IRC Log from 2011-11-04
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00:23:29 <TheKing44> Hello, how do you safely move the portable apps suit.
00:24:15 <TheKing44> To a new location.
00:24:26 <kAlug_> TheKing44: Just move it.
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00:24:47 <kAlug_> And remember to close it and any portable app before doing that.
00:24:52 <techfreak243> uh huh
00:24:58 <TheKing44> Are you sure, I heard on the forumns where that that wasn't safe.
00:25:37 <qwertymodo_> I forgot my password and apparently forgot which email I used to register... any way of finding out what email address is associated with my account?
00:25:49 <kAlug_> TheKing44: You're going to move it to a new drive or to a new folder? Also, can you link where did you heard that?
00:26:07 <techfreak243> @qwertymodo i have no idea
00:27:04 <TheKing44> http://portableapps.com/node/28498
00:27:36 <TheKing44> Also, I'm moving it from a usb to a 3rd party portable dropbox on the same usb.
00:30:04 <kAlug_> TheKing44: In this case, I'd suggest you to copy instead of moving them. Then you can check each app to see if it's working.
00:30:12 <TheKing44> okay
00:30:15 <TheKing44> thanks
00:30:33 <techfreak243> just read the replies they are all from the main people that make apps
00:30:40 <TheKing44> I'll try that and come up if it completly melts my computer.
00:30:42 <TheKing44> :)
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00:31:31 <kAlug_> qwertymodo_: You'll need to wait until a website admin comes online.
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00:34:43 <qwertymodo_> nevermind, I tried all of my passwords until one of them worked
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00:52:44 <Gizmokid2005> JohnTHaller: get Songbird?
00:52:56 <ZachThibeau> hola John
00:53:07 <techfreak243> hi john
00:53:21 <JohnTHaller> i did. gonna check it out shortly. any major changes? based on my last release?
00:53:23 <JohnTHaller> hi
00:53:50 <Gizmokid2005> no major changes to my knowledge. Local tests show no issues.
00:54:00 <Gizmokid2005> should be based on your last release
00:55:29 <kAlug_> hey John
00:55:32 <techfreak243> hey john, there is a better version of skype for PC vs. the portable version. 5.6.59.110 for pc and still 5.5.110 for portable
00:56:24 <techfreak243> any reason on why there is no update for that?
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00:56:42 <JohnTHaller> techfreak243: As always, we ONLY do the official stable version. 5.5 is the official stable version.
00:57:13 <JohnTHaller> If you check for updates in Skype. Or if you download directly from Skype.com, you will get 5.5.0.124. 5.6 is a beta.
00:57:22 <JohnTHaller> And should not be used in production environments
00:58:29 <JohnTHaller> Some 3rd party download sites mistakenly list 5.6 as the current official release, which is why you should always only trust the publisher site.
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01:35:07 <JohnTHaller> Gizmokid2005: There is a bug in the current SB Portable and your new one where it wipes out the local DB.
01:37:12 <Gizmokid2005> JohnTHaller: hrm...stby
01:37:35 <JohnTHaller> Just built the release and then did a quick test and it wiped out my main DB.
01:38:29 <Gizmokid2005> alright, hang on
01:43:19 <Gizmokid2005> ahh yes
01:43:25 <Gizmokid2005> pretty sure I found it,
01:43:31 <JohnTHaller> what is it?
01:43:47 <Gizmokid2005> line 444-445 of the SongbirdPortable.nsi
01:44:15 <JohnTHaller> There's no /r so it shouldn't remove it if there are files in it
01:44:30 <Gizmokid2005> your profile was in $APPDATA, right?
01:44:36 <JohnTHaller> yup
01:45:33 <Gizmokid2005> just verifying something else, looks like it just doesn't backup the local profile at all
01:45:40 <Gizmokid2005> while it backs up crash reports
01:45:44 <Gizmokid2005> but I need to check right now
01:46:34 <JohnTHaller> It shouldn't need to. We don't with Firefox. We use the -profile switch. Unless SB itself is buggy when setting up a default profile. In which case we could bundle one.
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01:51:16 <JohnTHaller> well, nuts, they ditched manage files in the new Songbird release. Guess I'm ditching Songbird.
