IRC Log from 2013-08-28

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02:24:34 <GordCaswell> hi JohnTHaller, ZachThibeau, Gizmokid2005 et al.
02:24:42 <ZachThibeau> hey Gord
02:24:46 <JohnTHaller> hola
02:26:07 <GordCaswell> might not have too much time to put towards pa.c in the next few days, John - my dad had a heart attack last night, so i'm a bit out of it & going to be away from the comp mosto f the time too.
02:26:40 <GordCaswell> I'll do what i can, though.
02:27:06 <JohnTHaller> Oh wow. Don't worry about it at all. Is he going to be ok? How are you doing?
02:28:15 <GordCaswell> well, he's now had 5 stents put in, over a period of 3 procedures over the day, and is sleeping now. i'll hear more in the morning. Seemed ok when i saw him this afternoon, but that was before he got the last 3 stents put in.
02:29:04 <JohnTHaller> Stents can do wonders. Helped a few relatives out. You feel like talking about it, need a distraction, or rather have some time to yourself?
02:29:13 <GordCaswell> meh, i'm getting by. called my work and took compassionate leave rather than try to go in and do a half-ass job - in my field, i'd rather not chance it.
02:29:56 <GordCaswell> heh...trying to distract myself now...on here for that purpose lol
02:33:09 <JohnTHaller> Well, I don't have much distracting news. Carbide is back in stock. Working on debuting a 3rd drive (inexpensive USB2 but strong enough for a keychain and available up to 128GB).
02:37:01 <GordCaswell> so...thoughts from you guys: John, when I mentioned a funding idea, i was thinking of something similar to the sponsors thing, but more kickstarterish, with "prizes". My thought was to have your basic low-cost "thanks for helping" level, with no prize, followed by a few levels which include the PA.c companion in all colors and sizes, including various shipping prices as appropriate, as well as a profit margin to go towards the funding dr
02:37:01 <GordCaswell> ive itself, followed by the carbide, same thing, and potentially the third drive you mentioned. For an extravagant price, or not so extravagant, we could have a "Interview/Lunch/Whatever with JTH" prize, wherein the donor gets to NYC and is responsible for their own accomodations, but get an exclusive with you on plans, history, whatever you want to share. My thought is having something tangible may entice more people to donate. That and
02:37:02 <GordCaswell> having a thermometer or otherway of tracking donations towards a set goal.
02:37:42 <GordCaswell> Nice...I'll be sorely tempted...without torrents, my drive is pushing the 64GB mark as is, so bigger is better. With torrents, i'm almost at 500....lol
02:39:00 <JohnTHaller> GordCaswell: Those sound like good ideas. The issue with using kickstarter and indiegogo is that they have to be for something specific. Not just 'funding an ongoing project'. So we could do it around something in particular, like if we decide to build our own high end drive from scratch
02:39:31 <JohnTHaller> GordCaswell: Yeah, We're thinking of this being a basic workhorse drive. I've had the casing on my keyring for a month testing it out.
02:42:21 <GordCaswell> JohnTHaller:, yep, that's why i was thinking we not do it through kickstarter etc, but rather independently like we did with the sponsorship drive. The downside, of course, being the lack of exposure on that type of site, but i think we might do ok. that's part of the "fleshing out" i'm still trying to work out :)
02:46:35 <GordCaswell> specifically, how to massage paypal and/or wepay to pass along the amount donated...although it may be possible to capture that amount in a step prior to payment... *muses*
02:47:01 <JohnTHaller> WePay has a built-in 'fundraising' component with a thermometer it can generate
02:47:41 <JohnTHaller> Downside to WePay is that it embeds the donation form right in the page. So while the form loaded by an iframe is HTTPS, it's sitting in the middle of our HTTP only donation page.
02:47:46 <GordCaswell> ooo....i like!
02:47:57 <GordCaswell> ew,, not so much
02:48:02 <JohnTHaller> Yeah.
02:48:32 <JohnTHaller> So, we'd need an SSL cert first. And then either figuring out how to do specific pages as SSL on a Drupal site vs not. Or building a static page and serving that up as the donation page.
02:58:11 <GordCaswell> This looks like it'd be sufficient. I'd be willing to drop the cash on it when we're ready for it. https://www.positivessl.com/ssl-certificate-positivessl.php
02:59:15 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, they're relatively cheap now. Installing is another issue as our server is a bit out of date. Had to restrict the admin as it's barely supported anymore. Long overdue for an upgrade.
