug> JohnTHaller: should appinfo.ini/[Details]:Description include the app name ("ConvertAll Portable is a powerful units converter.") or not ("Graphical interface for the Mercurial distributed revision control system")?
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20:50:59 <JohnTHaller> really hate time warner
20:52:24 <kAlug> JohnTHaller: should appinfo.ini/[Details]:Description include the app name ("ConvertAll Portable is a powerful units converter.") or not ("Graphical interface for the Mercurial distributed revision control system")?
20:52:54 <JohnTHaller> Either way
20:53:11 <kAlug> Is any of them preferred?
20:53:25 <JohnTHaller> Either way. I've given it no thought previously.
20:53:40 <JohnTHaller> We don't even use that field for anything at present.
20:54:35 <JohnTHaller> Only took 2 modem reboots to upload the SeaMonkey source code.
21:04:08 <Simeon> ouch
21:04:23 <Simeon> sounds like a release-friday :)
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21:08:09 <jason404> I have only recently started making launchers using the generator
21:08:17 <kAlug> JohnTHaller: ConvertAll Portable's launcher.ini: http://pastebit.com/pastie/6578 ; tested on a XP SP2 VM, admin & limited accounts; I can package it if you prefer.
21:09:00 <jason404> I was looking at this one. Why does it have a different folder structure to the ones I have been making? http://pastebin.com/h3YCSYd5
21:09:44 <jason404> has the launcher been made manually or something?
21:09:51 <jason404> or is it an older version?
21:10:22 <JohnTHaller> kAlug: You can make it and take it over if you'd like.
21:10:27 <kAlug> It's a NSIS-based (manual) launcher.
21:10:34 <JohnTHaller> We'll have Simeon double check that it works for him
21:10:55 <JohnTHaller> jason404: Some launchers are custom (their own code in NSIS) some are PA.c Launchers with launcher.ini files
21:11:11 <jason404> ic
21:11:39 <Simeon> I can have a look at it right now
21:11:40 <JohnTHaller> Firefox and many other apps that have been around for a while or were started as dev tests a while ago are all custom launchers.
21:12:19 <jason404> ic. is there any benefits to making custom launchers, or are they just required sometimes?
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21:13:46 <JohnTHaller> It's better to use PAL now as it's more consistent and maintainable. And lots of features that are difficult are baked in.
21:14:00 <jason404> ok, thanks
21:14:01 <Simeon> back a while (one year or so), we had nothing but custom launchers. the new ini-configured launcher is easier to maintain so most newer apps use it.
21:14:03 <JohnTHaller> Most custom launchers just haven't yet been updated to PAL. Some will need custom code, though.
21:14:27 <jason404> ic
21:14:41 <JohnTHaller> Like InstantBird, which is Mozilla-based like FF, TB, etc but uses PAL instead of a custom launcher. It still needed custom code for the SQLite bits.
21:15:14 <kAlug> jason404: see my comment about ConvertAll Portable before: "PAL: converting 277 lines of code into 23 B-)"
21:15:52 <gluxon> kAlug: Yes, but in reality, PAL is just converting them back into 277 lines based on your 23.
21:15:55 <JohnTHaller> Yeah. Tis nice. Though there are hundreds of lines behind that. And it isn't quite bug-free yet: http://portableapps.com/node/28197
21:16:38 <gluxon> Can't that bug be fixed with custom code?
21:16:49 <JohnTHaller> It's being fixed in PAL itself.
21:16:49 <gluxon> On the user's end?
21:16:59 <kAlug> gluxon: Probably more. But most people will only see that 23.
21:17:14 <JohnTHaller> We're gonna need to do Revisions for Opera, LibreOffice (all 4 packages), Foxit, etc etc
21:18:17 <kAlug> JohnTHaller: do you remember UMPlayer? I've sent a email to them on June 22 and I've received no answer yet. I was wondering if I can post a Dev Test using ExtractIcon while I resend the email.