01:52:50 <Gizmokid2005> JohnTHaller: did it just dump you back to Songbird setup when you launched local version?
01:52:57 <JohnTHaller> yup
01:53:08 <Gizmokid2005> check appdata
01:53:10 <Gizmokid2005> it didn't kill anything
01:53:11 <Gizmokid2005> :/
01:53:28 <Gizmokid2005> I swear...if they stuck this in the registry too.....
01:53:52 <JohnTHaller> what do you mean it didn't kill anything?
01:55:11 <JohnTHaller> And what in the registry?
01:55:24 <Gizmokid2005> ahhh
01:55:27 <Gizmokid2005> there it went...hrm
01:55:27 <Gizmokid2005> hang on
01:57:41 <Gizmokid2005> oh god...
01:57:43 <Gizmokid2005> ...
01:57:44 <Gizmokid2005> no way
01:58:03 <JohnTHaller> what
01:58:19 <Gizmokid2005> if this is the problem of a simple typo
02:01:45 <Gizmokid2005> JohnTHaller: replace SongbirdPortable.exe with this and test again: http://papps.gizmokid2005.com/Others/SongbirdPortable.exe
02:01:48 <Gizmokid2005> it's fixed in my testing.
02:02:08 <JohnTHaller> source too. what changed?
02:02:16 <Gizmokid2005> verify first please
02:02:26 <Gizmokid2005> line 436
02:02:32 <JohnTHaller> I can't . I have no SB database to preserve now
02:02:35 <Gizmokid2005> it should stand out like a sore thumb.
02:03:36 <JohnTHaller> IO don't see anything wrong wiht the current line 436
02:03:43 <Gizmokid2005> see, I didn't either
02:03:46 <Gizmokid2005> it's missing a trailing \
02:03:51 <Gizmokid2005> otherwise it will remove Songbird2
02:03:54 <Gizmokid2005> because of the /r
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02:04:20 <Gizmokid2005> without the trailing slash, the last folder it sees is Songbird2
02:04:24 <Gizmokid2005> thus wiping the entire folder.
02:04:37 <JohnTHaller> The trailing \ is not require nor present in the examples in the user manual for NSIS
02:05:03 <JohnTHaller> The example they give is: RMDir /r /REBOOTOK $INSTDIR
02:05:03 <Gizmokid2005> it might not be, the trailing slash IS required to mark the last part of the string as a folder
02:05:28 <Gizmokid2005> because line 436 as it stands sees Songbird2 as the directory to remove recursively
02:05:33 <Gizmokid2005> not Crash Reports
02:13:06 <Gizmokid2005> JohnTHaller: Ver is still launcher version, no?
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02:30:31 <kAlug_> ChrisMorgan: Updates on Replace(All|Common)?
02:35:40 <JohnTHaller> Gizmokid2005: Yes, version is the launcher version.
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02:41:15 <Gizmokid2005> JohnTHaller: what should the current version be?
02:41:17 <Gizmokid2005> I had 1.8.0
02:41:21 <JohnTHaller> whatever you want
02:41:38 <Gizmokid2005> I'm going to match it to the current songbird version then and leave it, just for consistency...because I can :D
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02:42:14 <Gizmokid2005> JohnTHaller: packing up songbird again to send to you...this time without the nasty local removal bug
02:42:25 <JohnTHaller> ok cool
02:42:25 <Gizmokid2005> also, you said it was manage folders that was taken out?
02:42:34 <JohnTHaller> seems like it.
02:42:48 <Gizmokid2005> JohnTHaller:
02:42:49 <Gizmokid2005> http://blog.songbirdnest.com/2011/11/01/songbird-1-10-finally/
02:43:07 <Gizmokid2005> the only thing I can find they modified was the syncing setup
02:44:30 <JohnTHaller> Manage Music is officially dead: http://blog.songbirdnest.com/2011/11/01/songbird-1-10-finally/#comment-76642 So, I'm ditching Songbird
02:45:02 <Gizmokid2005> ...wow.
02:45:10 <Gizmokid2005> that's how I keep track of my library... :(
02:45:38 <Gizmokid2005> I may have to pick up nightingale too then...
