IRC Log from 2011-12-11
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05:08:36 <kAlug> aloh ChrisMorgan
05:08:59 <ChrisMorgan> Ah! you have caught me ;-)
05:10:26 <kAlug> Now I have enough free time to do it at any time of the day.
05:10:56 <kAlug> BTW, I finished organizing that headers.
05:11:03 <ChrisMorgan> Argh! Panic! Must hide!
05:12:17 <kAlug> You can't hide yourself from the sky.
05:12:24 * kAlug bought a disposable $14,000 satellite.
05:14:05 <kAlug> No I didn't, and yes they do exist.
05:15:51 <kAlug> Oh, it's cheaper: http://www.interorbital.com/TubeSat_1.htm
05:18:27 <ChrisMorgan> If you have to launch a new one every several weeks it'll get a bit expensive.
05:24:28 <kAlug> "DARPA has a project to build a largely reusable low-cost launch vehicle capable of putting a 1,000 pound payload into a circular reference orbit of 28.5 at 100 nautical miles high. The target cost is $5,000,000 per launch excluding the payload and payload preparation costs."
05:25:56 <kAlug> Enough for 555 launches with 5 weeks duration = 53 years.
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05:26:19 <kAlug> Expensive, yes, but it's worth the cost.
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05:39:05 <kAlug> ChrisMorgan: 'll push .NET support in a few minutes; just finished building a small NSH preprocessor for the .NET detection code.
05:39:45 <ChrisMorgan> Preprocessor? to do what?
05:40:43 *** pa_6260 (60288276@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.40.130.118) has joined #portableapps
05:41:01 <pa_6260> Is anyone here to answer a quick question please?
05:41:05 <ChrisMorgan> Yep
05:41:11 <pa_6260> Thank you.
05:41:41 <pa_6260> I was wondering, if you have a self contained application that can run from the thumb, is there anyway to add a shortcut for launching it to the PA launcher?
05:42:07 <ChrisMorgan> http://portableapps.com/support/portable_apps_suite#addingotherapps
05:44:11 <pa_6260> Oh thank you. I thought that was just for the specially designed PAs. Let me give it a quick whirl to make sure it works. Already installed the app, just need it to show up on the awesome menu :)
05:45:31 <pa_6260> Ok, did a refresh and nothing showed up. Its installed in the PortableApps folder, with the structure App\Sub\Exec. Do I need to name the folder in some special way?
05:46:18 <kAlug> Try App\Exec.
05:47:54 <pa_6260> Ok, one sec to see if I can do that. To spare you any wasted time, let me explain what it is. Comodo Dragon can be installed as portable. So I did it to the PortableApps folder and it has the Comodo\Dragon\Exec format. But I also have another app that is just good old PortableApps\Exec but that won't show either so I was wondering if I did something wrong and why I reached out.
05:48:46 <pa_6260> Do I need to modify any type of PA file that would explicitly "know" the path?
05:49:20 <kAlug> No, unless you have multiple executables in the app folder.
05:50:31 <kAlug> Dragon's main executable should be at \PortableApps\ComodoDragon\dragon.exe (or something like that).
05:50:32 <pa_6260> Nope, just a EXE and its related DLL files and stuff of course. But one executable only.
05:51:19 <pa_6260> At the moment it has this structure: X:\PortableApps\Comodo\Dragon\dragon.exe, you think that's the problem?
05:51:30 <kAlug> Yep.
05:52:02 <pa_6260> Ok, so I will remove it, reinstall it with the all in one directory but that brings me to the other one I mentioned which has the structure you showed.
05:52:45 <pa_6260> That one is X:\PortableApps\TrayIt\trayit.exe, so why isn't that one showing up either? Just trying to understand, hope you bear with me on this.
05:52:55 <kAlug> You can try moving the files in Comodo\Dragon to the Comodo folder.
05:53:02 <pa_6260> I am actually not a novice, just not used to messing with the PA structure and framework yet.
05:53:35 <pa_6260> Ok, let me give that a shot.
05:53:35 <kAlug> Is there a PortableApps folder within the PortableApps folder itself?
05:54:43 <pa_6260> There is a PortableApps.com folder within the PortableApps folder, but that's all.
05:55:17 <pa_6260> Ok, success I think.
05:55:29 <kAlug> Hmm... TrayIt should be showing up... is that the only executable in the folder, too?
05:55:55 <pa_6260> I changed the Comodo folder name to ComodoDragon and moved all the contents of the Dragon folder to the one just under it and it refreshed and showed up. Now me try and run it and see if it works.
