IRC Log from 2011-10-10
00:08:25 <ChrisMorgan> Ah yes, *that* was what I was going to ask you, JohnTHaller. Could I please have an updated splash screen for BPBible?
00:08:37 <JohnTHaller> Oh, sure.
00:08:46 <JohnTHaller> Gimme a minute...
00:09:41 <ChrisMorgan> Thanks.
00:10:35 <ChrisMorgan> BPBible 0.5's content areas are XULRunner-powered. (Though it still uses wxPython.) Adds 10MB to it. But it's mostly a lot better than the old wxHTML renderer.
00:10:47 <kAlug|Away> Hey JohnTHaller!
00:10:50 *** kAlug|Away is now known as kAlug
00:12:13 <ChrisMorgan> kAlug: I believe I'm happy with that UAC patch; put it in and I'll do 2.2b1 when I next get a chance (just about to go for to buy some tomato sauce then I'll be back to make my sandwiches then off to Uni).
00:12:15 <JohnTHaller> hola kalug
00:14:10 <JohnTHaller> ChrisMorgan: How'
00:14:16 <JohnTHaller> s this? http://portableapps.com/temp/BPBiblePortable.jpg
00:15:53 <JohnTHaller> ChrisMorgan: btw - does 2.2b1 use a Mutex instead of the INI for runtime info?
00:16:02 <ChrisMorgan> It will.
00:16:31 <kAlug> ChrisMorgan: We still need to test it on XP/2003. But as this is going to be a beta...
00:17:14 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: the BPBible.com bit is a bit bold. We haven't got a new splash screen for Inkscape either, but I like its current form of displaying "PortableApps.com & Inkscape.org"
00:17:58 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, I've been torn between using & or alternating alignment
00:18:55 <ChrisMorgan> Considering the / AppNamePortable style, I think the & tends to look better
00:19:41 <ChrisMorgan> Craziness, craziness... part of the upstream release notes for the tzdata package update in Ubuntu: "Palestine suspends DST during Ramadan in 2011"
00:20:09 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, good call. It looks better with &. Reload it: http://portableapps.com/temp/BPBiblePortable.jpg
00:20:16 <ChrisMorgan> Wouldn't it all be so much easier if we just never had DST anywhere.
00:20:32 <ChrisMorgan> Yep, that looks much better.
00:20:39 <ChrisMorgan> I'll take two dozen of them, thanks.
00:20:45 <JohnTHaller> Ok, I think we'll standardize on that. :)
00:20:58 <ChrisMorgan> And while we're at it, then, Inkscape could do with being updated before 0.49.
00:21:06 * kAlug prefers DST every time
00:21:40 <JohnTHaller> ChrisMorgan: I thought I already gave this to you: http://portableapps.com/temp/InkscapePortable.jpg
00:22:06 <ChrisMorgan> Whether you did or not, it doesn't seem to have ended up in 0.48.2.
00:22:41 <JohnTHaller> Ah ok. That's my fault since I built the thing. Sorry about that.
00:23:20 <JohnTHaller> brb
00:23:27 <ChrisMorgan> I dunno. I don't think it really matters much, either.
00:23:30 *** JohnTHaller is now known as JohnTHaller|away
00:25:14 <ChrisMorgan> I also need to update the Inkscape stuff in the Inkscape repository...
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00:41:11 <gluxon> :-/
00:41:32 <gluxon> I didn't mean for that to reach this chan :P
00:44:13 * kAlug just had an idea on how to solve a problem he's not even sure that exists
00:44:31 <gluxon> What problem? :P
00:44:54 <JohnTHaller|away> ChrisMorgan and kAlug: When we switch to Mutexes from the INI for runtime info for PAL. how will it know if the PC crashed and stuff wasn't moved back where it should be?
00:45:07 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller|away: another thing I'd like at some point is a version of that splash background type stuff for use in PADT as in http://chrismorgan.info/temp/development-toolkit-005.png - 960x55 are my current dimensions, open to some change
00:45:15 *** JohnTHaller|away is now known as JohnTHaller
00:45:44 <JohnTHaller> I can build that for you, just let me know when you finalize the dimensions
00:45:56 <kAlug> gluxon: I'm not sure anymore... I know it's related to PAL, registry keys and multiple launchers using the same key which doesn't exists on the host.
00:47:21 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: 960x55, then. I don't think I'm likely to need to change it. If it could be made to work with a resizable window, that'd be a good solution too.
00:47:51 <kAlug> JohnTHaller: By check the existence of $DataDirectory\PortableApps.comLauncherRuntimeData-$BaseName.ini, it seems.
00:47:52 <JohnTHaller> I can ask the designer to render it larger so we can adjust it. It should scale OK as is.