02:45:55 <Gizmokid2005> here you go JohnTHaller: http://papps.gizmokid2005.com/Songbird/SongbirdPortable_1.10.1.paf.exe the valid RTR release
02:47:34 <Gizmokid2005> JohnTHaller: http://getnightingale.com/ <-- when they finally get on track, I'll probably tack this on too
02:52:37 <JohnTHaller> Cool, I'll post in the AM. Gotta run atm. Night all
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03:47:54 <GizmoBot> GordCaswell is the developer of Armagetron Advanced Portable, Evince Portable & ZSoft Uninstaller Portable
03:49:19 <GordCaswell> .tell JohnTHaller did you get the ZSoftUninstaller revision? I can resend the email if you didn't
03:49:19 <GizmoBot> GordCaswell: I'll pass that on when JohnTHaller is around.
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12:37:29 <pa_6125> can anyone say why the apps can't be downloaded via updater...very slow speeds or sendrequest errrors
12:38:29 <pa_6125> is there anything that can be done to overcome this
12:40:01 <pa_6125> is there anyone here or all are bots :(
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16:33:22 <JohnTHaller> Just did a quick site theme refresh. You can shift-reload if you can't see it yet.
16:45:59 <Gizmokid2005> more red JohnTHaller, interesting
16:46:02 <Gizmokid2005> any particular reason?
16:46:29 <JohnTHaller> the glassy is pretty outdated design-wise. And doesn't match our new menu themes, which was the original reason for it.
16:46:36 <Gizmokid2005> ahh
16:46:39 <Gizmokid2005> it's looking good for sure.
16:46:59 <JohnTHaller> This red gradient is what the menu theme pictured on the homepage will be in the next pre-release or so.
16:48:46 <Gizmokid2005> awesome!
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16:49:00 <Gizmokid2005> also, have you had any reports/noticed that the live search in the menu, is more/less busted?
16:49:14 <Gizmokid2005> ie - When you start typing, unless you're slow, the 2nd keystroke is always lost.
16:50:38 <JohnTHaller> if you have a slower PC, there's no way around that at the moment. so you use the workaround of typing a / first
16:50:49 <Gizmokid2005> No, it's not PC
16:50:59 <Gizmokid2005> because a 6-core Phenom w/16GB ram isn't slow
16:51:00 <Gizmokid2005> it's in the menu
16:51:10 <JohnTHaller> Or lots of apps. Either way, there's ZERO I can do about it.
16:51:24 <JohnTHaller> I may just switch it to require a / first to enable.
16:51:28 <Gizmokid2005> even typing a '/' kills the second keystroke
16:51:33 <Gizmokid2005> which would be the fiirst letter.
16:51:39 <JohnTHaller> how fast are you typing?
16:51:49 <Gizmokid2005> not even that quick
16:51:53 <Gizmokid2005> but not hun/peck style
16:52:03 <JohnTHaller> I type as fast as I can and have never been able to reproduce it
16:52:11 <JohnTHaller> Even in a virtual machine
16:52:25 <Gizmokid2005> unless I watch the menu and let it fully refresh the list for the search prior to typing again, it will do it
16:52:26 <Gizmokid2005> every time.
16:52:54 <JohnTHaller> how many apps do you have?
16:53:07 <Gizmokid2005> 121 app folders
16:53:15 <JohnTHaller> does it happen between 2nd and 3rd letter too?
16:53:19 <Gizmokid2005> nope
16:53:21 <Gizmokid2005> only 1st and 2nd
16:54:14 <JohnTHaller> What if you hit slash, wait for the refresh, then type. Does it lose any then?
16:54:54 <Gizmokid2005> no, doesn't matter how I start it, so long as the refresh completes prior to the next keystroke, it's fine.
16:54:58 <Gizmokid2005> and I'm not even on a slow drive
16:55:07 <Gizmokid2005> this is over USB2/3 on a 2.5" ext hdd.
16:56:00 <JohnTHaller> Hmm... ok. I always thought it was due to the initial switch. Turns out it's number of apps. I usually only have a couple dozen on mine.
16:56:22 <sar3th> i have 1 app and i'm able to reproduce Gizmokid2005's problem
16:56:31 <sar3th> installed on a hdd
16:58:07 <JohnTHaller> I can only reproduce it if a type the two letters immediately after each other. The refresh should be pretty quick since it doesn't go out to the drive for anything.