05:56:09 <pa_6260> Yes, trayit, that's the only exec in there.
05:56:57 <pa_6260> Ok, I am an idiot, sorry. TrayIt showed up, it was just burried in the menu and I had missed it :( embarrassed, sorry. You are right, it showed up.
05:57:10 <pa_6260> Thank you, just let me make sure they run now and I am a happy camper.
05:59:29 <pa_6260> So far so good, thank you very much for your patience and assistance. Have a good night.
05:59:49 <kAlug> You're welcome.
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06:05:55 <ChrisMorgan> kAlug: what do you reckon of scrapping PAL 2.2, including .NET support, GhostScript support, maybe one or two other things and calling it 3.0? Let's all jump on the high-version-numbers bandwagon!
06:09:05 <kAlug> Our six-month term for 2.2 release is already over, and my dev tests are already using the beta. I'd say release 2.2 as 3.0, include other things and release 3.1. I'd also like to follow http://semver.org/ .
06:13:45 <kAlug> What about tagging (*maybe* release*) 2.2/3.0 now, before we decide to add anything else to it?
06:15:29 <ChrisMorgan> semver is not applicable to us because we don't have an API, really, and have no need to support multiple versions ever. We can upgrade things so that they're always up to date..
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06:16:15 <ChrisMorgan> And more so, ours isn't the sort of thing where we are finding bugs. We're introducing new features very regularly. Backwards-incompatible changes are here a little, there a little. I just don't think the model fits.
06:18:25 <kAlug> Can you check if we can already revert changeeset a9154be0d86d (fix for bug #28522, refixed with mutexes)?
06:21:57 <ChrisMorgan> I think we should consider the default branch open for .NET and GhostScript support at least, and go for 3.0.
06:22:05 <ChrisMorgan> I've got GhostScript support done, as a matter of fact.
06:25:24 <ChrisMorgan> OK, I think I'll put Ghostscript in and deal with testing it thoroughly later, and turn 2.2 and 2.3 into 3.0.
06:26:37 <kAlug> Can't we just release it? Just 2.2? PLEASE? We'll end up feature-crepped.
06:26:58 <ChrisMorgan> kAlug: I'm putting Registry.nsh back in, we need it so MoveKey works properly from HKLM to HKCU when not running as admin.
06:27:12 <ChrisMorgan> Wait, sorry, didn't check properly :-/
06:27:47 <ChrisMorgan> I'm not happy with the state of its testing. Make it just what we have now plus .NET and Ghostscript?
06:28:33 <kAlug> That will mean more features to test.
06:28:40 <ChrisMorgan> True.
06:28:50 <ChrisMorgan> But as it is we need to test things anyway.
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06:30:30 <ChrisMorgan> I'd more or less like to just clean up the situation by including everything we've got now and going for release once more.
06:30:42 <ChrisMorgan> You say you've got .NET ready, I've got Ghostscript ready, so they may as well go in.
06:31:56 <kAlug> Alright, you won.
06:33:04 <ChrisMorgan> Sorry if it makes you unhappy. I realise it's not really very good scope management!
06:33:47 <kAlug> scope... I haven't show to you why I needed a NSIS preprocessor, right?
06:33:50 <kAlug> http://p.kalug.net/7
06:35:11 <ChrisMorgan> No. What am I meant to see from that?
06:37:20 <ChrisMorgan> (I don't see what the preprocessing is or what it's doing.)
06:39:14 <kAlug> Just some new syntax. Now see the generated code: http://p.kalug.net/2
06:39:17 <ChrisMorgan> BTW, your ${Else} ${If} ${Errors} ... ${Else} ... ${EndIf} ${EndIf} could be done as ${ElseIf} ${Errors} ... ${Else} ... ${EndIf}
06:39:38 <kAlug> BTW, it was "Built with Python" \o/
06:40:11 <kAlug> Indeed. Thanks.
06:41:58 <ChrisMorgan> Is all it's doing adding syntax sugar (@@ = $[library-prefix], :Macro: = !macro [library-prefix]) for easier library management?
06:43:16 <kAlug> And include guards and automatic variable declaration and variable scope.
06:44:39 <ChrisMorgan> And ruins comments and line indentation ;-)
06:45:13 <kAlug> You don't look at C's preprocessor output, right?
06:45:58 <ChrisMorgan> Not most of the time (but occasionally when I want to look at the output)
06:46:45 <kAlug> Is it better formatted than this?