00:48:02 <kAlug> s/check/&ing/
00:48:17 <JohnTHaller> kAlug: And it'll check that and handle it once we use mutexes to detect a crash and fix it?
00:48:23 <ChrisMorgan> I was thinking more just clipping horizontally.
00:48:50 <ChrisMorgan> Probably have the right side stick and expand to show more on the left (which then means the logo would be floating on top)
00:49:12 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, the logo should be separate, as should the top bar and scale independently.
00:49:40 <kAlug> Just like currently. Comment follow: "File gets deleted in segment Core, hook Unload, so it'll only exist in case of power-outage, disk removal while running or something like that."
00:50:09 <JohnTHaller> kAlug: So how is it handled in that case? Just the warning message and then we'll need to help users manually repair it?
00:50:46 <JohnTHaller> (Note: I'm thinking more for apps where we move some settings into and out of the App directory. We used to handle this situation in custom launchers but in PAL, they just break)
00:50:55 <kAlug> Just like currently. We'll handle it, but the launcher will need to be restarted.
00:51:20 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: I think the mutex changes are just applying to the starting and stopping states.
00:52:03 <JohnTHaller> Like Data\profile is moved to App\AppName\profile and then back on exit. Is there a way for PAL to detect when this fails (drive pull, PC crash, power outtage) and automatically recover on next launch?
00:52:44 <kAlug> ChrisMorgan: running status too. I need to check when ${WriteRuntimeData} is first called.
00:54:12 <ChrisMorgan> Oh yes, I see that you changed the "status=running" bit to deleting the "starting" mutex.
00:54:45 <ChrisMorgan> The very latest that it will be written to is in Core/PreExecPrimary.
00:55:02 <ChrisMorgan> Which means that it is still guaranteed to be there while running.
00:55:18 <JohnTHaller> I aks for two reasons... one so we can handle it... and two so we have a standard way to detect it that I can have the PA.c Installer check for it and not do an upgrade (losing the data) and show a warning if the app is in that state.
00:56:13 <kAlug> I'll add a FileOpen w in PortableApps.comLauncher.nsi for safety.
00:57:30 <ChrisMorgan> kAlug: I wouldn't bother. It's guaranteed to be there. At most put a note in Core/PreExecPrimary saying we depend on that line to create the file.
00:59:54 <ChrisMorgan> INI files not being flushed could be a problem in 98, but since 2000 they're flushed automatically so that's no problem.
01:00:07 <ChrisMorgan> JohnTHaller: what do you think of Windows 2000 support? How important do you think it should be to us?
01:00:19 <kAlug> I was going to ask this.
01:01:35 <JohnTHaller> I think we should enable it as long as we can and as long as nothing critically depends on WinXP. Partially because Win2K is still out there on lots of PCs in less-developed countries. And partially because Wine is essentially only Win2K-compatible on a lot of things that matter.
01:02:06 <ChrisMorgan> Good, that's the answer that I expected.
01:02:33 <ChrisMorgan> Unfortunately, you can't download Windows 2000 through MSDN at all any more.
01:02:47 <ChrisMorgan> So I'll need to try to get a copy from Dad.
01:03:19 <JohnTHaller> Really? That's odd. Win98 was still on there last I checked.
01:03:24 <kAlug> BTW, does someone here has a Windows XP VM (with limited account)?
01:03:40 <kAlug> 98 is not there anymore.
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01:04:05 <ChrisMorgan> T'werent when I looked a couple of days ago. 3.1, yes. 3.11, yes. 3.2, yes. MS DOS 6, yes. 95, 98, 2000, all the ones you'd really like, no.
01:04:06 <kAlug> hey david_pi
01:04:10 <david_pi> Hi kAlug!
01:04:21 <david_pi> How is the kso going?
01:04:43 <ChrisMorgan> kAlug: so then, if D-compiled executables depend on a DLL not in Windows 2000, D stands for Definitely out of the question for PAL.
01:04:55 <kAlug> ChrisMorgan: I don't have any Windows before XP available.
01:05:27 <kAlug> Oh yes, I found a interesting in-development language.
01:05:30 * ChrisMorgan has XP and can log in as Guest, but has no time to do so now as he's about to run off into the distance.
01:05:41 <JohnTHaller> david_pi: kso?
01:05:45 <david_pi> Have you receive my email?
01:05:48 <ChrisMorgan> KingSoft Office
01:05:59 <kAlug> david_pi: Yep.
01:06:00 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, I can't do any testing atm, about to eat
01:06:15 <kAlug> JohnTHaller: Can you check its EULA?
01:06:21 <kAlug> http://portableapps.com/node/29446#comment-184569
01:07:04 <ChrisMorgan> kAlug: the summary of it is ask them, I think.