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17:07:43 <kAlug_> JohnTHaller: GIMP Portable Test has a problem with Python.
17:08:03 <JohnTHaller> We don't support python with GIMP Portable. Never have.
17:09:36 <kAlug_> It's in the distribution. The errors make the first start *very* slow.
17:10:01 <kAlug_> It's just two ${ConfigWrite}s.
17:10:14 <JohnTHaller> As it's a Test and not intended for any actual use, I'm not inclined to spend any time addressing it as I have far more to do. If you have a fix, I'll include it in the next release.
17:11:16 <kAlug_> OK. By the way, any special reasons for it not using PAL?
17:11:34 <JohnTHaller> Old app, hasn't been updated. Not going to update it until the PAL breaking on crash fix is in.
17:11:54 <kAlug_> "breaking on crash"?
17:12:00 <JohnTHaller> Most of the most-popular apps predate PAL and won't be updated until that is fixed.
17:12:28 <JohnTHaller> If the PC crashes or drive is pulled, the app won't restart due to the INI being left behind requiring manual user intervention
17:12:30 <kAlug_> By the way, I see you've reset the website's tracker.
17:12:42 <kAlug_> s/By the way, //
17:13:07 <kAlug_> Oh. Waiting for 2.2 then.
17:13:07 <JohnTHaller> No I haven't. The Views module in Drupal is buggy as all hell and has a broken New/Update detection in the new release (which is required due to a huge security hole in the old release)
17:13:33 <JohnTHaller> Or later. I don't have time to work on them nor is it a priority. They're functional and switching to PAL will take time and effort and testing.
17:14:20 <JohnTHaller> SO I had to turn off New/Update noticed in Recent Posts. New COmments counter should still work but I haven't tested it yet
17:14:52 <kAlug_> I manage to reset Notepad++ from times to times just by opening it too fast.
17:15:31 <JohnTHaller> Like I said, I don't have the time. And the app being unable to start is a larger issue.
17:15:50 <JohnTHaller> After a crash I mean. That's why I wouldn't think about doing it for major apps like FF etc yet
17:16:57 <JohnTHaller> I think PAL 2.2 addressing that (and adding in the cool ReplaceAll feature) will be the reason to start updating those older apps.
17:17:58 <JohnTHaller> But lots of apps are non-PAL. FF, TB, SB, SeaMonkey, Songbird, Pidgin, N++, etc. The only major app that's PAL so far is LibreOffice.
17:18:05 <kAlug_> Sorry if I sounded like I was demanding you to switch them.
17:18:47 <kAlug_> This is why I've asked for any "special reasons".
17:18:54 <JohnTHaller> I tried to get Chrome to PAL in the last release and failed after wasting 2 hours on it. Granted, it's one of the most complicated apps and needs to address a Registry key with the Chrome version number in it (which PAL can't do).
17:19:15 <JohnTHaller> No worries. Just overburdened at the moment figuring out finances and the next platform release.
17:19:23 <kAlug_> IIRC, you can use a command-line switch too.
17:19:40 <kAlug_> In the log from the our last Chrome's bug report.
17:19:49 <JohnTHaller> for what?
17:20:35 <kAlug_> Version. Or you can move the contents from the *version* directory to alongside Chrome.exe.
17:20:37 <JohnTHaller> I made an exception for Chrome (in terms of updating it to PAL) because its launcher is still ANSI and breaks with Unicode paths. But I ended up wasting too much time on it. Had it all working except that registry key and didn't want to have to recompile the launcher for every release.
17:21:01 <JohnTHaller> Shoot me the info on how it works if you get the chance and I'll take a peak
17:21:15 * kAlug_ is looking at Chromium's source code
17:21:26 <JohnTHaller> Chromium works differently, I think.
17:22:45 <kAlug_> It's worth a try.
17:24:25 <kAlug_> From what I see, it uses the default Unix convention: check command line, then environment, then system/Registry.
17:24:49 <JohnTHaller> Hmm... so we could pass it in on the command line? What is the switch?
17:25:47 <kAlug_> --chrome-version. Do you have Chrome installed?