21:18:30 <gluxon> JohnTHaller: I can do that if you're too busy.
21:18:53 <JohnTHaller> ExtractIcon is deprecated and the Menu doesn't use it. It was added for future use but then I decided not to implement it since nothing used it.
21:19:03 <gluxon> Wait, revisions as in bug fixes or conversion to PAL?
21:20:19 <kAlug> JohnTHaller: so I suggest you to remove that from the spec.
21:20:41 <rcmaehl> JohnTHaller: you need to make minecraft portable
21:21:26 <gluxon> rcmaehl: -ot
21:21:30 <JohnTHaller> He's never responded to my requests for permission
21:21:46 <rcmaehl> JohnTHaller: I'll ask him when he gets on irc.
21:21:58 <JohnTHaller> when and where is notch on IRC?
21:22:49 <rcmaehl> -_- It's bug testers only. Sorry.
21:24:30 <Gizmokid2005> he's rarely on IRC
21:24:38 <Gizmokid2005> the best way to get permission is to email Carl @ Mojang
21:25:51 <JohnTHaller> what's his actual email? It's not on the site
21:27:23 <Gizmokid2005> good question. Maybe you should ping him on Twitter for it. They're very active on there.
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21:29:48 <kAlug> Hey, what happened to GizmoBot?
21:30:23 *** GizmoBot (~GizmoBot@vps2.gizmokid2005.com) has joined #portableapps
21:30:26 <GizmoBot> GizmoBot is the official bot of #Gizmokid2005 and #PortableApps.
21:30:34 <Gizmokid2005> ;)
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21:35:37 <gluxon> JohnTHaller: Got a minute to talk about something a bit off-topic?
21:35:50 <JohnTHaller> k
21:36:39 <gluxon> Do you plan on having a place for official PortableApps.com theme downloads?
21:36:57 <JohnTHaller> Yup
21:37:08 <gluxon> I'm thinking about creating one with my PHP skills to replace NeoRame and MrElchbau's PTC.
21:37:31 <gluxon> Which has been down for over a year.
21:37:45 <JohnTHaller> It's gonne be on the site only at first but eventually in the platform with a downloader similar to the updater.
21:38:30 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, I know. I think they got busy with other stuff and frustrated that themes still aren't official yet.
21:38:53 <gluxon> JohnTHaller: So could I start development on this? Or is this something you want to work on?
21:39:41 <JohnTHaller> I think the official one will be Drupal-based like the upcoming automated app directory, though. I'm not sure a PHP based one could directly be incorporated.
21:40:11 <JohnTHaller> Well, I mean the display pages will be PHP, but it'll be within Drupal. Do you know Drupal at all?
21:41:10 <gluxon> Not at the moment. But I'm learning about module development for Drupal 7 currently.
21:41:51 <gluxon> Any ideas on how you'll do this with Drupal though?
21:42:22 <gluxon> Either way, I think it's going to involve writing custom PHP, right?
21:42:41 <JohnTHaller> Ah, good timing then. The plan is having the themes each getting their own page with added properties (formerly Content Creation Kit fields). Name, author, description, updated date, category, etc. And using all that for database browsing pages as either custom PHP or customized views..
21:43:27 <MaienM> you probably could realise all that with fields, views and templates for node types, right?
21:44:08 <JohnTHaller> Yup. I have a working model of it for apps already. But it's Drupal 7 dependent and we haven't been able to get the site upgraded yet due to Drupal instability and database errors.
21:44:27 <MaienM> right
21:44:43 <MaienM> yeah, upgrading to drupal 7 isn't as easy as it should be
21:44:52 <MaienM> but drupal 7 definitely is nice
21:44:55 <JohnTHaller> It fails with no errors and a white page on our system.