06:47:27 <kAlug> (Of course, cpp doesn't recreate your source code, it just makes some changes to it)
06:48:18 <ChrisMorgan> Can't remember. Last time I was doing it was when I was trying to compile wxWebConnect stuff to get BPBible 0.5 working on Linux, and wxWidgets was misbehaving (and I worked it out, with the help of the preprocessor output.)
06:49:26 <kAlug> Well, anyway, it isn't mean to be read by humans.
06:49:59 <ChrisMorgan> Not sure I approve of a preprocessor for this stuff... it doesn't get to do enough. All it's doing is trivial stuff. Seems to me if we were going into the preprocessor business we might as well at least make it do more... like scrapping ${ } on most of our defines...
06:50:21 <ChrisMorgan> And then integrate it properly in the build process.
06:50:32 <kAlug> I thought on doing that.
06:50:52 <kAlug> There's also a less powerful pure-NSIS version: http://p.kalug.net/1
06:52:22 <ChrisMorgan> Eek! More ${ }! Creepy! ;-)
06:52:39 <ChrisMorgan> I'll admit I was thinking to myself how it could be done in NSIS.
06:52:46 <kAlug> Guess why I worked on a preprocessor.
06:54:44 <ChrisMorgan> In the future, some time, I'm more interested in switching languages. I need to look more at RPython some time.
06:55:10 <kAlug> Do you want to take a look at the code for that? Be prepared =:) (emoticon for "AHHHH!!!")
06:56:19 <ChrisMorgan> I... don't... know.
06:56:22 <ChrisMorgan> Try me :-)
06:57:26 <kAlug> http://p.kalug.net/5
06:57:57 <kAlug> $${:${name}}
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06:58:39 <ChrisMorgan> Someone threw a glass of water over me ;-)
06:59:45 <ChrisMorgan> Seems to me you've been wasting your time. :P (And benefiting from the practice, too, I dare say.)
07:01:47 <kAlug> I spent the last two nights coding PuTTY's portable support. I need a break from C.
07:03:05 <ChrisMorgan> What's your Python preprocessor code like?
07:06:30 <kAlug> http://p.kalug.net/3
07:09:05 <ChrisMorgan> PEP8 likes you to call your functions make_module rather than makeModule
07:10:35 <ChrisMorgan> And do def fn(args): rather than def fn (args):
07:10:36 <kAlug> I'm rather author-consistent than language-consistent, i.e. all my code, in any language, will look the same.
07:11:44 <kAlug> And I don't like PEP 8 that much.
07:11:45 <ChrisMorgan> Which is not a good thing, really. Python is not like standard C-family languages and thus shouldn't be given their styles.
07:13:29 <ChrisMorgan> Well, any code that I have any say over will follow most of PEP8. The 80-characters bit is about the only bit that I really disregard (I have no compunction in going up to 120, only keeping under 80 if it's particularly practical)
07:14:09 <kAlug> I'll reconsider once I learn a functional language.
07:14:27 <kAlug> Anyway, project style still has higher precedence.
07:14:38 <kAlug> s/higher/highest/
07:16:34 <ChrisMorgan> True. At work I don't get to write Python code how I like it always.
07:17:28 <kAlug> Hmm... I have to recharge my notebook. Will try to drop ${} from LogicLib code. I'll back in ~30 minutes.
07:17:38 <kAlug> With .NET support for PAL.
07:17:41 <ChrisMorgan> Don't bother. We'll do it properly later.
07:18:27 <ChrisMorgan> Just put in the .NET code (processed version, I'd say, and simplify the expanded names, they're ugly and don't need to be that specific)
07:21:37 <ChrisMorgan> Largely, though, I think doing a preprocessor is a waste of time. Switching languages will produce much more benefit (and associated risk, of course)
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09:38:41 <kAlug> ChrisMorgan: Do you have some knowledge on regular expressions?
09:38:48 <ChrisMorgan> Sure do.
09:39:36 <kAlug> Why does r'\bIf !\b' doesn't match r' If ! ${IsValidDotNetVersion} @@Temp'?
09:39:48 <ChrisMorgan> kAlug: about "dropping ${} from LogicLib code", don't bother with it yet. We'll do it later - if ever.
09:40:37 <ChrisMorgan> Neither '!' nor ' ' is a "word" character, so no word boundary matches between '!' and ' '.