01:07:41 <kAlug> ChrisMorgan, JohnTHaller: Please try the new UAC fixes on XP. My VM gives Error 3 when elevating.
01:07:43 <ChrisMorgan> For a freeware product, that doesn't make much sense, but then, many freeware licenses contain utterly inappropriate and irrelevant clauses.
01:07:58 <ChrisMorgan> OK, I'll take a look at it some time.
01:07:59 <david_pi> It contradict from their website.
01:08:33 <ChrisMorgan> kAlug: wait, are you guest? My recollection is that guest can't elevate. Limited user can, but guest can't at all.
01:08:37 <kAlug> david_pi: They have lots of websites. KSOffice.net, Kingsoft.com, KingsoftResearch.com, Kingsoft.com.au...
01:08:54 <david_pi> http://www.kingsoftstore.com/
01:08:54 <kAlug> Some have 2010, some 2009, some 2012... no one free.
01:09:12 <kAlug> Also, see http://portableapps.com/node/29446#comment-184568
01:09:24 <JohnTHaller> kAlug: We'd need permission me thinkgs
01:09:28 <kAlug> ChrisMorgan: Tried both, same error.
01:09:44 <david_pi> I think you'd best ask them.
01:10:07 <ChrisMorgan> kAlug: OK, I'll test it out more later.
01:10:18 <kAlug> From Pyromaniac: "That's why I think portable-izing it was something John would personally have to ask."
01:10:31 <ChrisMorgan> Bye, I'm *really* going this time.
01:10:47 <kAlug> Bye ChrisMorgan
01:11:29 <kAlug> ChrisMorgan: Check this when you come back: http://code.google.com/p/crack-language/
01:12:32 <JohnTHaller> later man
01:13:39 * kAlug bets a ping timeout is coming
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01:15:35 <david_pi> kingsoftstore.com seems to be their English site. You can change language from the .cn site and jump to kingsoftstore.com.
01:16:03 <kAlug> Oh, great. Good news.
01:16:25 <JohnTHaller> Alright, I am off as well. Be back in a couple hours
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01:18:32 <kAlug> david_pi: I'm not sure HKCU\Software\Kingsoft\Office\6.0\Common\do_not_detect_file_association_while_startup is needed. It doesn't prompt me for file associations on startup.
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01:19:08 <GizmoBot> GordCaswell is the developer of Armagetron Advanced Portable, Evince Portable & ZSoft Uninstaller Portable
01:19:30 <david_pi> Oh yeah? I make a WPS office first. This is copied from that.
01:20:17 <kAlug> Alright then. Just need permission and I'll publish it.
01:20:47 <kAlug> By the way, do you know what $APPDATA\Kingsoft\wpslive is used for?
01:20:53 <david_pi> I'll test it later.
01:21:00 <david_pi> WPS online.
01:21:27 <david_pi> It's useless. But it may create this directory.
01:22:22 <david_pi> There's another thing. Don't backup the whole $APPDATA\Kingsoft. Kingsoft has some other products put files here.
01:23:02 <kAlug> Oops. It seems that I was doing exactly that.
01:23:41 <david_pi> If you do this, other kingsoft software may not work when KSO portable is on.
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01:25:44 <david_pi> It's the same as the registry. Don't move the whole Kingsoft key.
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01:27:07 <kAlug> OK. Fixed. Also, instead of unregistering the DLL, I'm backing up all the keys it creates, in case the app is already installed.
01:27:49 <david_pi> It would work. But it maybe a long list.
01:28:14 <kAlug> 61 items.
01:28:38 <david_pi> And ... Maybe don't have to do this. As the DLL won't damage the local installed version.
01:28:49 <david_pi> When it start it will auto reg the dll.
01:33:23 <david_pi> $LOCALAPPDATA\Kingsoft\[wps/wpp/et] I don't know whether English version creat these dirctories but the Chinese version do and put some temp files in it.
01:34:08 <kAlug> It doesn't seems to.
01:34:52 <david_pi> It's more clean than the Chinese version.
01:52:21 <david_pi> Would you mind let me see the source code?
01:54:31 <kAlug> http://dumpz.org/91797/
01:55:10 <david_pi> ok.
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01:59:53 <pa_4828> i have a wuestion
02:00:06 <kAlug> pa_4828: ask
02:00:31 <pa_4828> how do you get the app suite onto a usbkey
02:01:31 <kAlug> http://portableapps.com/download . Just download it and install in the root of the drive (X:\)
02:01:45 <pa_4828> thanks
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02:02:23 <kAlug> To download new apps, click Manage Apps -> Get More Apps... and select those you want to install.
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02:02:54 <david_pi> hi kAlug.
02:03:07 <david_pi> Seems 1 thing is missed.
02:03:49 <kAlug> What?