21:45:10 <JohnTHaller> Drupals upgrade system has always been a bit of a disaster
21:46:23 <MaienM> I ended up just starting from scratch and migrating everything once the base was setup
21:46:29 <MaienM> ofc, that's not an option for you :P
21:47:08 <JohnTHaller> Actually, that's what we have to do. Manually import all the database stuff using custom SQL into a fresh Drupal 7 install. No other way to do it since the updater is so hopelessly broken,
21:47:23 <JohnTHaller> And there's basically zero support for upgrading when you have issues, so it's not like we have a choice.
21:47:31 <gluxon> Ouch. O_o
21:47:32 <MaienM> right
21:47:38 <MaienM> that sound... painful
21:47:42 <MaienM> good luck with that
21:48:01 <Simeon> sounds like something that takes a while :(
21:48:15 <gluxon> Weren't there Drupal professional hired to assist you? How did that go out?
21:48:21 <JohnTHaller> It's gonna take days to do all the code. And then hours to actually do the assistance.
21:48:28 <JohnTHaller> Didn't happen. Didn't have the money.
21:49:08 <JohnTHaller> Donations and ad revenue is only covering 1/2 hosting costs these days.
21:51:14 <Simeon> uff. What about a page-weide fundraiser with a goal set?
21:52:21 <JohnTHaller> I'm gonna do it in conjunction with the 2.0 Pre-Release posting. I just need to finish it. Otherwise people won't do it. And complain that 2.0 isn't out yet and that I'm not doing any work.
21:53:04 <MaienM> that seems to be a problem with a lot of oss projects :(
21:53:08 <MaienM> funding, that is
21:53:29 <Gizmokid2005> except mozilla ;)
21:53:38 <JohnTHaller> Ok, I'm uploading SeaMonkey now, so I may go offline again. Modem doesn't like 230MB uploads.
21:53:57 <JohnTHaller> Mozilla gets ad revenue share from Google. $120 million last year I think.
21:54:12 <Gizmokid2005> that's neither here nor there.
21:54:28 <Simeon> yes. Some nice conspiracy theories about Mozilla and google...:)
21:54:59 <jason404> I was thinking of amking an adcert for PA on Superuser.com, but I could not come up with a good graphic for the ad.
21:55:02 <jason404> http://meta.superuser.com/questions/2164/community-promotion-ads-1h-2011
21:58:18 <gluxon> jason404: How much popularity does that page actually get?
21:58:49 <jason404> the adverts are on the right sidebar on the main page at superuser.com
21:59:08 <jason404> and superuser is a popular site, and increasingly so, like Stack Overflow
21:59:14 <jason404> same group
22:00:08 <jason404> superuser comes up on first page on google search for a lot of computer issue searches these days
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22:02:29 <jason404> well, it's free advertising, which should get a lot of hits
22:05:29 <jason404> I'll try making an advert in time for the v2 launch, unless anybody else does
22:05:47 <jason404> It's hard coming up with a graphic though
22:07:40 <gluxon> jason404: Why?
22:08:02 <jason404> why what? advertise?
22:08:29 <jason404> just thought I'd like to promote PA, as I like it so much
22:09:36 <jason404> better PA than a of other stuff that gets advertsised, like Firefox (wtf?)
22:10:19 <gluxon> jason404: Why isn't Firefox good? :-/
22:10:41 <jason404> it hardly needs advertising
22:11:04 <gluxon> jason404: Says who? Firefox has close to no advertising..
22:11:12 <gluxon> Compared to Chrome and IE.
22:11:41 <jason404> I would think that around 99.999% of superuser visitors would have heard of Firefox already
22:12:26 <gluxon> Meh, good point. Didn't think of that.
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22:23:30 <kAlug> Well, UMPlayer Portable has been uploaded and an email sent. Now I hope that they get it this time.
22:27:16 <Simeon> @John: Are you here?
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22:49:27 <kAlug> JohnTHaller1: do I need to include all files of the VC runtimes? (specifically msvcm90.dll and msvcp90.dll)
23:09:48 <Simeon> I'd include them. Dunno if John is still here.
23:38:23 <Simeon> bye all
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