03:06:07 <GordCaswell> heh. sounds like this could be a multi-step process
03:06:29 <JohnTHaller> Yeah. Been investigating cloud hosting that supports larger sized loads.
03:07:03 <JohnTHaller> Be nice to switch from ther $1,000/mo dedicated box.
03:07:52 <JohnTHaller> I'm also doing a bit of work with SourceForge to possibly raise some additional funds. May wind up helping them make their devshare program a bit more transparent and open source.
03:08:13 <JohnTHaller> That's the offer-based installer that FileZilla is using now that lots of folks are... unhappy... with.
03:08:48 <GordCaswell> no kidding... $1000/mth...no wonder it's hurting you
03:08:55 <GordCaswell> sweet
03:10:06 <JohnTHaller> Base for the dedicated box is $1,000 a month. Base for the CDN for our images and freeware downloads is $79/mo and then $49/TB. Base for our cloud hosting account at RackSpace is $100/mo.
03:10:53 * GordCaswell goes and checks it out
03:11:16 <GordCaswell> ew...me no likey...please help fix it if you can!!
03:11:20 <JohnTHaller> Cloud hosting is the backup for the CDN freeware downloads if it hasn't hit a specific mirror yet. Installer falls back automatically from one to the other (uTorrent). Platform updater will do the same shortly. Then we won't have the 24hr mirror time for freeware
03:12:37 <JohnTHaller> Yeah. Offers are a way of life, unfortunately, as ad revenue is falling and they still have to pay the bills. This also lets open source projects raise more revenue. But, there are some big negatives to the current approach:
03:13:52 <JohnTHaller> 1. You don't get the installer you're expecting. 2. It's a downloader that only downloads the app you want after the offer 3. It gets admin rights immediately when making the offer (which can be uncomfortable). 4. It's closed source. 5. It won't work with command line, OS integration, etc
03:14:49 <GordCaswell> nice. So the big cost is the dedicated box then...there's got to be some way to bring that down.
03:14:52 <JohnTHaller> I was already working on a basic Windows installer for some projects to make use of (Angry IP Scanner is now using a very early version I custom built as an example for SF), so I may use what I learned to help SF make things better.
03:15:28 <JohnTHaller> Correct. But it's a busy site. Previous shared hosting (years ago) did not go well. But more modern VPS or slice models might.
03:15:37 <GordCaswell> RE: Installer - yeah, i noted the admin rights, and was questioning the rationale for it.
03:16:13 <JohnTHaller> So, we wouldn't be doing offers for PA.c and would still have a rule against offers in PA.c Installers, but I might be able to help make it better for other open source projects and SourceForge and raise us a bit of funds at the same time.
03:17:18 <JohnTHaller> Angry IP is using the basic one I did for their new Windows installer as of yesterday I believe. Basic. Install, create shortcut, create uninstaller, create uninstaller entry, and includes both 32 and 64-bit and installs the appropriate one in the appropriate location for the current PC. GPL licensed, of course.
03:17:34 <GordCaswell> Naturally
03:18:04 <JohnTHaller> Even gave them a quick batch file and NSISPortable in a ZIP so they can build a new one with one double-click. Single config.nsh to edit version number, name, etc.
03:18:34 <GordCaswell> I'm glad to hear that...I dread to think of what adding offers to PA.c Installers would do to our downloads, even though the extra potential cash flow wouldn't hurt.
03:18:39 <JohnTHaller> Did some updated custom graphics I'm working on for NSIS upstream as well. Early version of the icon in it.
03:20:23 <GordCaswell> pushing to both NSIS and NSISu?
03:20:41 <JohnTHaller> It could mean a lot of money. The major ones promise up to $1 to $1.50 per install. Although from what I hear from others around $0.30 is more accurate (unless you go the multiple offer route). And rates are maybe 25-30% in a standard config (higher if you go the download.com shady tricky route)
03:22:33 <JohnTHaller> Even going the best (for the user) route, 1 million downloads a month could add up quickly in terms of revenue. And the shady route would be a LOT of money. So, I understand the temptation for publishers. But it's just not fair to users. I don't like it. And doing a closed source offer installer in an open source project is just... no.
