IRC Log from 2012-02-01
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01:08:25 <pa_1551> when I launch the portableaps launcher from the start icon, openoffice starts automatic, can I stop it
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01:10:19 <kAlug> pa_1151: Yes.
01:10:51 <kAlug> Right-click the OpenOffice icon and uncheck "Start Automatically".
01:16:57 <pa_1551> when I right click on it there is no box like that to check
01:19:03 <kAlug> Hmm... can you check the version of the Platform you're using? It's on Help -> About the PortableApps.com Platform.
01:20:14 <pa_1551> version 10.0.1
01:20:54 <kAlug> Hold on...
01:27:19 <kAlug> Are you sure there's nothing like this? http://i.imgur.com/5uvLj.png
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03:28:01 <vf2nsr> Hi JohnTHaller nice job on ff and tb man you are fast
03:30:15 <JohnTHaller> i try :-)
03:38:08 <vf2nsr> and do well sorry slow to respond working in other chat prgroam I volunteer for
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03:39:38 <vf2nsr> dang closed window instead of minimize
03:39:45 <JohnTHaller> heh
03:41:15 <vf2nsr> Any problems on the rebuild of Rednotebook?
03:42:05 <JohnTHaller> It doesn't yet properly handle upgrades when the user has specified an alternate location for their files and I haven't had time to check out the code yet.
03:42:46 <vf2nsr> hmmm it should I have it in my documents and handled that ok
03:43:06 <vf2nsr> but by default I believe it saved data to the data folder
03:43:40 <JohnTHaller> It does. But a user can change that. And the upgrade code doesn't handle that. It just rewrites it to default, I think.
03:44:26 <vf2nsr> OK I see what you mean
03:44:49 <JohnTHaller> I had that almost done in my build before. Just haven't had time to get back to it.
03:44:54 <vf2nsr> so we need to to remeber the file wherever they put it?
03:45:18 <JohnTHaller> Need to ConfigRead the value and compare to the last run directory mentioned by the launcher to see if it's default or not, I think
03:46:02 <vf2nsr> ok so if I understand we need to make it totally crash proof?
03:47:10 <vf2nsr> I was not aware that that had to be done
03:49:41 <vf2nsr> Did I leave out the settings ini I know you had added it in 1
03:50:52 <vf2nsr> seems Like I keep screwin git up
03:51:50 <vf2nsr> guess I will leave it to you for now on
03:58:07 <JohnTHaller> vf2nsr: It's just an issue on upgrade since the path to the default data changes. Nothing you screwed up. Just something neither of us built yet,.
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04:00:43 <kAlug> Greetings from The Onion!
04:01:30 <JohnTHaller> huh?
04:02:01 <kAlug> See my hostname: gateway/*tor*-sasl/kalug
04:02:37 <kAlug> How are you John?
04:02:47 <JohnTHaller> Sleepy. Didn't sleep last night.
04:02:47 <vf2nsr> ok let me look at it maybe I can figure something did not reallize it would need total crash proofing
04:03:07 <JohnTHaller> vf2nsr: It's not crash proofing. It's not losing user data on an upgrade.
04:05:06 <vf2nsr> OK but the prgram need to be made so that no matter where a suer puts there data it is saved?
04:05:16 <vf2nsr> even if they store it in the appdir?
04:05:59 <JohnTHaller> It already does that. The current release does anyway. NO not App directory. We never support that. I mean if they point it to another directory, like in Documents. The current upgrade process will lose that location and reset it to the default, making a user think they lost all their data
04:06:33 <vf2nsr> but that is store in the data folder?
04:06:43 <vf2nsr> so it should not be lost?
04:06:47 <vf2nsr> now I am confused
04:07:24 <JohnTHaller> This is simple. Sometimes, a user will manually change where their data is stored for RedNotebook. The location where the actual notebook is. And put it in, say, their X:\Documents directory.
04:08:06 <JohnTHaller> We ALWAYS preserve that information for them on upgrades. Always have. The current upgrade custom code you have loses that information on upgrade due to our need to change the default location (if the user is still using the default).
04:09:19 <vf2nsr> ok guess I never had this issue so if it worked previously but not now it is in the ini file I cfreated when I fixed the appicon database isue
04:09:35 <vf2nsr> so I guess I took too much out
04:09:43 <JohnTHaller> No. Again, no. This ONLY applies during an upgrade. Only an installer issue.
04:09:53 <JohnTHaller> Nothing to do with the launcher at all.
04:10:02 <vf2nsr> because I assumed the config file you had it writing was duplicating the one it wrote
04:10:31 <vf2nsr> I am confused it is same installer we always used?
04:10:44 <vf2nsr> I will leave well enough alone and let you deal w ith it
04:11:07 <vf2nsr> I just do not understand what changed as I used same Pal Installer builder etc
04:11:12 <JohnTHaller> The structure of Data completely changed in your release. So we have to handle that. Did you test upgrades with existing data where the user changed the location?
04:11:32 <vf2nsr> Thought I did I checked it on my system
04:11:44 <vf2nsr> I save mine in documents
04:11:47 <vf2nsr> not in Data
04:11:54 <JohnTHaller> And it worked and didn't mess it up?
04:12:11 <JohnTHaller> What about where the user does use the default location (in Data). Is that preserved?
04:12:36 <vf2nsr> yes that is preszerved since Data folder is not removed in install
04:13:04 <vf2nsr> let me do some checking again and will get back to you
04:13:09 <JohnTHaller> Right, but did you test it? Remember there is a setting in the config file POINTING to the location of the last used folder. One way or another that needs to change.
04:13:33 <vf2nsr> in your config file or the apps?
04:13:37 <vf2nsr> that may be the issue
04:14:17 <vf2nsr> in the previous bulid you created a filewrite in ini folder for a config file
04:14:19 <JohnTHaller> Ignore anything to do with me. Have you ensured that a user can upgrade from the current released version on the site to yours without losing any data? Both in instances where their notebook is in Data and where it is in Documents?
04:14:40 <vf2nsr> thought I had guess I wll do more testing
04:14:42 <vf2nsr> sorry
04:15:03 <vf2nsr> back to the programming bbl
04:15:07 <JohnTHaller> I don't know whether you have or not. I haven't tested it. That's usually not my job. I'm just asking if you have ensured you tested it all.
04:15:32 <vf2nsr> thought I had but now not sure
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04:15:56 <kAlug> John, have you changed the website's design again?
04:16:09 <JohnTHaller> Not since I posted about changing the font.
04:17:14 <JohnTHaller> Why?
04:17:16 <kAlug> It looks wider, and I'm sure I haven't changed my custom CSS.
04:17:32 <JohnTHaller> I haven't changed a single thing. And I never changed any of the layout measurements.
04:17:57 <JohnTHaller> Not using Chrome are you?
04:18:32 <kAlug> Yep.
04:18:49 <JohnTHaller> Figures. The only folks having any issues are using Chrome and random bugs are cropping up.
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04:22:02 <kAlug> Anyway, I like how it looks now (even if it's just me). The only problem I have is with WebFonts+slow networks. Guess I'll look for a Windows text-only browser.
04:22:47 <JohnTHaller> Surprised since a large number of websites are using custom fonts these days. Even lots of news sites.
04:25:41 <kAlug> Yep. This is why I decided to use them on mine too. Yet, when on a slow network, I want content, not presentation. And for some reason Chrome wants to load everything first.
04:25:51 <kronophskiy> Yo
04:25:57 <JohnTHaller> It's a total of 64KB for the font used. Downloaded once and cached. About the size of 3 app icons or screenshot thumbnails. Much smaller than the homepage graphics or full-size screenshots.
04:25:58 <kAlug> Ya!
04:26:01 <kronophskiy> Can I share some screenshots?
04:26:25 <JohnTHaller> You'd have to be on something like dialup for it to be an issue.
04:26:34 <JohnTHaller> kronophskiy: What kind of screenshots?
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04:27:09 <kronophskiy> JohnTHaller: of the pa platform in use
04:27:18 <kAlug> GPRS. Very slow GPRS. Can make pings and DNS resolutions timeout.
04:27:23 <JohnTHaller> Share how?
04:29:06 <JohnTHaller> With slow GPRS, I'd wager you'd need to surf with images and CSS off anyway, which would disable the fonts.
04:30:27 <kAlug> I still need to take some time to find a way to disable them.
04:30:35 <kAlug> And before i forget: http://portableapps.chrismorgan.info/irc/logs/?t=2012-01-12#T18-03-21
04:30:55 <JohnTHaller> I think Opera has those switches built in. Firefox and Chrome aren't built for that. Though Firefox has extensions for it.
04:31:27 <JohnTHaller> kAlug: What am I supposed to be looking at?
04:31:52 <kAlug> The line at 18:03:21.
04:32:05 <kAlug> 'till 18:09:59
04:32:43 <JohnTHaller> stealth.to link?
04:32:54 <kAlug> Yep.
04:33:44 <JohnTHaller> removed
04:34:04 <sar3th> correct, opera has options to disable image loading and css on the fly
04:35:21 <kAlug> Hm.. I like my current browser.
04:35:58 <JohnTHaller> As long as cache is on, you only need to download the fonts once.
04:36:32 <kAlug> Argh... hold on, I have a screenshot to share...
04:37:01 <kronophskiy> JohnTHaller: upload to the site or pass on to you
04:37:07 <sar3th> i especially like the "load images from cache" option
04:37:38 <JohnTHaller> kronophskiy: Why do you need to send us screenshots? Generally, if it's a support issue, you post in the forums and upload anything relevant to imgur.com to include in the post.
04:37:50 <kronophskiy> I've made a PE from Windows 7 and including the PA platform as a startup item. So I have a whole bootable OS on my USB, complete with a ton of apps
04:37:59 <kronophskiy> JohnTHaller: just for promotion
04:38:40 <JohnTHaller> Promotion of the platform, your work? What you have is cool, but it can't be distributed,
04:39:45 <kronophskiy> Yeah, screens of the platform in everyday use, and examples of how it is customized
04:39:56 <kronophskiy> I work as a computer tech, so I make extensive use of it
04:40:35 <JohnTHaller> Ah, fun. We don't really have an area for user-submitted content on the site. Some folks share on our Facebook wall. And on their own blogs, sites, etc of course.
04:41:48 <kronophskiy> Tres bon
04:42:12 <JohnTHaller> Me thinks we should consider user-submitted content in our upcoming Community section
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04:43:16 <kAlug> Funny. imgur lets me upload the image before telling they don't accept Tor-sourced uploads.
04:43:39 <JohnTHaller> Why are you using Tor anyway? It's insanely slow.
04:44:24 <kronophskiy> Tor is increasingly becoming a platform for trolls to do their thing
04:45:18 <kAlug> Trolls will end up taking over the world. I don't like that.
04:45:38 <kronophskiy> Haven't they already?
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04:46:51 <kAlug> And here is it: http://i.imgur.com/u2oiB.png . And yes, I have cache enabled.
04:47:21 <JohnTHaller> kAlug: What happens if you use real Chrome instead of Chromium?
04:47:29 <kAlug> kronophskiy: No. Just the Main Internet.
04:48:01 <JohnTHaller> If a browser shows a page as blank when it can't load the font for it, that's a HUGELY buggy browser :)
04:48:35 <kAlug> JohnTHaller: No clue. Don't have it installed. And I just cancelled it before it loaded the whole thing.
04:48:35 <kronophskiy> Good to see someone else uses Clementine :o)
04:48:48 <JohnTHaller> Wonder if they block Tor
04:48:55 <JohnTHaller> Hang on a second
04:50:47 <kAlug> Ah, here's it, in the cache.
04:52:27 <kAlug> I'm starting to think it's related to how Chrome renderizes the content, not to connection issues.
04:52:51 <JohnTHaller> Chrome seems to be very buggy with its font handling. Which is odd considering that Google is pushing for web fonts.
04:52:58 <kAlug> It prints the table, then the header, the logo and shades, and finally the text.
04:53:16 <kAlug> kronophskiy: How do you know that?
04:53:32 <kAlug> Oh wait, it's the screenshot.
04:54:50 <kAlug> Yeah, Portable Edition™ by me (in testing currently).
04:56:10 <JohnTHaller> Does the phrase "Making the Web Beautiful" show up on this page for you? https://developers.google.com/webfonts/
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04:56:41 <kAlug> JohnTHaller: Don't worry with that anymore.
04:56:46 <JohnTHaller> how come?
04:57:08 <vf2nsr> JohnTHaller: I think I got it figured out and fixed just testing one more thing in it
04:57:29 <JohnTHaller> vf2nsr: cool
04:57:29 <kAlug> Fine. Not that anyone should be using that font.
04:57:49 <JohnTHaller> kAlug: Well, yeah. Any idea why it isn't showing up on PA.c for you?
04:59:03 <kAlug> It is. I'm just wondering why the text isn't renderized before the images are all loaded.
04:59:35 <JohnTHaller> Chrome has a less efficient process of loading fonts than Firefox. Google has a Javascript workaround that improves its performance.
04:59:46 <kAlug> Chrome folks once wrote a whole article on the reason of their odd renderizing order.
05:00:14 <JohnTHaller> It's funny they have a Javascript hack to 'fix' it to work more like Firefox, then.
05:00:58 <kAlug> Well, switching subjects, kronophskiy brought me to the reason I came here now: I'm thinking on contacting Clementine's devs about my in-testing version.
05:01:20 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, what did you say about a disagreement with a dev yesterday? I was away from keyboard at the time.
05:01:52 <kronophskiy> kAlug: a portable version would be sweet. It's far better than Songbird imo
05:01:58 <kronophskiy> Anyway, work calls, see you
05:03:17 <kAlug> Not a dev. An user. He wanted source-level portability. And I tried a bit.
05:03:28 <JohnTHaller> source-level?
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05:04:20 <kAlug> Yep. Base-app level (and cross-platform too).
05:04:28 <JohnTHaller> Ah ok
05:04:39 <JohnTHaller> Nice goal. But not as important at the moment. Especially with Wine
05:05:04 <kAlug> Here: https://groups.google.com/d/topic/clementine-player/tfeDdejSuHQ/discussion . It has been some time now. I think I could have handled the conversation better.
05:05:53 <kAlug> Anyway, I gave up on making it why I was unable to build Clementine, and then, test my changes. I'll stay with my launcher for now.
05:06:05 <kAlug> s/why/because/
05:08:25 <JohnTHaller> You're fine. He didn't want to listen. Nor did he even read the linked explanation you posted.
05:10:01 <kAlug> I think this is the perfect entry point: http://code.google.com/p/clementine-player/issues/detail?id=485
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05:10:36 <kAlug> Sorry, need to recharge the notebook again. Will be back soon
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05:10:44 <vf2nsr1> got to put the router on a UPS lol
05:10:55 <sar3th> i like how clementine's "Compiling on Windows" is actually "Cross-compiling for Windows from Ubuntu"
05:12:02 <vf2nsr1> JohnTHaller: you foinf to be on much longer?
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05:12:41 <vf2nsr1> going
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05:16:30 <sar3th> doesn't look like the UPS fixed alot vf2nsr
05:16:44 <vf2nsr> compute ris on ups not router
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05:16:54 <vf2nsr> apparently isp forget that in maine we have snow lol
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05:19:39 <vf2nsr> dang john left too quick oh well hopefully he reads i m
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20:11:35 <GizmoBot> GordCaswell is a PortableApps.com developer. The apps he is working on can be found here: http://portableapps.com/node/26399
20:12:02 <GordCaswell> .seen JohnTHaller
20:12:02 <GizmoBot> GordCaswell: I last saw johnthaller at 2012-02-01 05:08:25 UTC on #portableapps
20:12:06 <GordCaswell> .t
20:12:06 <GizmoBot> Wed, 01 Feb 2012 14:12:06 CST
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20:38:07 <kAlug> GordCaswell: John came here last night (i.e. ~13 hours ago).
20:38:42 <GordCaswell> yeah, i figured from the time stamp, did the mental math back
20:41:34 <kAlug> How are you Gord?
20:41:36 * GordCaswell grumbles "i shouldn't take other peoples work as being done correctly, now i need to fix things"
20:42:26 <GordCaswell> other than that, pretty good.
20:43:05 <kAlug> Ah.
20:43:58 <GordCaswell> yup - needing to do a rev 2 on listary b/c i didn't start -completely- fresh - started with the original launcher.ini, which had some incorrect aspects to it.
20:45:16 <kAlug> Hm. Reminds me to check some of my PAs for updates.
20:45:51 <kAlug> I'll be back to school next week (== less IRC time). Until there, I'll go back to work on that MacGyverism I call "Chromium Portable" (I just realized it's nothing more than a bunch of patches).
20:46:12 <GordCaswell> heh. And yet you keep on working on it, eh?
20:48:16 <kAlug> Yep. I just don't like releasing it. The current release is 17.0.963.12a, yet I'm running 18.0.1010.1 here.
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20:58:52 <kAlug> I wonder how I do remember the version numbers of all my dev tests.
20:59:35 <GordCaswell> that's why i don't change the version numbers of dev test - just my dev test numbers. and there's no way i remember any of them
21:04:38 <kAlug> Well, I also don't remember them exactly, but I can just go to the publisher's website and tell - "This one is outdated".
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21:50:40 <GizmoBot> GordCaswell is a PortableApps.com developer. The apps he is working on can be found here: http://portableapps.com/node/26399
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