09:40:54 <ChrisMorgan> If you want to just make sure that there's a space afterwards, use (?= )
09:41:29 <ChrisMorgan> Anyway, if you use vim with my NSIS syntax file, all the LogicLib commands get highlighted appropriately.
09:43:55 <kAlug> I don't use vim (at least not on Windows).
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09:44:19 <kAlug> hello TPFC-SYSTEM
09:44:32 <ChrisMorgan> kAlug: that's not my fault ;-)
09:45:39 <TPFC-SYSTEM> Hi kAlug
09:45:47 <kAlug> Don't worry, eventually I'll build a mind reader (if I get enough funding) :)-|=
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09:46:21 * kAlug needs to build better emoticons
09:46:45 <maged_> hi
09:47:05 <kAlug> hi maged_
09:47:26 <maged_> can you hellp me
09:47:36 <maged_> ?
09:47:58 <ChrisMorgan> We sure can.
09:48:26 <maged_> i have aloot of program wana to make it portable
09:50:09 <maged_> what is steps
09:50:10 <maged_> ?
09:51:01 <maged_> and what is .paf.exe
09:51:05 <maged_> ?
09:51:53 <TPFC-SYSTEM> I recommend you start by reading this post: http://portableapps.com/node/14868
09:52:14 <ChrisMorgan> maged_: it's not just an easy process; it requires work. To put you off (unless you're into this sort of thing), take a look at http://portableapps.com/development
09:53:11 <maged_> thx
09:54:36 <TPFC-SYSTEM> The characters "paf" in .paf.exe refer to the PortableApps.com Format: http://portableapps.com/development/portableapps.com_format
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10:13:07 <TPFC-SYSTEM> PortableApps.com logo at http://portableapps.com/about/press needs updating.
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13:04:29 <TPFC-SYSTEM> PuTTY 0.62 beta is available.
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13:07:51 <TPFC-SYSTEM> As is Pidgin 2.10.1. The files are available at http://sourceforge.net/projects/pidgin/files/Pidgin/2.10.1/
13:08:02 <TPFC-SYSTEM> It's a security update, BTW.
13:11:07 <TPFC-SYSTEM> Stratch that. There isn't a Windows build of 2.10.1 yet. :(
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15:47:12 <Ahmad> hi
15:47:41 <Ahmad> can any body answer my question please?
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19:39:12 <RJ_> hello, I have a question
19:41:34 <RJ_> can someone tell me why my memory stick do not start automatically when I plug it into the USB port
19:42:31 <RJ_> the interface do not start automatically, but first ask what i want to do
19:42:58 <benedikt93> Since Vista (IIRC also since some update for XP), autorun from removable disks has been deactivated for security reasons, I'd guess that this is what you're affected by
19:44:07 <RJ_> pity
19:44:26 <RJ_> thanks!
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21:06:13 <pa_5349> help
21:06:14 <GizmoBot> pa_5349: Welcome to the PortableApps.com official chatroom. Ask your question and someone should be able to help you shortly. If you still don't get an answer, try posting on the forums: http://portableapps.com/forums
21:07:04 <pa_5349> i cannot change the skins in FoxitReader. I change it to black, press apply, then close app and when I open it is blue
21:07:53 <pa_5349> is there another way
21:12:59 *** pa_5349 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
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22:27:05 <hubbard.freenode.net> Topic for #portableapps is: Welcome to the PortableApps.com support channel. If you need assistance, just say "help!", or ask your question, and WAIT rather than just leaving. | PortableApps.com flash drives are now available! http://worldsbestflashdrive.com/ | This channel is logged: http://g2k5.us/6h | The channel rules are here: http://g2k5.us/6g - Read and abide by them
22:27:05 <hubbard.freenode.net> Users on #portableapps: palogbot jason404 @ZachThibeau Guest91035 Thasmo dbdii407 z3uS rcmaehl Zarggg Suiseiseki sar3th AlleyKat agdurrette_znc PlauSocks +OliverK Mir
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22:30:01 <GizmoBot> ZachThibeau is the main developer of PChat and is a developer with PortableApps.com
22:30:01 <GizmoBot> dbdii407 is Dave, Co-owner of the ext3 IRC Network.
22:30:04 <GizmoBot> palogbot is the logging bot for #portableapps . Logs are found at http://nascent-project.org/irc/logs . If he dies: http://nascent-project.org/portableapps/irc/restart
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22:31:04 <GizmoBot> Gizmokid2005 is the developer of KVIrc Portable: http://g2k5.us/4j and Songbird Portable: http://g2k5.us/4k
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