03:23:09 <JohnTHaller> Lemme know what you think of the Angry IP Installer: https://sourceforge.net/projects/ipscan/files/latest/download?source=dlp
03:24:53 <JohnTHaller> Gonna run for a few and spend time with my girlfriend. Will continue reading when I get back. Feel free to email as well.
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03:57:30 <GordCaswell> A couple thoughts - 1. Requires admin rights. I assume that's because the app itself requires them, though, so not a concern. 2. Not digitally signed. I assume that's because the publisher doesn't have a certificate, not a huge deal either. 3. It feels very much like the PAI. I suspect that was intentional? 4. The uninstaller doesn't have a box showing what's being unstalled. This can be enabled by adding the ShowUninstDetails attribute.
03:57:30 <GordCaswell> See here: http://nsis.sourceforge.net/Docs/Chapter4.html#4.8.1.35 If this is meant ot be base for the devpay platform, I suspect there's somekind of SF image you could use for the background image, making it look more like it came from them.
04:29:51 <JohnTHaller1> And back
04:31:28 <JohnTHaller1> 1. Any proper 'install' on Windows requires admin rights. They have standalone versions, too (though I don't know if they are portable). 2. That's up to the publisher. I don't think they have a cert. 3. It's NSIS, so it'll feel the same. 4. It does on my system. What do you mean?
04:31:38 *** JohnTHaller1 is now known as JohnTHaller
04:32:48 <JohnTHaller> 4. Oh, ok, I see what you mean. I left it as the default. I'm going to refine the install process to only show details in the details window, too, ala PAI.
04:33:15 <JohnTHaller> This was my basic one I was working on any way. Not sure what kind of branding the SF one will have.
04:34:48 <GordCaswell> 1-3:Yep, that's what i figured. As far as branding, that's along the lines i thought as well.
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04:36:13 <JohnTHaller> I deviated from standard NSIS by choosing the orange branding images and customizing them for Angry IP. I switched the header image to right by default (looks better imho). I did a custom footer text. And I did a custom installer icon based on a public domain SVG that I then worked on in Inkscape to look more like NSIS orange (since it's default maxes at either 32 or 48)
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04:40:18 <GordCaswell> Yeah, ok, I see what you mean. That looks great for this app.
04:41:23 <JohnTHaller> I may re-do the orange wizard and welcomefinish BMPS for NSIS itself and submit them upstream and as a patch, too, based on this same icon.
04:43:27 <GordCaswell> having more options upstream is always nice, i'm sure they'd appreciate it.
04:43:53 <JohnTHaller> They're doing a 3.0 ALPHA of NSIS proper now. Think it's supposed to succeed NSIS 2 and NSIS Unicode.
04:54:01 <GordCaswell> sounds like we may be able to do away with getting a third party nsisU...nice!
04:55:05 <GordCaswell> Well, i'm gonna hit the sack. be back sometime tomorrow.
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08:54:30 <pa_1069> can i have help? i installed some portable apps before i installed the portable apps explorer. is there any way to get them recognized?
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19:04:44 <Guest28738> hi everyone...i was wondering if someone would be able to help me please?
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19:12:45 <pa_7508> yo whats thaller
19:12:57 <pa_7508> wassup
19:13:07 <pa_7508> Thaller is what I was trying to sayy...
19:13:16 <pa_7508> keyboards a little jacked - sorry
19:13:36 *** JohnTHaller1 is now known as JohnTHaller
19:13:37 <pa_7508> here's my question
19:13:37 <JohnTHaller> hello
19:14:17 <pa_7508> I liked the other JohnTHaller better
19:14:27 <pa_7508> thaller1
19:14:32 <pa_7508> ok, heres the deal
19:14:40 <pa_7508> been using the app
19:14:42 <pa_7508> love it
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19:14:54 <JohnTHaller1> Sorry, disconnected... just a sec
19:15:04 <pa_7508> tried a bunch of different programs
19:15:25 <pa_7508> don't want to delete any - ya know; might need em some day; and they're free
19:15:47 <pa_7508> but i find myself using multiple versions on various computers
19:15:54 <pa_7508> which defeats the purpose -
19:16:25 <pa_7508> can you split and merge 2 seperate app launchers?
19:17:37 <pa_7508> haaahaaaa
19:17:42 <pa_7508> swwwet
19:17:45 <JohnTHaller1> sorrry
19:17:52 <JohnTHaller1> connection issue. resolving...