17:26:05 <JohnTHaller> Ya
17:31:32 <JohnTHaller> kAlug_: Nice, that seems to work. And I can have it as an env var in the launcher.ini that I update, no need to recompile.
17:32:18 <kAlug_> Check if it modified the registry value (Software\Google\*\pv IIRC)
17:32:22 <JohnTHaller> Just got to reconfigure directories and stuff for it (based on the Iron PAL launcher atm) so it works with existing installs. I'll worry about it later, though. Platform work to do.
17:34:29 <JohnTHaller> it does affect the Software\Google\Update\ClientState hive, but I can backup/restore that I think
17:34:47 <kAlug_> Yeah, that was what I've thought.
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17:51:47 <Gizmokid2005> JohnTHaller: yeah, Songbird is pretty ridiculously complex as well, hence why I haven't looked at it.
17:52:04 <Gizmokid2005> to my knowledge we don't have HEX file editing built into PAL
17:52:10 <Gizmokid2005> and sqlite is missing too isn't it?
17:52:28 <JohnTHaller> It'll require custom code. We do sqlite updates in lots of apps now as all Mozilla apps require it.
17:52:34 <Gizmokid2005> right
17:52:45 <Gizmokid2005> that's what I figured. That's a lot of custom code to write on top of migrating from old to PAL
17:52:49 <Gizmokid2005> hence why SB is the way it is.
17:52:55 <Gizmokid2005> I considered it at one point.
17:53:00 <JohnTHaller> We do have to update SB sometime soon since it still is ANSI as well
17:53:24 <JohnTHaller> I'm gonna take another stab at chrome later this month
17:54:04 <Gizmokid2005> Hrm...I swore I compiled that with Unicode...meh, something to take a look at.
17:54:21 <JohnTHaller> I looked at it for this release but the StripStr function would need rewriting.
17:55:29 <Gizmokid2005> I don't actually have any StripStr functions in there
17:58:52 <JohnTHaller> StrStrip. It's used
17:59:07 <JohnTHaller> And it works on chars one at a time, which needs changing from ANSI to Unicode
18:00:10 <Gizmokid2005> aww hell, yeah...the only place is in the hex file replacement too...go figure.
18:00:17 <Gizmokid2005> yeah...that's going to have to wait.
18:00:22 <Gizmokid2005> that was the worst part of the entire launcher
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18:31:34 <pa_3543> Hai..
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18:31:44 <pa_3543> I'm a new user of this website
18:31:53 <pa_3543> i need help...
18:32:36 <pa_3543> can anyone help..
18:33:11 <pa_3543> i want to do one portable application one software
18:33:14 <pa_3543> how to do that
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18:46:57 <pa_3543> ddd
18:47:32 <JohnTHaller> pa_3543: do you mean you want to build a portable app?
18:49:49 <pa_3543> yes
18:50:23 <pa_3543> a software which is already installed in my PC
18:51:18 <JohnTHaller> We don't really have a step by step guide up for it yet. But if you ask about the software in the Request Apps forum, I'm sure a dev can assist you.
18:52:41 <Gizmokid2005> .def field_guide
18:52:41 <GizmoBot> field_guide is here: http://portableapps.com/node/14868
18:52:46 <Gizmokid2005> ^ that may also help you pa_3543
18:52:57 <Gizmokid2005> It's a bit out of date, but it's still relevant.
18:54:10 <pa_3543> thanks
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19:09:15 <GizmoBot> GordCaswell is the developer of Armagetron Advanced Portable, Evince Portable & ZSoft Uninstaller Portable
19:09:54 <GordCaswell> hi All
19:10:54 <JohnTHaller> hola
19:11:04 <JohnTHaller> GordCaswell: I did get Zsoft, posting today
19:11:23 <GordCaswell> great, thanks
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20:55:16 <kAlug> JohnTHaller: Do you remember a bug involved with an app using English instead of the system's language on first run?
20:55:29 <JohnTHaller> Lots of apps do that
20:58:58 <kAlug> I was wondering if we should let the apps autodetect the language on first run (when they can do that, of course).
20:59:20 <kAlug> Oh, I'm going to (hopefully) finish ReplaceAll today.