02:03:57 <david_pi> The task. $WINDIR\Tasks\Wps***
02:04:39 <david_pi> You don't use total uninstall right?
02:04:48 <kAlug> Yeah, I noticed that, then I deleted the update executables 8-)
02:05:04 <kAlug> No. VM + Regshot.
02:05:39 <david_pi> So it's not so easy to monitor file system.
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02:06:21 <kAlug> I know what's installed and what's generated at runtime.
02:08:43 <kAlug> i.e. Regshot reports that too.
02:10:01 <david_pi> Really? I'll try regshot.
02:10:23 <david_pi> A silly question, how to know what's installed and what's generated at runtime?
02:10:29 <kAlug> Shot once after install and once after running.
02:10:58 <kAlug> You just asked what I was going to answer :))
02:11:58 <david_pi> I use Total uninstall, it scan the system before and after install. And compare them.
02:12:15 <david_pi> You can know what's changed at runtime?
02:12:42 <kAlug> By running Regshot before and after running it.
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02:13:13 <david_pi> So it's the same way as Total uninstall did.
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02:28:23 <david_pi> Hi kAlug, are you still there?
02:28:43 <Aerok> Yes.
02:28:46 *** Aerok is now known as kAlug
02:29:13 <david_pi> I don't know is this necessary. KSO reg a font when install.
02:29:41 <david_pi> MT Extra (TrueType)
02:30:09 <david_pi> point to Kingsoft Office\ksee\Fonts\TrueType\mtextra.ttf
02:30:18 <kAlug> It ran fine without it. But I'll consider adding it.
02:30:45 <david_pi> Yes, backup the local one.
02:31:41 <david_pi> I think that's all. No more missed.
02:32:30 <david_pi> I'll goto lunch now.
02:33:04 <kAlug> And I'll sleep. Later.
02:33:05 <david_pi> Bye. Hope to see it pubic soon.
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02:42:53 <Aerok> Does anyone here uses OpenHatch?
02:45:06 <ChrisMorgan> Aerok: you mentioned the language "crack"; have you tried it at all?
02:46:46 <Aerok> As I wrote, it's still in development; however it seems to be something to keep an eye on. And has high activity: http://code.google.com/p/crack-language/updates/list
02:47:41 <ChrisMorgan> It's LLVM-based which makes me think it's likely to have dependencies for deployment.
02:48:36 <Aerok> Well, we can use it for something else than the launcher.
02:49:22 <ChrisMorgan> Doesn't look to me worth while. Once you get to dealing with changing languages, Python's nicer.
02:49:48 <ChrisMorgan> Especially with a new language still heavily under development, I would avoid it for significant production code.
02:50:49 <Aerok> "... it seems to be something to keep an eye on". When it's ready.
02:51:15 <ChrisMorgan> I don't think it's really worth keeping an eye on. Python's better. :-)
02:54:42 <Aerok> I had an idea about warning the user when an app uses settings from other (IIRC currently app B's settings will overwrite app A's settings).
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03:24:36 <JohnTHaller> and back
03:35:10 <JohnTHaller> The platform release is done. I just need to package it and update the updater database for some new features. This cold is kicking my butt at the moment, so I'm gonna catch some sleep. Watch for the announcement tomorrow!
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04:58:54 <mr_nani> hello
05:00:12 <mr_nani> is anyone not sleeping
05:00:25 <mr_nani> ?
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08:07:15 <pa_1892> help!
08:07:16 <GizmoBot> pa_1892: Welcome to the PortableApps.com official chatroom. Ask your question and someone should be able to help you shortly. If you still don't get an answer, try posting on the forums: http://portableapps.com/forums
08:10:09 <pa_1892> I am installing skype portable 5.5.59.119 on windows 7 ulitmate. Everything working perfectly except it keeps swicthing to bulgarian language everytime I restart it.
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10:06:41 <techfreak245> mornin ll
10:06:43 <techfreak245> all
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11:32:34 <GizmoBot> auscompgeek is the dev of ChatZilla Portable (if it'll ever actually be released)
11:32:56 <auscompgeek> why was I never in here
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13:49:04 <at3mlos> nice :) hello @all
13:49:54 <at3mlos> uhm, got a issue starting chrome portable, is there a change someone could help me with that?
13:51:40 * at3mlos assumes not
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17:38:40 <Simeon> hi all
17:40:26 <TPFC-SYSTEM> Hi Simeon
17:41:05 <Simeon> later all
17:41:46 <TPFC-SYSTEM> Later. :)
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21:23:58 <Willito> Hi there, the application aMSN - free open source MSN Messenger clone - has a virus, my AVG said me that it has virus WISH.EXE
21:24:29 <Willito> what do you say about that?
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23:26:33 <kAlug> ChrisMorgan: What about using Semantic Versioning for PAL? http://semver.org/
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