19:17:55 <pa_7508> Thaller1 is back
19:18:13 <pa_7508> don't you have an app for that?
19:18:16 <JohnTHaller1> I missed the first part of what you'd asked. Do you have two portable apps setups?
19:18:21 <pa_7508> couldn't resist
19:18:26 <pa_7508> 3
19:18:43 <pa_7508> can't get too much of a good thing
19:19:07 *** JohnTHaller1 is now known as JohnTHaller
19:19:13 <JohnTHaller> There we go
19:19:44 <Guest28738> everytime i try to download and install apps it takes forever to get like 4 done done but never progresses beyond that...what should i do ?
19:19:57 <pa_7508> hey it's not urgent - if you're slammed or have issues - or are just trying to squeeze a couple lines of code in on the side - i'll be around later
19:20:48 <pa_7508> it's been doing that same thing to me for last couple days. must be a glitch on their system.
19:20:56 <pa_7508> thought it was my pc
19:21:21 <JohnTHaller> Which apps?
19:21:27 <Guest28738> any of them
19:21:30 <pa_7508> All/any
19:21:39 <JohnTHaller> What do you mean it stops?
19:22:24 <pa_7508> as soon as you statrt getting about 3-4 apps into the install progress meter - it chokes - and nothing ever gets spit out after that...
19:22:56 <JohnTHaller> Does it die during a specific app?
19:23:07 <Guest28738> no
19:23:50 <JohnTHaller> Keep in mind, these apps are hosted in multiple locations (SF PA.c project, SF Inkscape, other SF, document foundation, freeware publisher sites, our freeware hosting, etc) that have nothing in common with each other most of which are outside of our control.
19:23:54 <pa_7508> no it's going alphabeticallyh
19:24:17 <Guest28738> i had tried it at work and i thought it was their system and then tried it at home and it does the exact same thing
19:24:19 <JohnTHaller> I'm aware, but what I'm asking is what app it is stopping on. And is it stopping part way through the download. And is an error message popping up.
19:25:35 <Guest28738> mine doesn't show an error msg it's just forever trying to download
19:25:52 <pa_7508> m88-203-642 join my teamviewer - I'll show you
19:25:59 <pa_7508> m88-203-642
19:26:14 <pa_7508> that guest can come also - not sure if they see my messages
19:26:30 <JohnTHaller> Just a screenshot is fine.
19:26:38 <JohnTHaller> imgur.com can host
19:26:40 <Guest28738> i have no idea how to do that but thank you
19:26:57 <JohnTHaller> PRTSCR button on the keyboard then paste in any image editor
19:27:05 <JohnTHaller> Oh, you meant teamviewer. nevermind.
19:28:07 <pa_7508> dude, download the teamviewer app - (from your site) and plug in that code I gave yo
19:28:16 <pa_7508> you gotta see it.
19:28:34 <pa_7508> i've had it happen 3-4 times in last 48 hours
19:28:38 <JohnTHaller> I prefer not to connect to random folks via TeamViewer while I'm troubleshooting network connections.
19:29:57 <pa_7508> you know what - its understandable - this is related to your network troubles - fix that - and I'll be you everything will start working properly again.
19:30:05 <pa_7508> are you the only guy there today?
19:30:33 <JohnTHaller> I'm working from home. With a mildly flakey couple of routers. Likely going to buy a new one today. So very disposable.
19:31:04 <pa_7508> Oh hey what's room - I ddin't see all you quiet kids in the back - screen was covering it.
19:32:26 <pa_7508> Hey are you one of founders?
19:32:37 <JohnTHaller> I founded PA.c, yes.
19:32:48 <pa_7508> SWEET
19:33:08 <pa_7508> NICE EXECUTION BROTHER. GREAT VISION.
19:33:16 <JohnTHaller> I wrote all the code in the updater/app store downloader, too, which is why I was trying to help troubleshoot.
19:33:20 <JohnTHaller> Thanks
19:33:55 <pa_7508> yeah, I'm sure you'll always be ready to roll up your sleeves when it squeeks.
19:34:39 <pa_7508> You shouldn't be having bandwidth issues though?? How come your stuffs hosted on a cloud from amazon or whatever?
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19:36:02 <JohnTHaller> Our stuff is all over the place. SourceForge hosts most of our open source apps as they host for free. And they use a global network of donated server space. Our freeware apps that we host ourselves, we host on a paid mirror network. And then lots of publishers self-host (LibreOffice, TeamViewer, etc)
19:36:21 <JohnTHaller> If we paid to host all of it, I'd be more broke than I am now. We push about a petabyte of downloads a year.
19:36:34 <pa_7508> I realize this isn't the best time for you; however - AAAhhh. that makes sense.
19:38:28 <pa_7508> what does your program do when it's downloading say 20 apps; going alphabetically (I noticed) and like with me - somebody with an app name that starts with an E or F has a crappy connect? Does it move thread out or stay in linear fashion?
19:38:49 <pa_7508> Glad to hear broke.
19:40:22 <pa_7508> I was actually only contacting you today - because I felt compelled - to help your team get off that launchpad -
19:40:42 <pa_7508> and aim for the stars.
19:41:53 <pa_7508> I'm a tech entrapanure - I started www.travelnow.com in 1995 - It was the first hotel reservations company online; then eventually sold to our friends at hotel.com
19:42:12 <pa_7508> you guys (appear) to be right on that cusp -
19:42:34 <pa_7508> great idea; worked hard; FINALLY peolpe are starting to notice -
19:42:59 <JohnTHaller> The downloader is currently linear and has no suspend feature or detection of slowness. It uses a pre-built component for downloads that doesn't support the latter.
19:43:59 <pa_7508> and you're sweating in texas; still working every job in the building - nights; weekends; wondering .... why the fuck am I still not rich??
19:44:00 <JohnTHaller> We'll likely switch to async with a monitor when it's incorporated into the platform proper.
19:44:06 <pa_7508> can I help you ?
19:44:11 <JohnTHaller> I'm in NYC.
19:44:19 <JohnTHaller> And it's raining and mid-70s.
19:44:22 <JohnTHaller> Otherwise, yes :)
19:44:36 <pa_7508> lol
19:44:55 <pa_7508> how old are you?
19:45:47 <JohnTHaller> I don't usually give that info out, though it's not exactly a secret.
19:46:22 <pa_7508> I"m 41; male, San Diego. There you have it.
19:46:35 <pa_7508> You don't have to tell me;
19:47:31 <JohnTHaller> When did you move out to SD?
19:47:36 <pa_7508> I would like to speak with you if you do have any interest in investment from the outside
19:47:48 <pa_7508> 2001
19:48:35 <JohnTHaller> you can reach me directly via the business email address and phone on the site today: http://portableapps.com/about/contact
19:48:59 <pa_7508> I was from Missouri - but down in Austin for college (tech and entrapanurship programs @ UT was what led me there).
19:49:30 <JohnTHaller> Yeah, saw that TravelNow was based there.
19:49:47 <pa_7508> That was 1994. I dropped out the next year (finance and computer science - 3rd year) after seeing the WWW for the first time
19:50:20 <pa_7508> and decding school could wait. We registered in march 95. the .com was about the 20,000th domain registered..
19:51:47 <pa_7508> You're sitting on a goldmine
19:51:54 <JohnTHaller> I wrote my senior final in CS on how the internet was going to change society (ordering from restaurants, banking, travel, etc) in 1996.
19:52:36 <pa_7508> the change is upon us again..
19:53:06 <JohnTHaller> There are some really good things that can be done with the PA.c tech.
19:53:19 <pa_7508> this shift from central search into social recommendation is really having some impact
19:53:29 <pa_7508> seo won't cut it for the next phase
19:54:58 <JohnTHaller> I used to do organic (legitimate) SEO way back in the day. Social recommendation is bigger than most people give it credit for now and only going to grow. But it will be a bit segregated into silos of the difference social sites. It is now, which is why so many people miss the overall impact.
19:55:12 <pa_7508> dude I HEAR you; I've been wanting to contact you for weeks; but just continued to do my homework and observe..thinking - they could do this; that, a little tweak over there.. and really polish up wihat you've got...
19:55:20 <pa_7508> BUT big deal
19:55:26 <pa_7508> that's yesterdays news
19:55:45 <pa_7508> and with some money anybody could give it new paint and wheels...
19:56:15 <JohnTHaller> It's already getting new paint and new wheels in the next release. As is the site. But I have bigger plans for it.
19:56:45 <pa_7508> but the exciting thing ... is what you're not doing yet... the things nobody is doing yet. - the things you'll be best positioned to do - before most people even understand WTF
19:57:30 <pa_7508> the things Im sure YOU can't wait to do - REAL INNOVATIVE NEW THINGS. Am I right?
19:57:57 <JohnTHaller> Social recommendation is a big part of our next phase. As is cloud and local. It's a minor pivot from the straight portable play, but a natural progression.
19:58:33 <pa_7508> A good paint job; and you're worth 10-25M. That only takes a month (if that)
19:59:44 <JohnTHaller> And the right connections. I have a few (which comes from my previous life of building online business applications for folks connected to VC and PE conferences and courses), but am working on gaining more.
19:59:53 <pa_7508> If you had unlimited resources to command a staff of chindians to go full bore 24 hours a day on rewriting the site from the ground up...and spent $1M doing it - you'd be worth double that.
20:01:43 <JohnTHaller> Rather than working from scratch, you'd be amazed what you can accomplish with 1/2 that money, using a solid open source base like Drupal, some exprerienced open source developers (who also work for money in addition to just scratching an itch) and be able to build out peer reviewed plugins that are applicable to other sites.
20:01:48 <pa_7508> We share a common connection - I see the technologies, they players, the industries , veritcals trends and changes..
20:02:07 <JohnTHaller> Even if said plugins can only be used to the fullest potential on a big community site with lots of great offerings like ours.
20:02:26 <pa_7508> and see out a little further than most -and love the problem solvng - I love "getting it" first.
20:03:21 <pa_7508> no I wouldn't be surprised at all.. And you're right -
20:03:30 <JohnTHaller> 'getting it' is that wonderful first phase. but I've seen too many people stuck in that phase and fall down on implementation. some don't want to do the work. others are afraid of failing and polluting their pure idea
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20:03:34 <pa_7508> Done damn near for free...
20:04:08 <pa_7508> but that's not what investors WANT to hear.
20:04:48 <pa_7508> If you're not asking for $10M; you're not thinking big enough to be worth their time...
20:05:40 <JohnTHaller> The fact that I could do that for 1/2M doesn't mean that's what I'd ask for.
20:05:44 <pa_7508> Too many other opportunties out there for them to put $25M down on someone who says they have a use for it - a NEED for it.
20:06:02 <pa_7508> I get it. And I know you do too...
20:06:49 <JohnTHaller> Let's have a phone chat
20:07:33 <pa_7508> The big up front cash investments - is a headliner big bet on the new rising star - and it creates a barrier to entry for everyone that has to come after you....
20:07:52 <JohnTHaller> Also true
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20:09:03 <pa_7508> the more you get;: the more you force the other guys (copycats) to have to get... because how are they going to keep up with you.. if they only ask for $1/2 million to get the job done - and you've got $15M in the Bank -
20:09:46 <pa_7508> makes it tough.. draws a line in the sand . Says - Big Boys Only - From hear on out. Because I Said so.
20:10:06 <JohnTHaller> Because then they've got done what you have done. But you have a headstart and 14.5 ready to move to the next phase. and the next. and build base. and connections.
20:10:39 <pa_7508> THATS RIGHT. Thats what the additional money is for!
20:11:01 <pa_7508> More money is actually less of a risk in situations like this...
20:11:18 <JohnTHaller> People thinking about next week when they should be thinking about the next year and a half.
20:11:35 <pa_7508> The investor stands a better chance of your success if he can be certain you will be here in 3 years - regardless.
20:12:33 <pa_7508> Are you turning any revenues at alll?
20:13:56 <pa_7508> Man I"'m so stoked from the vision I had today - dude; I KNOW how to BLOW THAT THING UP WITH TRAFFIC
20:14:05 <JohnTHaller> A small amount of revenue through drive sales, on-site advertising, sponsored download buttons. And that's before we go after corp sales for the drives and branded platform with corp features.
20:15:04 <pa_7508> If you don't have somone already in charge of that and handling it.
20:15:18 <pa_7508> Please; let me volunteer..
20:16:07 <JohnTHaller> Give me a buzz and we'll chat: 646-289-5002 x 1
20:17:44 <pa_7508> k; jeez; um - I'll call you in 10; but will have to go at 1:45 PST; but will be available again later.
20:18:44 <JohnTHaller> Not a problem. Chat with you soon.
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