20:59:33 <JohnTHaller> We do when we can. But as we generally recommend platform use, it is not critical.
21:00:22 <kAlug> When using PAL, the language is forced to English.
21:00:48 <JohnTHaller> I know. But I code around that in apps that can have a default system language. Usually with a blank entry.
21:01:12 <JohnTHaller> I see what you mean, though. It could be useful to do that within PAL itself.
21:01:28 <JohnTHaller> Even better if we could have the installer drop a hint of the language used to install and then PAL to pick that up on first run.
21:01:55 <JohnTHaller> And if that doesn't exist, then try and guess from the system language
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21:29:55 <kAlug_> Hmm... ReplaceAll involves a bit more of work than I first thought...
21:30:26 <JohnTHaller> It can't just be multiple calls to the existing procedures?
21:32:04 <kAlug_> Yes, but it'll need some refactoring, like the code that makes the :DoubleBackslash... variables available.
21:32:46 <kAlug_> ... Or maybe not so much. Just had an idea...
21:38:26 <kAlug_> And now we'll have a bunch of new PAL:Last* variables [irony]"We are not doing Last* variables anymore, due to the addition of the [LastRunEnvironment] section"[/irony]
21:38:56 <kAlug_> And guess what? They'll all come from that section.
21:39:04 <JohnTHaller> It's far easier to just do the normal ones rather than have devs have to manually select them
21:42:07 <kAlug_> Are these entries good? http://portableapps.com/node/29458#comment-185250
21:43:01 <JohnTHaller> I prefer something besides %s personally. Mainly for consistency with the other stuff. Also, I thought it was PathSeparator
21:44:11 <kAlug_> 1. Yah, you told me that, but the comment is older. 2. java.util.prefs is not a path separator. It's a path format.
21:45:17 <JohnTHaller> Hmmm... what is that anyway?
21:46:43 <kAlug_> changing %s
21:47:03 <kAlug_> Just below my the comment I linked to.
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21:54:33 <kAlug_> JohnTHaller: Is setting these here OK? http://portableapps.hg.sourceforge.net/hgweb/portableapps/launcher/file/f41eb0efe19a/Other/Source/Segments/Variables.nsh#l142
21:56:47 <JohnTHaller> Yes, the Docs, Vids, Music and Pictures seem correct
21:59:02 <kAlug_> For some reason they remind me of the language bug.
21:59:18 <JohnTHaller> How do you mean?
22:00:52 <kAlug_> Nevermind. Just an impression.
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22:08:29 <kAlug_> Allright. 8 new variables.
22:11:44 <GordCaswell> JohnTHaller: the MD5 for SIW is incorrect. the correct value is: f6659d1b9da5076e8cce46e27e83541b
22:11:57 <GordCaswell> it's also incorrect in the updater DB
22:12:18 <JohnTHaller> they must have rebuilt it
22:13:53 <JohnTHaller> Verified, rescanned and updated
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23:23:21 <kAlug_> JohnTHaller: Almost finishing ReplaceAll/Common; just need a help with ${WordReplace} $2 %Paths% $R1 "" $R1 ($2: format string; $R1: new path)
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23:26:43 <kAlug> It doesn't replace %Paths%.
23:28:22 <JohnTHaller> Put a + in between the quotes
23:28:58 <JohnTHaller> And put quotes around %Paths%
23:29:34 <JohnTHaller> Not sure about putting the output in one of the inputs, though
23:32:00 <kAlug> I don't think quotes are necessary. Let me try the +.
23:32:21 <JohnTHaller> I default to using quotes. That way it also hightlights properly in text editors
23:48:20 <kAlug> Sorry for the delay. Managed to overheat my notebook X(
23:48:37 <kAlug> The + made it work. Thanks.
23:49:19 <kAlug> Will just document the >9000 new environment variables and I'll push it to the repo.
23:51:00 <JohnTHaller> Ouch. Notebook ok
23:51:01 <JohnTHaller> ?
23:51:08 <JohnTHaller> heh
23:53:17 <kAlug> It seems to be. I forgot I was building Chromium... over the bed.
23:53:27 <JohnTHaller> Good
23:53:41 <kAlug> Hold on... I will show you how I solved it :lol: