IRC Log from 2012-09-09

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02:22:53 <GizmoBot> Bensawsome is from the PortableApps.com forums, likes waffles VERY MUCH, and has a site at http://www.bensawsome.com . He also maintains StatBot and the IRCStats pages @ http://www.bensawsome.com/ircstats
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07:36:21 <freeplane> help
07:36:59 <freeplane> hi, any portable app dev here?
07:37:58 <freeplane> I have questions how to submit a new portable app as a candicate to be included into your suite
07:39:05 <freeplane> nobody hewe, well, see you later
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16:17:02 <OliverK> OllieBot: tell Gizmokid2005 just kick him when you get Gizmobot back
16:17:03 <OllieBot> OliverK: I'll pass that on when Gizmokid2005 is around.
16:32:25 <gluxon> OllieBot!
16:32:26 <OllieBot> gluxon!
16:32:32 <gluxon> Ooo, he's fast.
16:32:36 <OliverK> lol
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21:15:08 <plome> hello. Is there some place development works on portable apps goes? I am looking for a portable app for the processing.org language
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21:20:11 <gluxon> plome: Can you clarify?
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21:20:53 <plome> i'm talking about this: http://processing.org/download/
21:21:13 <plome> is there someone who potentially has already made it a PortableApps app, so I don't waste my time?
21:22:19 <gluxon> You can check the full list of apps in development by going the main page -> Development -> Test Releases
21:22:31 <gluxon> Here's a link to the page -> http://portableapps.com/development/test
21:22:57 <gluxon> Processing.org doesn't seem to have been packaged into the PortableApps.com Format yet.
21:23:07 <plome> ok thx
21:23:54 <plome> what about the source code of PortableApps, is it open source or not?
21:24:49 <gluxon> All our launchers and the Platform are Open Source.
21:25:35 <gluxon> Specifically, the launchers are GPLv3, and written in NSIS with the PortableApps.com Launcher -> http://portableapps.com/apps/development/portableapps.com_launcher
21:26:03 <gluxon> The Platform (or Menu) is written in Delphi. I'm not sure of its license, but I'm pretty sure it is also GPLv3.
21:26:16 <plome> the platform is closed source?
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21:26:32 <gluxon> No. The Platform is open source :)
21:26:55 <plome> i've been using papps for years and I am very happy, but I am concerned if anything changes...
21:26:58 <plome> :P
21:27:01 <plome> ok
21:27:18 <plome> it's good that they are GPLed, great
21:27:30 <gluxon> You can find the link to the Platform source in the Download Details -> http://portableapps.com/download
21:27:47 <gluxon> All the programs we produce here are Open Source :)
21:28:11 <plome> awesome
21:28:30 <gluxon> The platform hasn't ever made a drastic change that users don't like. Either we add it back in as a optional function, or don't change it by default at all.
21:29:30 <plome> works great for me, it's probably my favorite application of all time on windows
21:29:55 <plome> in the past every time I wanted to migrate or work on another system, I had to reinstall it all
21:30:01 <plome> and you never get it quite right
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21:30:22 <dpolivaev> help
21:30:24 <plome> now there is no usb drive or external disk or system of mine I don't have it on
21:30:27 <plome> heh
21:30:29 <plome> :)
21:30:31 <gluxon> :)
21:30:39 <gluxon> Glad to hear it's working. :)
21:30:45 <gluxon> dpolivaev: What's the problem?
21:31:24 <dpolivaev> I submitted a new portable app and get no response from anyone.
21:31:32 <dpolivaev> It is (wait)
21:31:50 <dpolivaev> http://portableapps.com/node/34224
21:32:09 <dpolivaev> so I just would like to ask what is missed,
21:32:40 <gluxon> dpolivaev: You didn't miss anything. To be honest, our release team hasn't been as active as it should.
21:32:46 <plome> but maybe it takes time until people notice or process it?
21:32:54 <gluxon> dpolivaev: I'll do a review now. :)
21:33:00 <dpolivaev> Thanks.
21:33:15 <plome> what would be a good addition to the get more apps features is to include beta/untested portable apps optionally
21:33:26 <gluxon> dpolivaev: In the future, I would just give the thread a bump, and clarify that you would like a review.
21:33:27 <plome> :)
21:33:56 <dpolivaev> My problem is that I do not understand how you basically are working.
21:34:04 <gluxon> plome: It would be a good addition, but I don't think that'll happen. Only one person (the CEO) has access to the database for security reasons.
21:34:19 <gluxon> And having him manually add development releases would consume too much of his time.
21:34:20 <gluxon> :'(
21:34:45 <dpolivaev> It means I do not know what are the right places to post things and what time usually to wait
21:35:00 <plome> maybe a dev db could be added, similar to BSD ports
21:35:19 <plome> so people can optionally support other unoffical dbs
21:35:20 <plome> :P
21:35:33 <plome> i'm full of ideas tonight, I best stop here :)
21:36:16 <gluxon> plome: Suggest it in the forums. :)
21:36:26 <gluxon> I'm afraid I don't control that, but it would be a nice addition.
21:37:18 <dpolivaev> gluxon: what thread do you mean?
21:37:22 <plome> i'm just thinking outloud. thx
21:37:31 <gluxon> dpolivaev: Ok, so what you seem to be using at the moment is a bat file converted to an exe?
21:37:50 <dpolivaev> No. It is not correct.
21:37:51 <gluxon> dpolivaev: By thread, I meant the forum post.
21:38:02 <dpolivaev> The exe is created independently,
21:38:24 <dpolivaev> it also looks for portable java as the first option.
21:38:33 <dpolivaev> The bat file is just for information.
21:38:46 <dpolivaev> And also to be run in a console.
21:38:51 <dpolivaev> Or to be adapted.
21:39:03 <gluxon> Ok, how is freeplanPortable.exe generated?
21:39:23 <gluxon> Or how was it created?
21:39:28 <dpolivaev> From c source code and with mingw
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21:40:02 <gluxon> Ah.
21:40:12 <dpolivaev> The complete source code is available ib te project source page, and I can tell where exactly if necessary.
21:40:26 <dpolivaev> The complete source code is available on the project source page, and I can tell where exactly if necessary.
21:40:51 <gluxon> That's fine. Can you also include the source in FreeplanePortable/Other/Source?
21:41:12 <gluxon> For the next release? That's the folder we commonly look for the source files.
21:41:14 <dpolivaev> Easy. What source? Only the launcher?
21:41:27 <dpolivaev> Or the java code as well?
21:41:43 <dpolivaev> Basically I use an ant build and I can add any stuff
21:42:31 <gluxon> Any code that is needed to regenerate the original executable.
21:43:02 <dpolivaev> The exe?
21:43:20 <gluxon> Yeah.
21:43:32 <dpolivaev> Where should I post when it is done?
21:43:58 <gluxon> dpolivaev: One thing about writing the launcher (freeplanePortable.exe) in C. It might not get approved that way.
21:43:59 <gluxon> http://portableapps.com/apps/development/portableapps.com_launcher
21:44:41 <gluxon> All the official launchers are written with that utility. I understand that it might be frustrating to rewrite code you already worked hard on, but you may or may not be asked to rewrite it.
21:45:22 <dpolivaev> May I ask a question about your launcher?
21:45:27 <gluxon> Yes, go ahead.
21:45:40 <dpolivaev> How does it handle program parameters?
21:46:10 <dpolivaev> Are they passed through even if I add some specific parameters?
21:46:16 <gluxon> Yes.
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21:46:34 <dpolivaev> Are they just added at the end?
21:46:43 <gluxon> Anything that is passed to launchers generated by the PortableApps.com Launcher are also passed to the original executable.
21:46:51 <gluxon> dpolivaev: I believe so.
21:47:31 <dpolivaev> Actually I already wrote a bit of glue code in java to make use of your launcher possible,
21:47:49 <dpolivaev> I just saw no reason to use it as we already have a one doing everything.
21:48:23 <dpolivaev> So if it is your requirement I could do it.
21:48:30 <dpolivaev> I do not understand why:
21:48:45 <dpolivaev> this launcher only does the launching.
21:48:54 <dpolivaev> So what is an advantage of using it for you?
21:49:03 <dpolivaev> The control goes to the program in any case.
21:49:09 <gluxon> It's not *my requirement. It's the PortableApps.com Specification.
21:49:16 <gluxon> I personally disagree with it too.
21:49:31 <gluxon> My own Eclipse Portable isn't using the PortableApps.com Launcher, and I continue to write it in manual NSIS code.
21:50:02 <gluxon> But I'm afraid the specification is set on using the Launcher to allow other developers to easily understand it and modify an exisiting launcher.
21:50:37 <gluxon> dpolivaev: And the PortableApps.com Launcher does a bit more than launcher. It's basically its own INI controlled language pre-written to contain common functions PortableApps would need to run.
21:50:49 <gluxon> Like, registry handling, and settings backup.
21:51:02 <dpolivaev> 1. What do you refer to as "the specification"?
21:51:28 <dpolivaev> 2. If it is mandatory I have to fulfill it. It is no problem.
21:51:29 <gluxon> http://portableapps.com/development/portableapps.com_format
21:51:48 <dpolivaev> 3. In this case I would start with extending launch4j so that it
21:51:59 <dpolivaev> can be called from your launcher
21:52:13 <dpolivaev> and interprete JAVA_HOME set by your launcher
21:52:30 <dpolivaev> because it allows to specidy all other java settings in a nice way.
21:52:44 <dpolivaev> Do you think it is a good idea?
21:53:22 <dpolivaev> To be honest I do not like the way your launcher handles java too much.
21:53:39 <GordCaswell> dpolivaev: is freeplane java-based?
21:54:01 <dpolivaev> Specifying classpath as a command line argument is not really nice.
21:54:32 <dpolivaev> GordCaswell: yes, freeplane like its predecessor freemind are made with java swing
21:55:39 <GordCaswell> Hmm, ok, when I get home this evening, I'll take a look at your dev test, and give my comments then.
21:56:11 <gluxon> dpolivaev: Can I have the link to the source code?
21:56:57 <dpolivaev> https://sourceforge.net/projects/freeplane/files/freeplane%20stable/
21:57:01 <dpolivaev> the last stable,
21:57:19 <dpolivaev> the dev test is currently the last beta
21:57:35 <dpolivaev> https://sourceforge.net/projects/freeplane/files/freeplane%20beta/
21:57:57 <dpolivaev> I just created an extra portable installer with your test splash
21:58:22 <dpolivaev> and put it into https://sourceforge.net/projects/freeplane/files/portable%20apps%20test/
21:58:38 <dpolivaev> but it corresponds to the code of the last beta
21:58:50 <gluxon> Oh.
21:58:51 <dpolivaev> and you can find the sources there
21:59:01 <gluxon> Tell me if I understand this right. Freeplane is actually an app you develop?
21:59:07 <dpolivaev> Yes
21:59:28 <gluxon> Okay, that makes it much easier to have the exception added. (for not using the launcher)
22:00:33 <dpolivaev> It is up to you, I am happy add stuff you need because I want the people can use the program with easy
22:01:03 <dpolivaev> If it is not necessary the less work for me :)
22:01:17 <gluxon> dpolivaev: May I request one thing though. Can freeplanePortable.exe be moved into App\Freeplane?
22:01:28 <gluxon> Or wait.
22:01:41 <dpolivaev> yes, sure
22:01:52 <gluxon> Before you do that, I'll ask the CEO here.
22:02:22 <gluxon> Until then, I'm assuming Freeplane Portable has been tested to not write any settings to the host PC?
22:03:19 <dpolivaev> I have not performed such tests using stuff like file monitor.
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22:03:44 <dpolivaev> Freeplane saves all user specific configuration files in a directory
22:03:56 <dpolivaev> and this directory can be set as java define
22:04:39 <dpolivaev> The portable version sets it inside the portableapp part
22:04:49 <dpolivaev> I can look at the code to tell you where exectly
22:04:54 <dpolivaev> exactly
22:05:01 <gluxon> Great. I'll do a file monitor and registry test when I'm on Windows (I'm currently using Linux).
22:06:12 <dpolivaev> const char *argv[] = {"\"-Duser.home=", pathToPortableApp, "Data\"", 0};
22:06:35 <dpolivaev> const char *argv[] = {"\"-Dorg.freeplane.userfpdir=", pathToPortableApp, "Data\\Freeplane\"", 0};
22:06:46 <gluxon> dpolivaev: Actually, I do have another question.
22:07:02 <gluxon> Does freeplanePortable.exe require Java to run? If so, can it report missing Java?
22:08:00 <dpolivaev> 1. yes, it requires java, and looks for it on the portable
22:08:26 <dpolivaev> 2. No, if no java is found there is no diagnostic messages for now.
22:09:06 <dpolivaev> The same is valid for the windows launcher, and
22:09:10 <gluxon> For the official release, it will have to have a diagnostic message saying there's no Java.
22:09:52 <dpolivaev> No problem. If we keep in touch I shall change things to satisfy your needs.
22:10:03 <gluxon> dpolivaev: Great. Thanks for your work :)
22:10:25 <dpolivaev> You are welcome.
22:10:45 <dpolivaev> I just do not know what communication channel to use:
22:11:07 <dpolivaev> Should I use chat, mail or some thread ?
22:11:32 <gluxon> We usually don't use email. Communication mostly happens here or in the thread (forum post).
22:11:33 <AluisioASG> gluxon: PM?
22:11:45 <gluxon> AluisioASG: Sure.
22:12:00 <dpolivaev> gluxon: I have not got no response for more than a week.
22:12:28 <dpolivaev> What forum is the right one?
22:13:00 <gluxon> dpolivaev: Yes, I apologize for that. The release team has been inactive lately. Just add a comment to your forum post saying you would like a review.
22:13:08 <dpolivaev> Or may I use chat again?
22:13:13 <gluxon> Yes, or here :)
22:13:56 <dpolivaev> Do you mean the http://portableapps.com/node/34224
22:14:06 <dpolivaev> Should I add comments to this node?
22:14:16 <dpolivaev> (it is your beta testing forum)
22:14:50 <gluxon> dpolivaev: Yeah. Adding a comment to any thread will bump it back up to the top.
22:14:59 <gluxon> Top the the tracker list http://portableapps.com/tracker
22:15:21 <dpolivaev> Fine. I see.
22:15:21 <gluxon> Most of us use that to view recent threads, and it'll catch our attention that it we missed reviewing it.
22:16:03 <dpolivaev> Do you like my idea to extend launch4j and to use your launcher to run it to run java?
22:16:14 <dpolivaev> I propose it because
22:16:41 <dpolivaev> I had to change things just to move freeplanePortable to the Freeplane/App and to add java diagnostics.
22:16:54 <dpolivaev> So it is actually the same effort.
22:17:02 <dpolivaev> I already looked into the code there.
22:17:29 <dpolivaev> And this would make launch4j conpatible with your launcher.
22:17:50 <dpolivaev> (sure I do not know if they accept the patch but it actually does not matter for me.)
22:18:04 <gluxon> I think retaining compatibility is a good thing. And it seems to make it more native (or efficient) in the process.
22:18:42 <dpolivaev> Cu rrently launch4j looks for java either in the registry or it lets to embed java into the exe.
22:19:07 <dpolivaev> Here we need the third option to read java from some environment variable.
22:19:27 <dpolivaev> I suppose once it is given they can work together in a chain
22:19:57 <dpolivaev> Certainly I takes me some time to do it. And it changes only the launching process,
22:20:12 <dpolivaev> but for the user nothing changes from now.
22:20:34 <dpolivaev> So you do not need to wait until I do the changes in order to test the app if you like to.
22:21:19 <dpolivaev> Well, thank you for your time. I am glad you are interested and responsive too :)
22:21:34 <dpolivaev> I shall post after I finish my part.
22:22:14 <dpolivaev> I think in this month but not this week as I have some other things to care for too.
22:22:45 <gluxon> Great. :)
22:23:38 <dpolivaev> Fine.
22:23:53 <dpolivaev> Have a good day/night.
22:24:02 <dpolivaev> Actually where are you located ?
22:24:30 <dpolivaev> I am in Munich (Germany) and it is pretty late here now
22:26:30 <gluxon> I'm in Farmington, CT.
22:26:42 <gluxon> Connecticut, USA
22:26:51 <gluxon> 6:26pm Sunday (EDT) - Time in Farmington, CT
22:27:07 <gluxon> The people in the project are pretty scattered around the world though.
22:27:11 <gluxon> *this project
22:27:34 <gluxon> Well, I do have to go myself now. Again, thanks for your work :)
22:27:36 <dpolivaev> Well. have a good evening. Nice to meet you. See you later.
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